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POLL: Who wrote the 'Pink Letter'?


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^The reason given, tho it does not make sense to me, is that Mance would perfectly predict Jons actions, accept that he would not predict the mutiny, and would expect Jon to come south with a wildling army that he would then retake command of. This theory ignores the fact that Mance would then believe his son to be a hostage of the NW, and does not explain how Mance could perfectly predict Jons behavior but not that of the other rangers.


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I would think Mance would predict Jon wouldn't march south. He knows Jon takes the vows seriously and as a former NW member he knows they would (probably) preclude Jon from coming south... or at least that it wouldn't be a sure bet. You could argue that Mance intended for Jon to send Tormund south though.

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But what is the payoff for Mance? He gets his wildling army of a few thousand. So what? We all know how Northmen feel about Wildlings. Mance doing that would only serve to unite the Northmen against him - he would be stuck in the north surrounded by enemies. Furthermore, how does Mance know Tormund is at CB? Mance leaves on his mission before Jon sends Val to find Tormund.



Ramsay still has the best motivation as I see it. With Jeyne's escape and her likely destination being The Wall where Jon can confirm that she is not Arya poses a serious threat to the Boltons. The Boltons hold on the north is tenuous at best and attacking the NW might not receive support from the other northern lords. So Ramsay sends a letter provoking Jon and threatening the NW in the hope that Jon will march south and thus Ramsay now has a pretense (deserting and oathbreaking) for engaging in a battle with Jon. This is also why the letter was not signed by the other northen lords - Ramsay does not want them to know that he set the whole thing up.


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I think it was Mance, with assistance from Theon



All signs point to Ramsay, but he doesn't really strike me as the type that would leave his calling card (skin patch) out of such an important letter to an enemy. Also Mance Rayder is the only one referred to by their true name, and the term "black crows" is used, which to my knowledge is a wildling term. The term "my Reek" is something only someone close with Ramsay would have known, which is why I think Theon was involved

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That depends on a number of factors. Was this sent before or after Stannis attacked Ramsay's forces? Was Stannis trying to think of a way to get Jon down to Winterfell? Did Mance go poking around the crypts and find something very, very interesting in the tomb of requirement and decide Jon needed to see it too?

It would take Jon a good month or 2 to get down to Winterfell, by then the battle would be over, one way or another. If Mance wanted Jon to see the crypts there are easier ways. Ramsay is the only one who has the motive to send the letter.

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I'm going to go way out on a limb and say Theon. :leaving:

I was thinking this too.

:thumbsup: Glad to see I'm not the only one!

The Stannis theory depends on input from Theon. (I want my bride. I want my Reek.) However, as Theon is Stannis' captive, I don't think he's in a position to write the letter and send a raven without his captor's knowledge/permission/instruction.

Stannis has the means, opportunity, and unlike the other candidates he has clearly stated his motive several times in ASoS and ADwD. He wants Jon as Lord of Winterfell to rally the North to his cause. Jon has refused the offer several times, but Stannis is not adverse to trying a different hawk if need be. Readers who think the letter is too out of character for Stannis are seriously misreading his character.

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Sorry if I sound like a dick I'm not trying to but, why would it be mance?

Only the Wildlings refer to the members of the Night's Watch as crows. Also Ramsay has an aversion to the word bastard, so him using it so much seems rather incongruous.

Here's an idea that doesn't get a lot of discussion...what if Roose sent the letter?

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It would take Jon a good month or 2 to get down to Winterfell, by then the battle would be over, one way or another. If Mance wanted Jon to see the crypts there are easier ways. Ramsay is the only one who has the motive to send the letter.

So Ramsay is just predicting his own win? I suppose he would do that.

Yeah right. Getting a Stark to go back on his word (except for Robb) is not remotely easy. The only way to get the better of one of them is deception. Look how well it worked for Littlefinger.

The Stannis theory depends on input from Theon. (I want my bride. I want my Reek.) However, as Theon is Stannis' captive, I don't think he's in a position to write the letter and send a raven without his captor's knowledge/permission/instruction.

Stannis has the means, opportunity, and unlike the other candidates he has clearly stated his motive several times in ASoS and ADwD. He wants Jon as Lord of Winterfell to rally the North to his cause. Jon has refused the offer several times, but Stannis is not adverse to trying a different hawk if need be. Readers who think the letter is too out of character for Stannis are seriously misreading his character.

Very interesting points.

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Stannis has the means, opportunity, and unlike the other candidates he has clearly stated his motive several times in ASoS and ADwD. He wants Jon as Lord of Winterfell to rally the North to his cause. Jon has refused the offer several times, but Stannis is not adverse to trying a different hawk if need be. Readers who think the letter is too out of character for Stannis are seriously misreading his character.

If Stannis' goal is to install Jon as Lord of Winterfell and thus rally the Northmen to his cause, sending an inflammatory letter to decieve Jon seems counterproductive to that goal. As you say, Jon has already rejected his offer. I don't think that deceiving Jon into deserting the NW is going to get Jon -- or the North -- in Stannis' corner.

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There's rather a large difference between GROWING UP at Castle Black and being shipped there as a teenager/adult. Young Mance had time on his hands. The new recruits don't.

As someone pointed out, Aemon's own steward didn't know how to read and write. It's a rare skill to have and we have zero evidence that Mance knew how to read/write. And you've conveniently ignored the bit about the knowledge on sending the ravens. It's not a common knowledge even with educated people let alone a random guy in the NW.

Nice how you just ignored motivation number one there.

I ignored it because it was ridiculous. It's fairly obvious that whoever wrote the letter wanted to provoke Jon into coming to WF. Why would Mance want to get Jon to Winterfell? That's the question that needs answering. That's the motive.

You really think Mance hasn't heard any of the Queen's Men talking about the beautiful "wildling princess?" Come on. That's silly. Knowing she isn't one is not the same as "wouldn't call her" one. Remember if Mance wrote the letter he's actively trying to sound like someone else.

Hearing it doesn't mean he's going to use it in the letter. Are you telling me he's so perfect at copying someone that he can actively think how Ramsay might be thinking? If Mance himself was writing the letter he has no need to mention Val. It adds nothing to the letter. On the flip side, Stannis and by extension Ramsay would attach value to a princess and naturally mention her.

Half the Night's Watch are not sent on rangings either. No ranging party goes out without an experienced man in the group, and all of those with a decent amount of experience know Mance. The people at Winterfell don't know who Mance is. They have no reason to "hunt" for a singer. Remember, if Mance wrote the letter, all those parts about him are total fabrication.

It's not rocket science for the people at WF to be looking for a singer who came with the spearwives. The same spearwives who helped Arya and Theon escape and spent time with Mance. He was going to be an active target.

What connection to Bloodraven? *shakes head* Yet another person missing the obvious. Ravens. Smoke and scarlet. Leaving the Night's Watch yet still looking out for the good of the realm. Leadership and fighting ability. Intelligence and ability to strategize that puts most Westerosi military men to shame. Not to mention all the other Targ-like traits Mance has that get him accused of being Rhaegar in disguise. And we have that lovely plot element of a promising young NW brother being ordered by a senior member to desert temporarily that may post-shadow a similar earlier event, much the same way that Jon's baby swap post-shadows the Aegon swap.

Missing the obvious? There is nothing to miss.!Any connection between Bloodraven and Mance is extremely tenuous at best. Leadership and fighting ability is not exclusive to Mance and BR. There are loads of people capable of it in the rest of Westeros. And Rhaegar was as different to BR as Mance is so I'm not sure what your point is there.

No reason...except that he never would have allowed it. As far as anyone knows, Mance deserted the Watch. The penalty is death. Stannis would not approve burning another man in his place and letting everyone think it was Mance who was killed. For one thing there's no king's blood in Rattleshirt. For another, no matter how much anyone disliked the Lord of Bones, he hadn't done anything illegal that could be specifically attributed to him. So there was no reason to burn him.

So you don't have a reason then...Stannis has a very flexible sense of justice and he exercises it when it suits him. He was eventually convinced to burn Edric, an innocent boy, for the good of the realm. He spared a knight despite him being a rapist because he belonged to a good house. Stannis doesn't give a rat's fart about burning as noted in him not burning Asha when he easily could have. In fact, if anything it makes no sense that Melisandre would burn someone without KIngsblood and spare someone who did have it. Sounds more like Stannis persuaded her to keep up his façade. Stannis knew Mance was useful, even said so himself I believe. And there's Rattleshirt mentioning "they" when he was burned. There is enough evidence to suggest Stannis did know.

Stannis and Mance don't have to "exchange notes in the middle of a battle." Stannis wins. He sees Mance, then they talk. There's no way Mance wrote that letter prior to the battle anyway. Because there's no way a singer is getting to the ravens while Ramsay and Roose are in charge of things at Winterfell.

So Mance and Stannis decide to troll Jon over a cup of coffee after they've won the battle? Seriously? The letter almost certainly was written after the mini battle between Frey/Manderley and Stannis. But written after the entire battle itself? Not a chance. The Bolton's still hold the upper hand. Taking Winterfell is going to take time for Stannis even with the defections.

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Funny, always had Stannis in my head and that seems to be the least popular opinion.

Which is a bit surprising since in the sample chapter

he said "you may here that I'm dead" to Justin and in that same sample chapter Theon said "He wants his Reek".

But I'm just repeating stuff. It just surprised me a little that Stannis isn't one of the top picks.

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