GtrGbln Posted July 11, 2015 Author Share Posted July 11, 2015 I suppose D&D could continue without Jon. But IMHO, not the books. That would be, however, a MAJOR deviation from the books. The show hasn't much invested in the R+L=J theory and the prophecies, and the moral values I read in the books.The books are done for me, I'm pretty sure of that, if Jon is definitely dead. Okay snark aside why? Is there no other character that you enjoy reading? I'm genuinely asking because if thats the case I think I'm beginning understand what everyone is so upset about if they feel as you do. Personally if my favorite, Tyrion died I would be sad but hey thats how it goes down sometimes. I really think that no one in this story is absolutely 100% necessary/irreplaceable. The story is just focused on too many characters for any one them being gone to ruin the story both in terms of literary form and the overall narrative. To me at least this story is just on a scale too big for one person to make that kind a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGBeyondAsshai Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Edited because my feelings are too strong :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ServantOnIce Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 They killed him off the show, let it go folks. He may still be alive in the books or come back in book 7. Folks need to move on . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BalerionTheCat Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Okay snark aside why? Is there no other character that you enjoy reading? I'm genuinely asking because if thats the case I think I'm beginning understand what everyone is so upset about if they feel as you do. Personally if my favorite, Tyrion died I would be sad but hey thats how it goes down sometimes. I really think that no one in this story is absolutely 100% necessary/irreplaceable. The story is just focused on too many characters for any one them being gone to ruin the story both in terms of literary form and the overall narrative. To me at least this story is just on a scale too big for one person to make that kind a difference. I know not everyone values the characters alike. But I have taken a great dislike for all these would be kings or queens, who claim the right to rule others because of their ancestry, or their victory in battles. Battles often payed with the blood of others. I don't care if Daenerys is right or wrong. I only observe that her actions have initiated the total destruction of Astapor and unlashed the Pale Mare, which is killing more people than anything else in ASoIaF world. People in Essos may had a poor life before, but they were not asking for a better one. Not before someone made promises she couldn't hold. On the other side, we have people dedicated to serving others, not exploiting them. The Free Folks choose kings because they believe these will make their lives better not worse. They don't have to bend the knee and die for causes not their own. In the NW, people live and die at their post, in the cold, not in pyramids higher than the Wall, with little fish pond. Compare the words for Daenerys (just an inflated version of kings standard): All kneel for Daenerys Stormborn, the Unburnt, Queen of Meereen, Queen of the Andals and the Rhoynar and the First Men, Khaleesi of Great Grass Sea, Breaker of Shackles, and Mother of Dragons. And Jon and the NW: I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. Only people like Mance, Davos or Manderly, or some NW brothers are attractive to me. Most are dead now, like Qhorin Halfhand. And have always been supports to Jon's story arc. Tyrion is not completely bad, but he is far from the moral value by some. And there is all the Tower of Joy and rebellion events. And Rhaegar and Lyanna sacrifices, and many others in their respective families. All would be wasted, all for nothing if Jon was dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GtrGbln Posted July 11, 2015 Author Share Posted July 11, 2015 I know not everyone values the characters alike. But I have taken a great dislike for all these would be kings or queens, who claim the right to rule others because of their ancestry, or their victory in battles. Battles often payed with the blood of others. I don't care if Daenerys is right or wrong. I only observe that her actions have initiated the total destruction of Astapor and unlashed the Pale Mare, which is killing more people than anything else in ASoIaF world. People in Essos may had a poor life before, but they were not asking for a better one. Not before someone made promises she couldn't hold. On the other side, we have people dedicated to serving others, not exploiting them. The Free Folks choose kings because they believe these will make their lives better not worse. They don't have to bend the knee and die for causes not their own. In the NW, people live and die at their post, in the cold, not in pyramids higher than the Wall, with little fish pond. Compare the words for Daenerys (just an inflated version of kings standard): All kneel for Daenerys Stormborn, the Unburnt, Queen of Meereen, Queen of the Andals and the Rhoynar and the First Men, Khaleesi of Great Grass Sea, Breaker of Shackles, and Mother of Dragons. And Jon and the NW: I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. Only people like Mance, Davos or Manderly, or some NW brothers are attractive to me. Most are dead now, like Qhorin Halfhand. And have always been supports to Jon's story arc. Tyrion is not completely bad, but he is far from the moral value by some. And there is all the Tower of Joy and rebellion events. And Rhaegar and Lyanna sacrifices, and many others in their respective families. All would be wasted, all for nothing if Jon was dead. So it basically boils down to you hate Dany. Not a very good reason imo. I'm kind of sorry I asked. I really was hoping for a little more than everyone but Jon is a big jerkface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BalerionTheCat Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 So it basically boils down to you hate Dany. Not a very good reason imo. I'm kind of sorry I asked. I really was hoping for a little more than everyone but Jon is a big jerkface. It is Daenerys and all the would be kings. But she is the one who has created the more chaos and destruction. Even Tywin and Joffrey had not done so much. You asked and I gave you my why. And for the number of "big jerkface", beside the obvious, like Gregor or Ramsey, there are only a few in my books. Just the would be kings who see themselves at the top of the pyramid. It is not something specific to Daenerys. It is the monarchic ruling system that GRRM describes that make me react like that. And the existence of other peoples besides, with better values, not just Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GravyFace Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 It is Daenerys and all the would be kings. But she is the one who has created the more chaos and destruction. Even Tywin and Joffrey had not done so much. You asked and I gave you my why. And for the number of "big jerkface", beside the obvious, like Gregor or Ramsey, there are only a few in my books. Just the would be kings who see themselves at the top of the pyramid. It is not something specific to Daenerys. It is the monarchic ruling system that GRRM describes that make me react like that. And the existence of other peoples besides, with better values, not just Jon.The creation of chaos and destruction is necessary when you're doing what Daenerys is doing. There's no other character in the story attempting what she's doing. No one else cares about the millions of people who are bought and sold and killed as slaves. You say there's people with better values, but yet none of those have attempted to free these slaves. Any other character in her shoes would be creating just as much destruction.As for those titles, she earned them. As long and silly as they are, they're not false. She's the unburnt, she's the breaker of chains, she's a khalessi who led her people through the red waste, and she's the mother of dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BalerionTheCat Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 The creation of chaos and destruction is necessary when you're doing what Daenerys is doing. There's no other character in the story attempting what she's doing. No one else cares about the millions of people who are bought and sold and killed as slaves. You say there's people with better values, but yet none of those have attempted to free these slaves. Any other character in her shoes would be creating just as much destruction.As for those titles, she earned them. As long and silly as they are, they're not false. She's the unburnt, she's the breaker of chains, she's a khalessi who led her people through the red waste, and she's the mother of dragons. I agree 100% with you. I just see the bottom line, the butcher bill, and the future perspectives. But speaking of Daenerys and the divine right of kings to decide the lives of others was not the purpose of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joan Jett Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Wow. She's such a bad liar lol. If she's going to pretend that he's gone for good the least she could do is act a little sad about it. That's what stuck out to me at the comic con panel, their reactions to his "death" should have been like their reactions to the red wedding at least a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregor Clegane's head Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 People still believe D&D/the cast about Jon being dead? Mel's at the wall, Sam's line about him coming back, R&J hints and now the sword of the morning is being cast. Also Kit's hair isn't cut. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 “If I have to bet, I’d say it’s a 50/50 chance — there’s some helpful people there who could bring him on back to life,” -Emilia Clarke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz Stark-Targaryen Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 People still believe D&D/the cast about Jon being dead? Mel's at the wall, Sam's line about him coming back, R&J hints and now the sword of the morning is being cast. Also Kit's hair isn't cut. ;) Also, if this were truly Kit's last season, he would have been at Comic-Con, with all the pomp and circumstance that actors like Richard and Michelle got when their characters were killed off. One last big hurrah, so to speak. What other "A" character from the pilot would they just kill off without a proper swan song? Don't believe a word of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryk Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 “If I have to bet, I’d say it’s a 50/50 chance — there’s some helpful people there who could bring him on back to life,” -Emilia Clarke Lol, the other cast members must be wondering if EmIlia got the memo. GoT cast: "He's dead! He's dead! He's definitely dead!" EmIlia: "Well, he might be alive..." GoT cast: "SSSHHHHH!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arabian Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Maisie's just having a blast with this whole "He's dead." "Duh, do you people watch GOT? People die, like a lot!" "Sure, you can hope, but there's no hope." "Describe Game of Thrones in four words: 'Jon Snow is dead.'" She's cracking me up. She's so adorable. I love her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToTheWolves Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 People still believe D&D/the cast about Jon being dead? Mel's at the wall, Sam's line about him coming back, R&J hints and now the sword of the morning is being cast. Also Kit's hair isn't cut. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.