Bobby b's bobby Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Maybe he is. But some people - established posters with hundreds and thousands of posts - share many of his views. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt even if their opinions seem ridiculous. This is the internet after all. Tbh the ridiculous opinion is yours the show is crap i agree but it is the ridiculous opinion for whatever reason got is as popular as ever maybe more so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 This is what this thread is dealing with. Delusional people who think.-All the children on the show from Dany to Tommen were aged up so that they specifically could put Tommen in a sexual relationship seasons later.-That Tommen playing with cats is better television.-Sansa was taken out of the Vale and given the Jeyne Poole role specifically for the rape and not because the Vale arc was moving at a snails pace in the books and Jeyne isn't a fixture on the show.-That AFFC/ADWD weren't lambasted for years for having minimal resolutions and plot progression Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protar Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Tbh the ridiculous opinion is yours the show is crap i agree but it is the ridiculous opinion for whatever reason got is as popular as ever maybe more so. A lot of people love GoT. But how many of those viewers are actually scrutinising the show that deeply? I mean when I'm watching original TV shows I don't catch everything, so I don't blame the general public for missing that nothing makes sense. They're probably just assuming that they're missing some plot point that makes it all make sense. But to scrutinise the show and debate about it, and still come out believing that it's great? That is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 By that token how many people in this thread are scrutinizing the show very deeply, then giving the books a pass for similar situations or things that facilitated the changes on the show?And again a lot of the things people on here are saying don't make sense, were actually answered in the show. They are just too stuck on the way the books did things to accept those answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Typer of Dorne Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 This is what this thread is dealing with. Delusional people who think.-All the children on the show from Dany to Tommen were aged up so that they specifically could put Tommen in a sexual relationship seasons later. -That Tommen playing with cats is better television. -Sansa was taken out of the Vale and given the Jeyne Poole role specifically for the rape and not because the Vale arc was moving at a snails pace in the books and Jeyne isn't a fixture on the show. -That AFFC/ADWD weren't lambasted for years for having minimal resolutions and plot progression Thing is, they didn't age up Tommen at the start of the series, when they did all the others. They replaced him in season 4 (with Martyn Lannister I think) so the question has to be asked what could a younger Tommen not have done that an older Tommen could? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protar Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 This is what this thread is dealing with. Delusional people who think. -All the children on the show from Dany to Tommen were aged up so that they specifically could put Tommen in a sexual relationship seasons later. - Who has said this? Tommen was aged up so that scene could happen. But Tommen's age is not tied to the age of other characters. -That Tommen playing with cats is better television. - We got that on the show too. -Sansa was taken out of the Vale and given the Jeyne Poole role specifically for the rape and not because the Vale arc was moving at a snails pace in the books and Jeyne isn't a fixture on the show. - They've outright said that they loved the Winterfell story in ADWD and wanted to find a way to adapt it without Jeyne. And yet the only major scene from that plot was the wedding. So while I'm sure getting rid of the Vale was a factor, first and foremost they wanted a way to have that scene without Jeyne. -That AFFC/ADWD weren't lambasted for years for having minimal resolutions and plot progression - The show is in the same place in the narrative as the books. It hasn't sped anything up, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby b's bobby Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 A lot of people love GoT. But how many of those viewers are actually scrutinising the show that deeply? I mean when I'm watching original TV shows I don't catch everything, so I don't blame the general public for missing that nothing makes sense. They're probably just assuming that they're missing some plot point that makes it all make sense. But to scrutinise the show and debate about it, and still come out believing that it's great? That is ridiculous. I agree thinking about anything in got kills the logic and I do this with any show game or book I'm into but people don't got is that show with dragons and boobs not a story of the human heart in conflict with itself like it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon in the North Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Thing is, they didn't age up Tommen at the start of the series, when they did all the others. They replaced him in season 4 (with Martyn Lannister I think) so the question has to be asked what could a younger Tommen not have done that an older Tommen could? Act Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby b's bobby Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 This is what this thread is dealing with. Delusional people who think. -All the children on the show from Dany to Tommen were aged up so that they specifically could put Tommen in a sexual relationship seasons later. -That Tommen playing with cats is better television. -Sansa was taken out of the Vale and given the Jeyne Poole role specifically for the rape and not because the Vale arc was moving at a snails pace in the books and Jeyne isn't a fixture on the show. -That AFFC/ADWD weren't lambasted for years for having minimal resolutions and plot progression 1 Nobodies said anything close to that 2 we got that last season 3 they said they loved the wf storyline then added none of it. Jeyne is not a hard character to introduce. 4 true but season 5 has the same issues on a smaller scale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitteh Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 In a modern day world, Tommen, depending on what age he actually is supposed to be playing would be either statutory rape or not. But the world of GoT is NOT the modern day world, so why even say this???? It has ZERO bearing on anything. In the world of Ice & Fire, and in Middle Ages/Renaissance Earth, statutory rape doesn't exist and has nothing to do with the story. And if LOTR was in the modern day world, Frodo could have flown over Mordor and air-dropped the ring. That story would have been all of 5 minutes. This is what this thread is dealing with. Delusional people who think- -All the children on the show from Dany to Tommen were aged up so that they specifically could put Tommen in a sexual relationship seasons later. -That Tommen playing with cats is better television. -Sansa was taken out of the Vale and given the Jeyne Poole role specifically for the rape and not because the Vale arc was moving at a snails pace in the books and Jeyne isn't a fixture on the show. -That AFFC/ADWD weren't lambasted for years for having minimal resolutions and plot progression :agree: By that token how many people in this thread are scrutinizing the show very deeply, then giving the books a pass for similar situations or things that facilitated the changes on the show? And again a lot of the things people on here are saying don't make sense, were actually answered in the show. They are just too stuck on the way the books did things to accept those answers. :agree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Typer of Dorne Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Act Quite possibly but surely you can see how the timing of the change could lead to the idea that it was done in order for Tommen to sleep with Margery, beside his one line as Martyn Lannister 'Is this a rescue' was right up there with 'I can't be...a wizard'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Cornered_Wolf Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 This is what this thread is dealing with. Delusional people who think. -All the children on the show from Dany to Tommen were aged up so that they specifically could put Tommen in a sexual relationship seasons later. -That Tommen playing with cats is better television. -Sansa was taken out of the Vale and given the Jeyne Poole role specifically for the rape and not because the Vale arc was moving at a snails pace in the books and Jeyne isn't a fixture on the show. -That AFFC/ADWD weren't lambasted for years for having minimal resolutions and plot progression Thanks, I'm going to use this as an example of a strawman arguement the next time I have to explain it to someone. Deconstruct the actual things people say, that you can quote for accuracy. Re-phrasing to re-frame the arguement with generalizations so you can't be called on it is a lame and weak debating technique, and often times used by people who are pandering to those who agree with their viewpoint. Your points could be valid, but win them by presentation of your arguement and by deconstructing what you opponent actually said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 1. Actually we did get people in this thread allude to that line of logic.2. No we got a scene where there was a cat in Tommen's room while he and Marg had a conversation. We never got a king who cared more about playing with cats than to rule. That is superficial at best.3. They added none of the Winterfell story except, that they made the Bolton's want a Stark in Winterfell, wed someone they were calling a Stark (in the show it was a real Stark, in the books it was a fake) to Ramsay, this was designed to appease the Northerners as it was in the book, the bride was mistreated as in the book, she facilitated Theon's redemption and escaped with him (add Mance in the books) all the while Stannis was marching on them and preparing for a big battle. So basically they adapted nothing but the core of the storyline. A case of people getting hung up on minor differences in relation to the whole.4. And I agree with you. But this thread is about why people blame the books for a lot of the problems in season 5. And the thing is, they had a lot of the same problems, and a lot of the changes had more to do with difficulties in adapting some of the things in the books because of the nature of those books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenlyTheOneTrueKing Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 It doesn't matter how much you polish a turd, in the end you still have a turd. Books 4 and 5 are comparitively just not that good. It is very obvious to all but the most devoted of his fans that Martin has lost almost all interest in writing this series. So you have the show creators - and of course there are many, many more of them than just D&D - who are caught between a rock and a hard place. They have many options, none of which are that great: 1. Blow past two entire books, just barely touching on the plot 2. Re-write them to make them more entertaining 3. Ignore them entirely 4. Present them faithfully, almost certainly losing television fans and potentially funding for finishing the series 5. Do a little bit of each, make everyone just a bit mad but minimize damage <-- this is what I think they are attempting to do I definitely don't envy them. Any halfway competent TV director can film scenes like the Red Wedding and make it entertaining. What in the world are you to do with settings like Mereen, with dozens of incomprehensible names, a sluggish plot, bizarre character actions, and tenuous connection (at best) with the rest of the story? And god help you if you remove / edit ANY of it, because then you'll have "fans" screaming bloody murder over your decisions. This is so right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyat>Daenerys Posted July 22, 2015 Author Share Posted July 22, 2015 By that token how many people in this thread are scrutinizing the show very deeply, then giving the books a pass for similar situations or things that facilitated the changes on the show? And again a lot of the things people on here are saying don't make sense, were actually answered in the show. They are just too stuck on the way the books did things to accept those answers. @Channel4s-JonSnow Let me try to explain why the show makes no sense. The WF plotline. Why would LF marry Sansa to Ramsay? First Sansa is a wanted fugitive, suspected of murdering the king. Revealing her publicly makes LF a known traitor. This is a supposed mastermind, who should be working subtly, since he has no armies. Secondly Sansa is still married to Tyrion. So he can't just marry her to Ramsay. What does Littlefinger get out of this? The answer is absolutely nothing. He says his plan is for Stannis to win and save her. But he has no guarantee of Stannis's victory. Even if Stannis wins, what then? He can just keep Sansa to himself. Why doesn't LF write him a letter, proposing something? Why not wait until the battle is over? Much safer. And he risks just getting killed by the Boltons coming into WF. One is a RW conspirator, the other a brutal monster. Why do they let LF out of their castle? And apparently he gives Sansa a choice before coming to WF. And she says yes because of Revenge? A girl that's been held captive for more then a year jsut willingly goes into captivity again? Not to mention the ridiculous line of ''remeber what I've taught you''. What, exactly? How to manipulate vicious bastards into doing your bidding? I don't recall him teaching her that. The Stannis storyline. Why did they portray him as a loving father the whole season, only for him to burn Shireen? I know the situation was supposed to be dire, but it really wasn't shown as such. In the books it is described far worse, and he refuses to burn random peasants. Not to mention Selyse is always standing menacingly near Melisandre and then she breaks at the burning and hangs herself? They completely reversed their characters in one episode. It would be more believable if Selyse burned her and Stannis would suicide. Ramsay's 20 good men are just a bad joke. There is no way for them to light all these fires simultaneously and then just dissapear with nobody noticing. And there is no way these fires would completely cripple Stanniis. And the pay off was a joke. The snow melted? Really? But Theon and Sansa can still jump on the snow somehow. At the wall, it is implied Jon got stabbed because he admitted the wildlings. Why did they let them through the wall then? Just leave them outside when they came back from HH. Not to mention we have been shown the Hardhome battle, a massive fight against the undead. Why doesn't nobody talk about it? Having a fight of this scope against the ultimate enemy should definitely change the way people think. Petty squabbles should become unimportant, and they would have to realize they need to work together. Dorne. Ignoring the bad acting, bad dialouge and action scenes. Why would Jaime, a highborn go on a suicide stealth mission? Yes, there was no way of getting alive out of there. Or atleast it shouldn't be, but they got pardoned by Doran for no reason. Bronn (a sellsword) hits the prince of Dorne and his punishment is getting hit back? D&D sure love all those shocking scenes from the books, but when it comes to writing their own material it feels like I'm watching an Adam Sandler & Kevin James movie. This whole plotline was so silly, including that game the Sand Snakes were playing. Or the fact Jaime and Bronn simply sneak on the crown prince in the exact same time as the Sand Snakes arrive. Or that there were no guards, but all of a sudden 30 run into the camera. Or... In kings landing the sparrow's are portrayed as downright terrorists.They are shown rampaging through KL. The Tyrells and Lannisters should be killing them, not playing trials with them. In the books they work because they have the smallfolk on their side. Their nature is helpful. When Margaery Tyrell gets taken, Mace moves his whole army from Storm's end to KL. The only reason Cersei goes on the walk of shame is because Kevan doesn't help her. In the show it looks like the militant can do whatever they want. D&D have essentially portrayed a coup de etat on the show. And everyone is just being helpless despite having actual armies at their disposal. The Meeren plot. Why do random untrained nobles, armed with daggers and in robes kill the Unsullied in open battle? Dany talks about having a fair trial for one prisoner then just executes the next. Her marriage proposal to Hizdahr is really sudden and the reasoning is really bad. And when Tyrion and Dany meet it is bad. He basically trashtalks her and the next scene they are drining wine together? Why exactly? He just came and is a kinslayer and a dwarf. And everyone talks like he is the best guy at everything. A whore offered free sex to him, because he is so handsome and awesome. Varys randomly appears jut to randomly tell Tyrion how awesome he is. The pit scene is super cheesy. Dany/Hizdahr/Daario have this childish talk, while Tyrion sighs and appears wise and awesome again. Why does that fighter turns to Khaleesi, when he is about to kill Mormont, as if asking ''can I kill him?''. While Jorah just kills his opponents immediately? Why does nobody notice the sons of the harpy, but suddenly they are everywhere? The dragon gets spears thrown at him, while Dany just casually walks to him. And the rest is left behind when they fly off, surrounded by 30 or more sons. I wonder how they will survive... Next scene they are safely in the pyramid talking about RULING this city. Shouldn't the sons have killed them, or was there another point to their attack? They were literally surrounded by people who kill Unsullied for breakfast and just magically got away. Arya's storyline is the only one which actually works on a basic level. It is the only storyline this season which can even be taken seriously. And GOT is suppsoed to be a drama not a comedy. When nothing makes sense, I wouldn't call it srutinizing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenlyTheOneTrueKing Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Act I think Dean-Charles is a good actor for what he's been told to act Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 This thread has gotten too long. Please start a continuation thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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