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"Why are you so angry?" Anita Sarkeesian, Gamergate, Sad Puppies, and online harassment


Howdyphillip

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As far as I know, she wasn't actually a very public figure when this whole thing started. She was relatively unknown, and her kickstarter was left more or less alone by harassers until someone on 4chan or some subreddit or something started an internet mob and targeted her. Of course, she ended up becoming a public figure, but that was not the origin of the harassment. 

 

 

I think Nestor was being sarcastic... (It took me a few seconds to realize too)
 

 

Most likely because most people who claim she sucks haven't watcher her videos. It's easier to discard anything and everything she says that way since it requires no effort and no thought.

 

 

That's more or less what I suspect of eyenon, as he started off with refusing to say what specific claims in Sarkeesian's videos he found so objectionable because this wasn't the thread for it, but then he's spent a bunch of posts continuing to criticize Sarkeesian's work with no actual examples. It's almost as if... he read somewhere that Anita Sarkeesian sucks, and bought whatever arguments he saw there, but didn't actually do the homework.

 

So we're left with this feeble flailing-about where she's "no hero" because she's not criticizing depictions of child abuse in a project called Feminist Frequency, but nooooo, this isn't the thread where it would be appropriate for him to get specific about his criticisms... And also, men are the real victims in video games, or something.

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It's nothing new to any sort of minority movement. There are plenty of similarly nonsensical critique against the LBGT movement for not doing more about racism, for instance. It's the line of "you're not really for equality because you're not working to end the pandemic of black Americans disproportionately imprisoned," etc. 

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A reason a don't like to really delve into her videos is because on a thread some time ago I debated with Lyanna Stark and said my valid criticisms of Anita's videos. It was obvious that I watched them
Now Lyanna Stark didn't even budge on her position and is now claiming that I've probably never even watched her videos.

But the main issues I have are that she seems to be saying something like - Women aren't treated right in video games and it's harmful to us in real life so they need to change. <---If her point is something completely different then please correct me.
There's nothing backing up to the shit she throws out there.
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Re: Eyenon
 
 
 

A reason a don't like to really delve into her videos is because on a thread some time ago I debated with Lyanna Stark and said my valid criticisms of Anita's videos. It was obvious that I watched them
Now Lyanna Stark didn't even budge on her position and is now claiming that I've probably never even watched her videos.

 
I was in the thread. I don't recall your posts, either. It happens. 
 
 

 

But the main issues I have are that she seems to be saying something like - Women aren't treated right in video games and it's harmful to us in real life so they need to change. <---If her point is something completely different then please correct me.


There's nothing backing up to the shit she throws out there.

 
You do realize that "male characters are treated poorly" does not refute the statement that "female characters are treated poorly", right? And some of your points have alreayd been addressed by Nestor, too.

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Yes I get that she's only focusing and remaining locked in on things she deems harmful to only women. I'm not disputing that she does that.

A guy like Rush Limbaugh hones in and focuses on only things that his audience cares about.

I get the concept of preaching.
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I am not saying you're disputing that. I am saying that your conclusion that she's not some kind of hero is off-base. I don't think Sarkeesian is a heroine, either, for putting up her blogs. I think her work has value in raising awareness at the feminism 101 level for most gamers who are not exposed to the basic ideas of feminism. I do think she has done outstandingly well to weather the storm that came after her. 

 

But you know, I just realized that I played right into your hands, too, by engaging you on this topic, when you have not even really presented your own thesis or argument. You're just making us dig for it. Well, fuck that. I'm done with this trolling game. 

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I am not saying you're disputing that. I am saying that your conclusion that she's not some kind of hero is off-base. I don't think Sarkeesian is a heroine, either, for putting up her blogs. I think her work has value in raising awareness at the feminism 101 level for most gamers who are not exposed to the basic ideas of feminism. I do think she has done outstandingly well to weather the storm that came after her. 

 

But you know, I just realized that I played right into your hands, too, by engaging you on this topic, when you have not even really presented your own thesis or argument. You're just making us dig for it. Well, fuck that. I'm done with this trolling game. 

 

Yup. I bailed on it too. Like flicking bread pellets in a black hole.

 

I suppose it's possible he's watched her videos, despite his refusal to advance anything but the most inane critiques that could have been copy-pasted from any number of GamerGate-curious sources. I think he just lacks the tools to understand them or the basic issues involved.

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I am not saying you're disputing that. I am saying that your conclusion that she's not some kind of hero is off-base. I don't think Sarkeesian is a heroine, either, for putting up her blogs. I think her work has value in raising awareness at the feminism 101 level for most gamers who are not exposed to the basic ideas of feminism. I do think she has done outstandingly well to weather the storm that came after her. 
 
But you know, I just realized that I played right into your hands, too, by engaging you on this topic, when you have not even really presented your own thesis or argument. You're just making us dig for it. Well, fuck that. I'm done with this trolling game. 


Actually I just wanted to make the point that thinking her work is shitty doesn't make one be a gamergater, or sad puppy or a secret misogynist, or an out in the open misogynist.

And please, I had no specific intention of getting you to engage with me.
Please don't do it if you don't feel comfortable with my points and arguments.
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A reason a don't like to really delve into her videos is because on a thread some time ago I debated with Lyanna Stark and said my valid criticisms of Anita's videos. It was obvious that I watched them
Now Lyanna Stark didn't even budge on her position and is now claiming that I've probably never even watched her videos.

But the main issues I have are that she seems to be saying something like - Women aren't treated right in video games and it's harmful to us in real life so they need to change. <---If her point is something completely different then please correct me.
There's nothing backing up to the shit she throws out there.

 

 

Really? I don't recall debating with you about it, if it wasn't something along the line of "Well you can shoot everyone in Deus Ex" or something like that. 

 

Bolded is COMPLETELY RIGHT! And it is also completely true. Several articles on Anita's own website (surprise) lists examples of scholarly articles detailing fairly simple writings even laymen can understand, which describe how what we read, what we see and the culture around us affect us. If we are constantly bombarded by sexist messages, then that will be the normal, and we will carry them with us through life. Sexism will be normalised. Further, it has also been shown that constantly consuming media with strong objectification of women make men less likely to empathise with women, i.e. it makes men see women as less human.

 

You can disagree all you like, but this is real. It is also potentially lethal to women, so if you care about women and their health and safety, you should take this seriously.

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Actually I just wanted to make the point that thinking her work is shitty doesn't make one be a gamergater, or sad puppy or a secret misogynist, or an out in the open misogynist.

And please, I had no specific intention of getting you to engage with me.
Please don't do it if you don't feel comfortable with my points and arguments.

 

#notallanitahaters

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Right, the inability to perceive ones own privilege can go either way.
Such as wincing and feeling uncomfortable at a female character being sexualized while not even noticing the 20 male characters that were put in the game specifically to be murdered.

Keep in mind there are also a lot of male characters specifically put in the game to be heroes, protagonists, helpers, comrades; all in some variety of body-shape, age; at a lot of different levels of fan-service. And that is something that tends to be a lot rarer for female characters.

Women being represented in a sexualized way would not be much of an issue if it happened as a subset of a lot wider representation of women. Of course that is not really the case in games, and in our media in general.

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So what is she saying???
All women have to be covered up? All men?? Or there has to be an equal number of each?
Her examples in her videos are terrible.
Today's games are massive, with 80+ hours of content,
Then plucking out a 20 second clip from the game as proof that the game is bombarding you with sexism against women?

Actually her in game clips don't even tend to be 20 seconds long, they are more like a few seconds
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Actually I just wanted to make the point that thinking her work is shitty doesn't make one be a gamergater, or sad puppy or a secret misogynist, or an out in the open misogynist.


I don't think literally anyone here disagrees with you on that -- you have no obligation to like her work.
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I don't think literally anyone here disagrees with you on that -- you have no obligation to like her work.

Idk, maybe I'm seeing phantom things but there seems to be this equation that thinking her work is laughable equates you to death threats, gamergate, misogyny, and general bigotry.
I could be wrong.

I mean look at the amount of money raised for those still incomplete videos.
People make full length feature independent films for less money.
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Idk, maybe I'm seeing phantom things but there seems to be this equation that thinking her work is laughable equates you to death threats, gamergate, misogyny, and general bigotry.

 

You know this is the type of crap you always hear from the GG side of the fence and it astonishes me that they think it's the "Social Justice Warriors" who have the persecution complexes :lol: 

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You know this is the type of crap you always hear from the GG side of the fence and it astonishes me that they think it's the "Social Justice Warriors" who have the persecution complexes [emoji38] 


This is why I point out that I'm not into Gamergate or death threats.
Because you hear it from a side of the fence doesn't locate me on that side of the fence.
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So what is she saying???
All women have to be covered up? All men?? Or there has to be an equal number of each?
Her examples in her videos are terrible.
Today's games are massive, with 80+ hours of content,
Then plucking out a 20 second clip from the game as proof that the game is bombarding you with sexism against women?

Actually her in game clips don't even tend to be 20 seconds long, they are more like a few seconds

She is saying that some common ways female characters are used in games have problematic aspects, and gives examples of those tropes - which in this case are often examples of lazy writing with developers going for a first obvious solution. She is building a case that they are overused, and challenging developers to be less lazy and raising awareness in consumers so that they might also ask for more.

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She is saying that some common ways female characters are used in games have problematic aspects, and gives examples of those tropes - which in this case are often examples of lazy writing with developers going for a first obvious solution. She is building a case that they are overused, and challenging developers to be less lazy and raising awareness in consumers so that they might also ask for more.

This is a different summary of her work than the one that I was responding to.
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