Lafayette, LA. Movie Theater Shooting

[Hutch]

 
Really?  :rolleyes:

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0MK0CB20150324

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_Regional_High_School_stabbing

http://m.voanews.com/a/2565398.html

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-australia-stabbing-20141218-story.html

Really.

[Glaurung]

 

Really?  :rolleyes:

 

It is true.  There have been several mass stabbings in the states, even with access to guns.  

 

That being said, the mass stabbings generally result in more injured people, but far fewer deaths.  

 

Something needs to be corrected though.  Why the the increase over the last several years?  These types of things(both mass stabbings and shootings) used to be extremely rare, even though people still had easy access to firearms.  The access to firearms hasn't been what has changed the last several years.  While I do believe that we do need reform on gun laws, we need to look at why these types of events are becoming so common in the US.  

[The Fallen]

We need more guns to be really safe. That's why gun and gang-infested neighborhoods are the safest in the US.

[alguien]

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0MK0CB20150324

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_Regional_High_School_stabbing

http://m.voanews.com/a/2565398.html

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-australia-stabbing-20141218-story.html

Really.

 

First is a terrorist attack by 8 seperatists. 

 

No deaths from the second. 

 

The last two look like family incidents. Not public shootings. 

 

All tragic, to be sure. All easily way worse had there been guns involved. Hell I could find worse tragedies like that in single week in the US with guns. Weak sauce.  

 

I'd love a country where all I have to worry about is knives. 

[alguien]

 

It is true.  There have been several mass stabbings in the states, even with access to guns.  

 

That being said, the mass stabbings generally result in more injured people, but far fewer deaths.  

 

Something needs to be corrected though.  Why the the increase over the last several years?  These types of things(both mass stabbings and shootings) used to be extremely rare, even though people still had easy access to firearms.  The access to firearms hasn't been what has changed the last several years.  While I do believe that we do need reform on gun laws, we need to look at why these types of events are becoming so common in the US.  

 

I think upping mental health care, a lot of which was defunded starting in the 80's would help. Some tighter restrictions on high capacity magazines and burst fire weapons would as well.

 

Personally, I think the licensing and training that comes with acquiring firearms in the US is laughable. The NRA, which should be about promoting responsible gun stewardship, (and used to be) has devolved into a remarkably successful marketing lobby that promotes fantasies of rugged survivalism and freedom--at the cost of human lives. 

[straits]

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0MK0CB20150324

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_Regional_High_School_stabbing

http://m.voanews.com/a/2565398.html

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-australia-stabbing-20141218-story.html

Really.

 

 

I don't think that all would-be mass shooters have the nerve to murder close-range with a sharp weapon instead of spraying at a distance. I don't think it's the same for the perpetrator. The gun is a much bigger enabler to somewhat more impersonal violence.

[Hutch]

 
First is a terrorist attack by 8 seperatists. 
 
No deaths from the second. 
 
The last two look like family incidents. Not public shootings. 
 
All tragic, to be sure. All easily way worse had there been guns involved. Hell I could find worse tragedies like that in single week in the US with guns. Weak sauce.  
 
I'd love a country where all I have to worry about is knives. 

Those were the first 4 that came up. I get it, you don't like guns. But to say there is no such thing as mass stabbings is incredibly naive. You take away everything that could be used as a weapon, and people will be beating each other's heads in with rocks in no time. There are sick people out there that want to cause harm to others, and they'll find a way, guns or not.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

I am getting really sick of these.

 

 

 So are we. About time we actually tried to do something about them, ya think? (Mass shootings, that is)

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Those were the first 4 that came up. I get it, you don't like guns. But to say there is no such thing as mass stabbings is incredibly naive. You take away everything that could be used as a weapon, and people will be beating each other's heads in with rocks in no time. There are sick people out there that want to cause harm to others, and they'll find a way, guns or not.

 

 I'll take my chances versus a bat/hammer/knife/rock over a firearm, thank you very much.

[alguien]

Those were the first 4 that came up. I get it, you don't like guns. But to say there is no such thing as mass stabbings is incredibly naive. You take away everything that could be used as a weapon, and people will be beating each other's heads in with rocks in no time. There are sick people out there that want to cause harm to others, and they'll find a way, guns or not.

 

Good thing I didn't say there was no such things as mass stabbings, then.

 

My point, which I thought was obvious, is that the potential death toll from a "mass stabbing" (which by the way, only one of your examples took place in a school--where there were no deaths) is far less than a mass shooting. That fact that I even need clarify a distinction between the two phenomena betrays a fundamental misunderstanding for how firearms are used.

 

I don't mind guns, actually. I just wish we were more responsible with them.

[S John]

I don't mind guns, actually. I just wish we were more responsible with them. 

 

The vast majority of gun owners in the US are responsible and have not shot up a theater and never would.  Those people, rightfully in my opinion, do not feel as thought they should be punished for the actions of a few mentally unstable which is why we all go round and round every time there is a mass shooting incident and then forget about it a week later.  There is no real political will in America to ban or heavily restrict access to firearms for the average citizen and I can't even begin to guess what it would take to change that mindset.  I don't think it will change.  I think we've made our bed in terms of US gun culture, and now we've gotta sleep in it.  

[Glaurung]

 

I think upping mental health care, a lot of which was defunded starting in the 80's would help. Some tighter restrictions on high capacity magazines and burst fire weapons would as well.

 

Personally, I think the licensing and training that comes with acquiring firearms in the US is laughable. The NRA, which should be about promoting responsible gun stewardship, (and used to be) has devolved into a remarkably successful marketing lobby that promotes fantasies of rugged survivalism and freedom--at the cost of human lives. 

 

I think that adequate training is given.  Some people are just idiots and don't learn well.  I learned from a young age, taking hunter's safety courses, and I can handle a gun very well and safely even though I don't own one and have only shot a gun once in the last 20 years(and that was just target practice on a friend's farm...just having fun).  

 

Think of all the people you know who passed high school or even college with good grades, yet you know they're stupid.  You wouldn't trust them to do your work for you.  I think the same is applicable to guns.  The training is adequate, but some people are just idiots who pass a few tests but don't really learn anything(or they just do dumb things).  

 

I don't think lowering magazine capacity would have much of an impact.  At least, it won't prevent it from happening.  It may cut down on the casualties, but I'm not sure on that.  Magazines are easy to replace.  Any would be asshole would just need to take a couple more with him, or he could just bring a 2nd firearm.  

 

Regarding upping our spending on mental healthcare, that may help a bit.  However, I believe there were just as many undiagnosed crazy people 10 years ago when this kind of thing was very uncommon.  What we have now is a trend.  Copy cat killers who see these things in the media and think to themselves "yeah, taking out a bunch of people in this cruel society would be the best way to go!!".  I know you can't just stop reporting these types of things, but if these were largely ignored, the # of incidents would fall way down.  

[Hutch]

 
Good thing I didn't say there was no such things as mass stabbings, then.
 
My point, which I thought was obvious, is that the potential death toll from a "mass stabbing" (which by the way, only one of your examples took place in a school--where there were no deaths) is far less than a mass shooting. That fact that I even need clarify a distinction between the two phenomena betrays a fundamental misunderstanding for how firearms are used.
 
I don't mind guns, actually. I just wish we were more responsible with them.

We are apparently arguing two different things. My initial post was saying that banning guns will not stop disturbed people from attempting to harm others. You countered with the always wonderful condescending eye roll in regards to mass stabbings. Yes, there are mass stabbings. Yes, the potential for more casualties is higher with guns. Based on that logic though, let's ban fertilizer, pressure cookers, etc because obviously they can be used to up the casualty rate as well.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

 

Those people, rightfully in my opinion, do not feel as thought they should be punished for the actions of a few mentally unstable which is why we all go round and round every time there is a mass shooting incident and then forget about it a week later.  

 

 Yeah, but it's kind of hard to forget about them when there's one occurring every fucking week.

[Westerosi Coast Gangster]

[quote name="Free Northman Reborn" post="7219664" timestamp="1437759089"]

quote name="awesome possum" post="7219455" timestamp="1437755082"]

 I know. Maybe one day America can join the likes of all the.other fun-loving countries out there, where everyone holds hands and burns others alive.

[S John]

 

 Yeah, but it's kind of hard to forget about them when there's one occurring every fucking week.

 

We forget about it because there's a new one.

[alguien]

 

The vast majority of gun owners in the US are responsible and have not shot up a theater and never would.  Those people, rightfully in my opinion, do not feel as thought they should be punished for the actions of a few mentally unstable which is why we all go round and round every time there is a mass shooting incident and then forget about it a week later.  There is no real political will in America to ban or heavily restrict access to firearms for the average citizen and I can't even begin to guess what it would take to change that mindset.  I don't think it will change.  I think we've made our bed in terms of US gun culture, and now we've gotta sleep in it.  

 

Though such a claim is hard to quantify, (regarding the responsibility of gun owners) I'd like to believe its true. I question whether better required training and regulations on magazine and burst-fire capacity count as "punishment."

 

The reason there is no political will is that the NRA has done a stupendous job as a marketing firm for gun companies. There is certainly a desire in the US to fix the broken system, but until that lobby's power is curbed, it won't happen. 

[alguien]

 

I think that adequate training is given.  Some people are just idiots and don't learn well.  I learned from a young age, taking hunter's safety courses, and I can handle a gun very well and safely even though I don't own one and have only shot a gun once in the last 20 years(and that was just target practice on a friend's farm...just having fun).  

 

Think of all the people you know who passed high school or even college with good grades, yet you know they're stupid.  You wouldn't trust them to do your work for you.  I think the same is applicable to guns.  The training is adequate, but some people are just idiots who pass a few tests but don't really learn anything(or they just do dumb things).  

 

I don't think lowering magazine capacity would have much of an impact.  At least, it won't prevent it from happening.  It may cut down on the casualties, but I'm not sure on that.  Magazines are easy to replace.  Any would be asshole would just need to take a couple more with him, or he could just bring a 2nd firearm.  

 

Regarding upping our spending on mental healthcare, that may help a bit.  However, I believe there were just as many undiagnosed crazy people 10 years ago when this kind of thing was very uncommon.  What we have now is a trend.  Copy cat killers who see these things in the media and think to themselves "yeah, taking out a bunch of people in this cruel society would be the best way to go!!".  I know you can't just stop reporting these types of things, but if these were largely ignored, the # of incidents would fall way down.  

 

Sounds like you were well-schooled. But the problem is that different states have completely different standards, and some of them are frankly shitty. 

 

Magazine capacity definitely has an impact. I remember someone arguing that it didn't on this very forum, and look what happened in New Mexico. A year or so later in my hometown of Seattle, another mass shooter was tackled by a security guard as he tried to change a smaller magazine in mid-rampage. It totally saved lives. 

 

From a sportsman's perspective, the other thing is, why the does a good marksman need a high-capacity magazine? You should be able to hit what you need to with the bullets you have. 

[TerraPrime]

 

There is no real political will in America to ban or heavily restrict access to firearms for the average citizen and I can't even begin to guess what it would take to change that mindset.  I don't think it will change.  I think we've made our bed in terms of US gun culture, and now we've gotta sleep in it.  

 

 

Been saying this for a while now. 

 

If a literal heap of children's bodies resulting from gun accidents and a documented string of mass shootings cannot convince America that perhaps, maybe, the way we view fire arms need to change, then I don't know what will. 

 

But let that not stop people from hand-wringing after each tragedy. It would be shockingly humane if the pro-gun people were to not leverage yet another gun violence tragedy to promote more guns. Maybe people didn't see it, but solo has already linked to show that the NRA has already rated Louisianna as the 5th best state in terms of gun laws. Then again, I'm not sure the NRA is accurately assessing the reflex and gunmanship of legions of hot-blooded young people weened on the milk  of Counter Strike and Halo. Surely, if they can score headshots and crotch shots in a video game, it's no problem for them to aim at an assailant in a dark movie theater without jeorpadizing others, and the only thing stopping this from happening is the unreasonable restrictions on carrying firearms. 

 

I'm also tired of the disingenuous bullshitting of how gun laws won't reduce the impact of these incidents by citing knives and stabbings. Seriously? Do you see the military research outfits pouring millions into developing better knives? No? Why is that? Maybe because guns are better at killing people than knives are, in general? Perhaps? 

 

And no, I don't want to ban guns. I don't even want to restrict guns. I want all guns, for all people. And I mean every one. The 2A made no mention of felons, for instance, or mentally ill people with violence tendencies. Let them all have guns. Once we see gun deaths every night on TV we will finally get over the hand-wringing and stop wasting time crying over tragedies like this. 

[alguien]

We are apparently arguing two different things. My initial post was saying that banning guns will not stop disturbed people from attempting to harm others. You countered with the always wonderful condescending eye roll in regards to mass stabbings. Yes, there are mass stabbings. Yes, the potential for more casualties is higher with guns. Based on that logic though, let's ban fertilizer, pressure cookers, etc because obviously they can be used to up the casualty rate as well.

 

My eyeroll was because of your false equivalency between guns, knives, and fertilizer, and in ignoring the difference in body count. No one is claiming all murder will stop if you restrict guns further. But two of those things are tools with multiple purpose and one is designed solely to destroy whatever its aimed at.