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WhiteWalkerTexasRanger

Why wouldn't Tyrion befriend Cersei?

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Before Black Water Tyrion was dining in Cersei's solar talking about stuff like Tommen, who would guard Joffrey, lady Tanda, his wildlings. But when things escalated and she accused him of wanting Joff dead so he can rule over Tommen, Tyrion submitted. I know he's taken crap from his family all his life, but amends can be made. If he had said something like "I may have 'killed' our mother coming into this world and look twisted and bad a man, but I'm as much Lannister as you and care for this family and realm. I wouldn't kill Joffrey my own blood nor you, Tommen, Jaime, or any other Lannister for my own benefit. The gods gave me wit to compensate my height and we are on the same team. You don't have to hate me." In my opinion that would of helped him better than threatening to hurt her for taking "his whore"--which ended up being Chataya, instead of Shae--and that one day her joy will turn to ashes in her mouth, which is very ominous and hatefu. There's no way he could recover a relationship after saying something like that, and I'm sure he knew, so why throw it away and risk her eventual wrath? Idk, it seemed stupid of him for how smart he is. Even if it was GR foreshadowing and setting up, I feel that he took Tyrion out of character to do it.

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I don't think so at all.
It was pointed out a lot in the novels that Tyrion spoke before he had thought about what to say, and that his mouth would be his undoing. Moreover, Tyrion never showed any signs of wanting a better relationship with his sister. It was always a competetion between the two of them.

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I don't think so at all.
It was pointed out a lot in the novels that Tyrion spoke before he had thought about what to say, and that his mouth would be his undoing. Moreover, Tyrion never showed any signs of wanting a better relationship with his sister. It was always a competetion between the two of them.


I guess your right. He does speak his mind before he speaks. He had such a good chance to fix a broken relationship. Chapters ago they were laughing over Stannis attacking renly, they agreed on the tommen saving the lannister issues, and both of them love their brother. He ended all of that by speaking without thinking. Imagine how powerful the lannisters would be with tyrion and cersei working together

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I don't see how it would have mattered. Cersei has despised Tyrion for literally his entire life. There's no way in hell he could be oblivious to it, and I really can't see him trying to patch things up now. He probably tried befriending her for years to no effect. She believes he killed her mom, and will kill her too. Even if he had tried, it wouldn't have worked.

If someone has hated you, made fun of you, hurt you, for as long as you can remember; for a reason you had absolutely no control over, you are not going to bend over backwards for them. Not ever.

Tyrion said what he did because he is intelligent. If he hadn't responded as he did, she might have clued in to the fact she had the wrong whore, and Shae would have been put at risk. We all saw that smarmy grin she had in the show when he made that threat. I bet she was wearing it in the book too. She thought she had him by the balls, and that he knew it. That there was nothing he could do to her anymore. Well a phrase comes to mind to describe that: Assumption is the mother of all fuck-ups.

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I don't see how it would have mattered. Cersei has despised Tyrion for literally his entire life. There's no way in hell he could be oblivious to it, and I really can't see him trying to patch things up now. He probably tried befriending her for years to no effect. She believes he killed her mom, and will kill her too. Even if he had tried, it wouldn't have worked.

If someone has hated you, made fun of you, hurt you, for as long as you can remember; for a reason you had absolutely no control over, you are not going to bend over backwards for them. Not ever.

Tyrion said what he did because he is intelligent. If he hadn't responded as he did, she might have clued in to the fact she had the wrong whore, and Shae would have been put at risk. We all saw that smarmy grin she had in the show when he made that threat. I bet she was wearing it in the book too. She thought she had him by the balls, and that he knew it. That there was nothing he could do to her anymore. Well a phrase comes to mind to describe that: Assumption is the mother of all fuck-ups.

 

:agree:

 

So much this.

 

And an agreement - albeit temporarily - would require much from both sides, not just one. It's nearly the art of compromise. Even though this relationship is clearly a kind of compromise.

 

Tyrion knows about Cersei's feelings.

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There is a very long and deep-seated hatred between the two, and this hatred, at least on Cersei's part, is later explained in A Feast for Crows.  She does indeed despise Tyrion for "killing her mother," but there's another reason too.

 

This isn't entirely explained until book four, but if you're caught up with the show, you should be fine.

[spoiler]

As a girl, Cersei seeks out a woman who can tell the future.  This woman indicates that Cersei will die at the hands of "the valonqar" which is high Valyrian for "little brother."

 

Keep in mind that Cersei technically has two little brothers, as she was born before Jaime.  In addition, the maegi says "the valonqar" not "your valonqar," so it really could be anyone who happens to be a little brother.  There's a ton of theories as to who it could be, some more ridiculous than others, Loras, Bran, Sandor, Jaime, Tyrion, Rickon, Theon, Tommen, Stannis, for instance are all little brothers.  But Cersei has convinced herself that it's going to be Tyrion who is her undoing.

 

As to why Cersei heavily believes the prophecy, there was another girl who visited the maegi with her who also received one and it came true.  As more time passes and the parts of the prophecy come true for Cersei, it only makes her hate Tyrion that much more. 

 

[/spoiler]

 

If you read the spoiler note, you know what drives Cersei's hate for Tyrion.  If not, you are at least are well aware that her hatred exists beyond measure.  For Tyrion, he wants to be loved more than anything, and the rejection from his family and from women he loves hurts him more than anything else.  There's an absolute loyalty towards Jaime because his older brother shows him love and respect when the rest of his family does not.  If he dotes on Tommen it's because the young prince is a sweet boy and is nice to his uncle, unlike Joffrey.  Tywin at least gives Tyrion the illusion that he might be able win his father's respect, but Cersei gives none of that, and that is why Tyrion says such hateful things to her in turn.  Without a doubt he puts his foot in his mouth an awful lot around Cersei, but even if he didn't, it wouldn't matter.  Cersei constantly interprets his actions and words to be a direct offense against her, and that's perfectly clear to see even without reading the spoiler or knowing the reason why. 

 

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Why doesn't he just stop being a dwarf?

Cersei hates him. It is gone into better detail later in the series  but he never stood a chance.

Cersei never sees the opportunity she only sees the slight..

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Interesting topic, altough it would be better to discuss this later in the series probably.

Anyway, as for the situation when Tyrion threathens Cersei, I agree with the particular post above which says it was an instant cover manouver for the Shae misunderstanding. That he needed to react freightened in order to make Cersei believe. At least I was feeling it that way when I first read it. Im going for a re-read in couple of weeks, so will come back here :)

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Interesting topic, altough it would be better to discuss this later in the series probably.

Anyway, as for the situation when Tyrion threathens Cersei, I agree with the particular post above which says it was an instant cover manouver for the Shae misunderstanding. That he needed to react freightened in order to make Cersei believe. At least I was feeling it that way when I first read it. Im going for a re-read in couple of weeks, so will come back here :)

This is how I interpreted it: Tyrion went over-the-top on purpose because he did not want to accidentally reveal that Cersei had captured the wrong girl.

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I've always wondered whether the kind gestures she makes toward him were sincere, or was she playing him? IRRC, she even kisses him at one point and thanks him for all his help, in public no less. Meanwhile, Tyrion gives her the shits and seizes Tommen in Rosby.

I don't think Tyrion or Cersei want to befriend each other at this point in their lives. I can imagine that the psych-torture from Cersei growing up was enough to put that off the table.

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From birth, Cersei has despised Tyrion. She contemplated killing him as a babe, if I recall correctly. Their relationship has been beyond repair for some time, and regardless of what Tyrion does Cersei will never trust him. Making her fearful was his meager attempt at revenge, I believe. It worked, really. She became paranoid to the point of insanity.

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On 2. ledna 2016 at 6:25 PM, Silvana said:

From birth, Cersei has despised Tyrion. She contemplated killing him as a babe, if I recall correctly. Their relationship has been beyond repair for some time, and regardless of what Tyrion does Cersei will never trust him. Making her fearful was his meager attempt at revenge, I believe. It worked, really. She became paranoid to the point of insanity.

Yep, altough she was crazy few chapters before it,I think it all started by Tyrion saying to her that their father will not come with his host to defend the city, she was shitscared every single moment after that.

Anyway I was re-reading this chapter today and this all he said after he realised, that he needs to use her mistake (capturing Alayaya), and thats why he behaved over the top, pretending :)

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I agree that it was to cover up the fact that Cersei had the wrong girl, but the sentiment of it is true.

Cersei has never loved, or cared for Tyrion and that's not going to change, ever. There would be no point in trying to befriend, or truly reconcile with her as I am sure she would only throw it back in Tyrion's face. It would take a lot of effort for them to even compromise over matters in the realm let alone any personal truce.

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On 9/12/2016 at 9:59 AM, LittleDove21 said:

I agree that it was to cover up the fact that Cersei had the wrong girl, but the sentiment of it is true.

Cersei has never loved, or cared for Tyrion and that's not going to change, ever. There would be no point in trying to befriend, or truly reconcile with her as I am sure she would only throw it back in Tyrion's face. It would take a lot of effort for them to even compromise over matters in the realm let alone any personal truce.

I can't hella stand Tyrion.  I liked to throw some firts into Tyrion's face.

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Tyrion knows what Cersei is, that she is evil.  He has seen her kill Robert and as Tyrion says, he actually liked Robert.  Cersei has treated Tyrion badly his entire life, since he was a baby, why should Tyrion make friends now?  Tyrion has seen how she treats Joffrey and he pretty much blames her for the way that Joffrey is.  He also dislikes her because quite frankly, she's bad at what she does.  She is a horrible mother and ruler.

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Yes, Cercei irrationally blames Tyrion for their mother's death and always has.  And she has always behaved accordingly toward him with that in mind.  How is Tyrion ever supposed to "get past" that?!  

No, they were never going to be friends. 

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