Mexal Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Ten years ago there were fewer people playing. The feeder leagues worked. WJ did run 1-3, but then he took a year off. But who runs them is irrelevant. Feeder leagues shouldn't be based on importance on the order in which they were started up. That's what I'm trying to say. I have no idea what you're saying. I'll say this pretty simply. Feeder leagues should be open leagues that anyone can join. You start with those and move down the list as we did in the past. It was always Westeros 1-3 then whatever next league then thunderdome then groz. That's how it was. That's the way it should be. Choose a few open leagues, let those be the feeder leagues then move down the list if you need others in case Experts players win. Leave Westeros A the way it is since it's a different type of league. Not all that complicated. The open leagues are always first come first serve. It should remain that way if they're going to be feeder leagues and if they fill up, more people can start another feeder league that's open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskeyjack Posted August 7, 2015 Author Share Posted August 7, 2015 Yeah, I think this should be pretty easy. I'm cool with keeping Westeros A separate. Was never designed to be connected to Experts in the first place. But one question - is the Outlaw League much different from Westeros A? Howdy is similarly giving first preference to the people who were in his league last year. Anyway, the rest of the leagues should just be lined up in whatever order people in Experts think makes the most sense. That's how it's been done every year. Is there really much more to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 I have no idea what you're saying. I'll say this pretty simply. Feeder leagues should be open leagues that anyone can join. You start with those and move down the list as we did in the past. It was always Westeros 1-3 then whatever next league then thunderdome then groz. That's how it was. That's the way it should be. Choose a few open leagues, let those be the feeder leagues then move down the list if you need others in case Experts players win. Leave Westeros A the way it is since it's a different type of league. Not all that complicated. The open leagues are always first come first serve. It should remain that way if they're going to be feeder leagues and if they fill up, more people can start another feeder league that's open. Okay. I'm not going to say were talking apples and oranges. I don't think we are. I think we all agree that feeder leagues need to be ranked and or prioritized. I was attempting to suggest that because WJ got the leagues he's chosen to run up first and filled first that that shouldn't automatically make them 1 and 2 in feeder importance. That is a good point about Outlaw...that it's allowing older players a chance to sign back on before opening it up, however it isn't an exclusive invitation only league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdyphillip Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 Here is my main issue with what has happened this year. WJ's B and C leagues, that has been agreed upon to be feeder leagues to Experts were "opened" for three or four days starting in July and has several of the same players in both of them. I personally think that if we are to have open leagues here, we should at least give a couple of weeks or so for everyone to have a chance to respond, and to have the slots filled with as many different players as is possible. I also think Outlaw and Westeros A, should only feed in the event that winners from B and C are already in Experts. If we could do this, the feeding system would look like this... 1, Thunderdome - This is the hardest league to win as it has 16 people playing. If you win this league, you belong in Experts 2. Westeros B, - First completely open league 3. Westeros C, - second completely open league 4. Westeros Outlaw - A mix of invitation and open 5. Westeros A- Invitation only league. 6. Westeros Dynasty - I rank this at the bottom for the competitive advantage it has as a keeper league If other completely open leagues open up, they should join right under Westeros C bouncing the other three leagues down the ladder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l2 0 5 5 Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 Here is my main issue with what has happened this year. WJ's B and C leagues, that has been agreed upon to be feeder leagues to Experts were "opened" for three or four days starting in July and has several of the same players in both of them. I personally think that if we are to have open leagues here, we should at least give a couple of weeks or so for everyone to have a chance to respond, and to have the slots filled with as many different players as is possible. I also think Outlaw and Westeros A, should only feed in the event that winners from B and C are already in Experts. If we could do this, the feeding system would look like this... 1, Thunderdome - This is the hardest league to win as it has 16 people playing. If you win this league, you belong in Experts 2. Westeros B, - First completely open league 3. Westeros C, - second completely open league 4. Westeros Outlaw - A mix of invitation and open 5. Westeros A- Invitation only league. 6. Westeros Dynasty - I rank this at the bottom for the competitive advantage it has as a keeper league If other completely open leagues open up, they should join right under Westeros C bouncing the other three leagues down the ladder. Pardon my ignorance, but do winners of Westeros B & C typically get invited to draft in Experts? I'm not familiar with "feeder." Apologies. :dunce: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdyphillip Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Pardon my ignorance, but do winners of Westeros B & C typically get invited to draft in Experts? I'm not familiar with "feeder." Apologies. :dunce: Every year, the bottom two teams in the Westeros Experts league are regulated out of the league. The only way to get back in is to win one of the feeder leagues. It is kind of like the English Premiere league in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l2 0 5 5 Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Every year, the bottom two teams in the Westeros Experts league are regulated out of the league. The only way to get back in is to win one of the feeder leagues. It is kind of like the English Premiere league in that regard. Okay that makes sense. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ Lannister Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Every year, the bottom two teams in the Westeros Experts league are regulated out of the league. The only way to get back in is to win one of the feeder leagues. It is kind of like the English Premiere league in that regard. The bottom 3 teams in Experts are knocked out. Mya kept her spot because she won Thunderdome. Groz is invited back because he won Dynasty and Kal declined his invitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdyphillip Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 The bottom 3 teams in Experts are knocked out. Mya kept her spot because she won Thunderdome. Groz is invited back because he won Dynasty and Kal declined his invitation. Just to clarify, is it always three teams, or is it usually two teams but Kal dropped out this year. Also, since you are commishing the league, what is the feeding system that you are currently going by? It was my understanding that dynasty would be the last league that fed because of the competitive advantage of it being a keeper league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ Lannister Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Just to clarify, is it always three teams, or is it usually two teams but Kal dropped out this year. Also, since you are commishing the league, what is the feeding system that you are currently going by? It was my understanding that dynasty would be the last league that fed because of the competitive advantage of it being a keeper league.Yes it's always the bottom 3 that are eliminated and Dynasty is the last inclusion into Experts. I'm thinking the best feeder order to follow this year would be Thunderdome, B, C, Outlaw, A, and Dynasty last. If anyone has another order they think would work better I'm all ears. In my opinion any expert that is eliminated but wins any other league regardless of inclusion order, would automatically retain their spot. Just my opinion on the last part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronn Stone Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 I feel strongly that the ranking system is not the ideal plan and that points should be assigned to leagues, depending on their history, longevity and similarity to standard formats. The year we had eight or nine leagues and I won four of them and nearly missed be elevated to Experts was crucial to my belief in this matter. I also think second and third places should earn some small token amount of points - not enough to match a win, but enough to break ties. Example: W1 winner: 100 points W1 second: 5 points W1 third: 2 points W2 winner: 100 points W2 second: 5 points W2 third: 2 points W3 winner: 100 points W3 second: 5 points W3 third: 2 points Outlaw winner: 95 points Outlaw second: 4 points Outlaw third: 2 points Thunderdome winner: 95 points Thunderdome second: 4 points Thunderdome third: 2 points Dynasty winner: 80 points Dynasty second: 3 points Dynasty third: 1 point Survivor winner: 50 points Survivor second: 2 points Survivor third: 0.1 point (etc). The actual point system would be proposed and discussed, but JJ makes the final call as commish. And I don't give a hoot how much of a chance there is to come in your first year on the boards and make it to Experts. We've gone down that road and had it end badly in the past. People play well then flake in future seasons, missing drafts and not responding to offers. I have NO problem with it being something that is earned over time. There are still enough open slots in the leagues we have to make room for newcomers, but I don't think they necessarily need an equal chance. If you run a league and invite the forum (and if people outside the forum are included, that would reduce the points), you can ask to have it included, and we'd discuss that. The point system makes it more easily scalable to reflect the current size of the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdyphillip Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Bronn A point system like you are describing only works if everyone has access to the same number of leagues. I have already taken issue that the some players are in all three Westeros A, B, and C leagues while other players are completely excluded. Frankly, I am more than a little ticked off about being one of the people excluded, but WJ is taking the time and effort to commish these leagues, and ultimately I have to respect his decisions and his leagues autonomy. I personally feel like it would be completely unfair to feed Experts on such an unlevel playing field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 I can get behind the point system, but Howdy makes a good point on the same people being in extra leagues. I'm not sure if a perfect solution though. Though perhaps multiple leagues with a single commissioner are scaled? As the same people tend to be in the same leagues? Does that make sense? Encourage each commissioner to take different people bergen their first, second, third leagues. ..if that makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronn Stone Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 If the point system is bad, the designated feeder system is worse. If you don't get into any of the top four or five leagues, you are all but doomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ Lannister Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 My proposal for a point system to determine inclusion into Experts for the upcoming year. Thunderdome: 1st- 100 points 2nd- 50 points 3rd- 25 points Westeros C: 1st- 85 points 2nd- 30 points 3rd- 15 points Westeros B: 1st- 75 points 2nd- 20 points 3rd- 10 points Outlaw: 1st- 75 points 2nd- 20 points 3rd- 10 points Westeros A: 1st- 70 points 2nd- 15 points 3rd- 10 points Survivor and Dynasty: 1st- 50 points 2nd- 10 points 3rd- 5 points Any other board leagues that spring up will be taken into consideration for inclusion by current Experts members. If you play in more than 2 leagues, only your top two will be added to your total. Current Experts members that are eliminated, will automatically earn the right to stay if they finish first in A, B, C, Outlaw, or Thunderdome. Experts members please give me your thoughts on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdyphillip Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 I can get behind the point system, but Howdy makes a good point on the same people being in extra leagues. I'm not sure if a perfect solution though. Though perhaps multiple leagues with a single commissioner are scaled? As the same people tend to be in the same leagues? Does that make sense? Encourage each commissioner to take different people bergen their first, second, third leagues. ..if that makes sense. I would like to see this idea elaborated on. I am not quite sure what you are meaning here. I also really understand Bronn's point. If anyone deserved to be included in Experts this year it was him. I just think that it is completely unfair that people double and triple up in leagues while others are excluded. If this can somehow get fixed, I would be on board with a point system. I also think Survivor should have no impact on a point settings as it isn't fantasy football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boiled leather Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 when someone sets up thunderdome and survivor, please let me know. I avoid the board in general these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronn Stone Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 when someone sets up thunderdome and survivor, please let me know. I avoid the board in general these days. Those are mine. Sometime this week, most likely. You will be notified. I am in Experts this year. But thanks. And I like it very much JJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Any update on Dynasty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskeyjack Posted August 10, 2015 Author Share Posted August 10, 2015 Point system sounds good to me, if the group wants to go in that direction. Only comment I'd make is that I think there's a lot of luck involved in Thunderdome. Both on a team basis (one big injury can destroy your season) and on a week to week basis (because of the smaller lineups). It's a challenge, but it doesn't require as much skill as an expanded roster league, in my opinion. And I say that as somebody who has won Thunderdome once, and who has finished among the top 3 in 3/4 of the years I've played in that league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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