Dragonsmurf Posted August 13, 2015 Author Share Posted August 13, 2015 I don't give any other theory a chance because they all fail to explain why Ned hid the identity of Jon's mother. She could have been a highborn lady who Ned didn't want to dishonour, so he took it all on himself. She could have been a commonor who died after Jon's birth and Ned was so devestated he never wanted to speak of it again. She could have been a prostitute and Ned felt so damn ashamed of it that he didn't want anyone to know. Or a hundred other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Besides, if you believe R+L=J to be 99,9% true, are you reading the books with an open mind? Are you giving other theories a chance? From what I have seen on this forum, any other theory about Jon's parentage than R+L=J hardly ever get a chance at all. Apparently you haven't done your reading (hardly a surprise.) You know those R+L=J threads that so many people like to knock? They have a direct link to this; it's a write up that goes over not just Rhaegar and Lyanna, but many others in regards to being Jon's parents. If people don't accept other alternatives, it's because those ones have already been put to the test and failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Besides, if you believe R+L=J to be 99,9% true, are you reading the books with an open mind? Are you giving other theories a chance? From what I have seen on this forum, any other theory about Jon's parentage than R+L=J hardly ever get a chance at all. Ah, the good old prejudice card, so darn tempting to play. It's like Cersei with her "oh, they dislike me because I'm a woman" (not quite, m'lady; we dislike you because you suck). If you feel a particular theory isn't given a chance, it's probably because it sucks, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joluoto2 Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 The main reason jon won't become king is that he wouldn't want any throne, and he honestly deserves better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonsmurf Posted August 13, 2015 Author Share Posted August 13, 2015 Ah, the good old prejudice card, so darn tempting to play. It's like Cersei with her "oh, they dislike me because I'm a woman" (not quite, m'lady; we dislike you because you suck). If you feel a particular theory isn't given a chance, it's probably because it sucks, too. Does the theory about Ned being Jon's father suck? Why? Because it's too boring, not epic enough, or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sage of Westeros Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I am a believer in R+L=J yet I can't see Jon riding south to take his alleged birthright which would be out of character. Riding south to fight Ramsay also seemed out of character considering he is willing to let men like the Weeper south yet decides to fight Ramsay. He also refused the north, why would he accept the Iron Throne? True he refused the north because of his strong faith in the Old Gods, and being revived might make him zealous for Rhllor. But all other claimants for the throne have an army whereas he has a small force of wildlings, plus his honor is too important for him to want to seek the throne. Not to look over the fact that people wouldn't be inclined to believe R+L=J when some don't even believe in the incest kings or (F)Aegon. Jon will live and die (again?) at his post while others lay claim to the throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Does the theory about Ned being Jon's father suck? Why? Because it's too boring, not epic enough, or what? No, and it obviously has been given a fair chance, too, so your objection hardly applies. Yet the fact that the Ned was careful to never, ever, not even once think of Jon Snow as his son is one of many things that makes it implausible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berric_Dondiedagain Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 (Jon Snow) "...something of the way of the Free folk". "Free. Corn. King." (raven) "Corn. King. Snow. Jon Snow" (Raven, no prompting)- He's the King of something!- My guess is its not the Iron Throne but more in the fashion of "King of the Free Folk" like Mance. He IS the one that saved them all from Winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRLR Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 It's true that I'm not a believe of R+L=J, but I keep the door open. And by that I don't mean I think I will be convinced by other fans on this forum, but I won't be totally shocked if GRRM reveals it in the upcoming books. By logic, they weren't possibly validity married. Marriage, at least in such societies, is a social contract that demands social recognition. Rhaegar and Lyanna didn't have that. But of course, Rhaegar could regard Lyanna as his one true love and the one he was destined to marry and therefore commanding the KG to guard her. What? If they were married, all it takes is a piece of evidence that will prove they are married and people will recognize it. There's no need for everyone in Westeros to witness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 What? If they were married, all it takes is a piece of evidence that will prove they are married and people will recognize it. There's no need for everyone in Westeros to witness. Well except for the little fact that Rhaegar was already married. It seriously baffles me that people think everyone in Westeros is going to be so accepting of polygamy again, despite the fact it hasn't been around for a couple of centuries and despite the fact that the author himself has said that when the Targs had dragons they could do whatever they want, without dragons.. not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRLR Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Besides, if you believe R+L=J to be 99,9% true, are you reading the books with an open mind? Are you giving other theories a chance? From what I have seen on this forum, any other theory about Jon's parentage than R+L=J hardly ever get a chance at all. Other Jon Snow parentage theories were given a chance and they were examined but were dismissed by most readers because they don't really stand up to scrutiny especially when you compare it with R+L=J. That's just the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gi_Varotti Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I'm on the R+L=J side but I don't understand how Jon'd be king (I get the parentage part). He could, sure, if he fought for it like Dany's trying to do but would he want to be king? I mean, he can't just pop up in KL saying that he's Rhaegar's kid and take the throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Jon is legitimate or the KG wouldn't have been at the ToJ. They didn't need to be there to look after Lyanna and a prince's bastard, they could have sent to Starfall to send people to look after Lyanna while they took a ship to Dragonstone. Their response as to why they weren't on Dragonstone was as Hightower stated "We swore a vow." That same man told Jaime "You swore a vow to guard the king not judge him." The vow of the KG is to guard the king, and had Jon been a bastard that answer to Ned's question wouldn't have made sense, but it would if Jon was legitimate. The Kingsguard doesn't get to decide who is legitimate. They may believe it and Rhaegar may believe it as well but I am pretty sure the only person that could have legitimized Jon was King Aerys and I have a feeling this never happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRLR Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Well except for the little fact that Rhaegar was already married. It seriously baffles me that people think everyone in Westeros is going to be so accepting of polygamy again, despite the fact it hasn't been around for a couple of centuries and despite the fact that the author himself has said that when the Targs had dragons they could do whatever they want, without dragons.. not so much. I honestly do not think the common folk would care about whether Rhaegar engaged in polygamy or not. If they see that Jon or whoever can get them out of the threat of the Others (or maybe he had already neutralized), they probably wouldn't care if Rhaeger married another woman especially if there's evidence that Elia was in on it. In the same way that his bastard status would get in the way of him becoming king if he was able to defeat the Others. But I would say that it's the noble houses who would have a problem with the polygamy part or his bastard status. But again, they might not have a problem with it but if the Great Council would convene and decide on whether he can be king or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonsmurf Posted August 13, 2015 Author Share Posted August 13, 2015 What? If they were married, all it takes is a piece of evidence that will prove they are married and people will recognize it. There's no need for everyone in Westeros to witness. There is no proof in them being married, because the recognition IS the proof... Even if a ceremony took place and there is evidence for that, there was no social recognition in the marriage at the time, thus making it invalid. A secret marriage isn't a marriage at all in Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unknown42 Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I believe R+L=J is most likely true. That, doesn't mean, however, that Jon will sit on the IT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Viserys Targaryen IV Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I think R+L=J CAN be true, but I think many fans are taking the search for evidence too far. I mean, a quote from Robert Baratheon talking about kings and Snow, come one? How is that an evidence? I suppose Robert wouldn't know about R+L=J even if it was true. That is not evidence that Jon is Rhaegar's son, that is foreshadowing that Jon will be King. Evidence and foreshadowing are two different things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimim Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I believe r+l, but I doubt very much that Jon will be king. First, it's highly unlikely that he'll want it. Then, imo he's dead, and who knows what shape he'll be in when he returns. Also, he's a bastard, whether as Ned's or Rhaegar's son, and that does make a difference. Had Joff been Robert's son, there wouldn't have been a war of the five kings. I get that Rhaegar might have married Lyanna, which would make Rhaegar a bigamist. It's highly unlikely that the Seven Kingdoms would accept such a thing as legit, and if we're thinking that Jon will have access to dragons at this point to push his claim, then we're back to big overpowered family conquers the place. I'm kinda sick of Targs and their claims to the throne based on their dragons. I'm also sick of the great families, their manipulators and manipulations, and the game in general. At this point, the white walkers are looking like a breath of fresh, minty, frozen northern air in comparison. If it all has to end with someone on the throne, then please let it be Davos, who is neither Targ, nor member of any great family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonsmurf Posted August 13, 2015 Author Share Posted August 13, 2015 I think many people are forgetting the stigma that comes with bastardy... Bastards are even common believed to have certain personality traits(traits that doesn't really fit a king). Even legitimized bastards are sometmes frowned upon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Viserys Targaryen IV Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I think many people are forgetting the stigma that comes with bastardy... Bastards are even common believed to have certain personality traits(traits that doesn't really fit a king). Even legitimized bastards are sometmes frowned upon. But what if Jon is neither a bastard or a Legitimized Bastard but a true born Targaryen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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