Fashion thread: updating classics

[MercenaryChef]

On 9/13/2016 at 10:50 PM, kairparavel said:

I've been tasked with picking the shirt. GREAT.

I like this

https://avantishirts.com/collections/modern/products/pareau-burgundy

And these

https://avantishirts.com/collections/vintage/products/blue-hawaii-blue

https://avantishirts.com/collections/vintage/products/pineapple

https://avantishirts.com/collections/men/products/blue-hawaii-rayon-red

Thoughts? 

 

Went with the sweet blue one. 

It shipped from......wait for it......Hawaii!

I feel like a tool.

 

[Inigima]

Who has good men's sweaters these days? The current trends I'm seeing look like they're for high school kids.

[Iskaral Pust]

53 minutes ago, Inigima said:

Who has good men's sweaters these days? The current trends I'm seeing look like they're for high school kids.

What type do you want?  I got some ok v-neck sweaters from Banana Republic in a mix of solid colors.  Lightweight and pretty fitted, good for wearing layers over a dress shirt in the office in winter. 

I have a couple of older, thicker crew-neck sweaters that I wear with jeans for a more casual look.  But I haven't needed a replacement or upgrade in a long time.  

I see some people with more daring styles of sweaters.  I'm a pretty conservative/understated dresser. 

[Datepalm]

Is jeans and sneakers ok for an academic conference (USA)? Where I have a few semi-interviewish type things? Now what if these are slightly less than pristine jeans and some especially well travelled sneakers? (I assume sweater over collared shirt is universal for dork-makes-a-visible-effort?)

[Inigima]

8 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

What type do you want?  I got some ok v-neck sweaters from Banana Republic in a mix of solid colors.  Lightweight and pretty fitted, good for wearing layers over a dress shirt in the office in winter. 

I have a couple of older, thicker crew-neck sweaters that I wear with jeans for a more casual look.  But I haven't needed a replacement or upgrade in a long time.  

I see some people with more daring styles of sweaters.  I'm a pretty conservative/understated dresser. 

Solid would be fine, I just haven't seen much that I liked. I am looking at two stores I swear I looked at last night, and Banana was one of them, and didn't see any that I liked; I'm looking now and I'm seeing some at both that I liked.

I would love to get away from solids but I am not sure anyone has designed anything outside of the "horizontal stripes for 14 year olds" and "ugly Christmas sweater, but year round" categories. I'm not sure what a non-solid I would like would look like, I just know I'm not seeing it.

 

7 hours ago, Datepalm said:

Is jeans and sneakers ok for an academic conference (USA)? Where I have a few semi-interviewish type things? Now what if these are slightly less than pristine jeans and some especially well travelled sneakers? (I assume sweater over collared shirt is universal for dork-makes-a-visible-effort?)

Er, I'm not an academic and I don't know for sure but I wouldn't be caught dead turning up like that for a conference. I would turn up in business casual at a minimum, maybe business.

[Xray the Enforcer]

7 hours ago, Datepalm said:

Is jeans and sneakers ok for an academic conference (USA)? Where I have a few semi-interviewish type things? Now what if these are slightly less than pristine jeans and some especially well travelled sneakers? (I assume sweater over collared shirt is universal for dork-makes-a-visible-effort?)

Nope. This would not be OK in any of the academic conferences I've attended (yea verily, even as a broke grad student). Gotta invest in some decent trousers and shoes. I do not think you will need a blazer/jacket, provided that the shirt and sweater are business-appropriate. 

[Angalin]

7 hours ago, Datepalm said:

Is jeans and sneakers ok for an academic conference (USA)? Where I have a few semi-interviewish type things? Now what if these are slightly less than pristine jeans and some especially well travelled sneakers? (I assume sweater over collared shirt is universal for dork-makes-a-visible-effort?)

What Xray said about trousers and shoes. If you get a pair of ankle boots, Chelsea or something, you can wear them in a bunch of settings as long as they're polished. The sweater over collared shirt is practically an Oxford uniform, just make sure they're clean and tidy without any pills or holes. 

[Datepalm]

All right, I'll take that as gospel. Proper clothes it is - there was a bit of a divergence of opinion on the OKness of jeans around here. (My sneakers were deemed fit only for burning under all circumstances by all involved .) Off to Goodwill! Would a skirt do in place of slacks? I always feel really awkward in slacks. 

[Whitestripe]

Skirt would be fine, but not too short or too tight. Business casual is your guide here.   Do not wear jeans and sneakers.

[Iskaral Pust]

5 hours ago, Inigima said:

Solid would be fine, I just haven't seen much that I liked. I am looking at two stores I swear I looked at last night, and Banana was one of them, and didn't see any that I liked; I'm looking now and I'm seeing some at both that I liked.

I would love to get away from solids but I am not sure anyone has designed anything outside of the "horizontal stripes for 14 year olds" and "ugly Christmas sweater, but year round" categories. I'm not sure what a non-solid I would like would look like, I just know I'm not seeing it.

I hear you.  I did get one sweater with broad horizontal stripes: two colors (light grey and wine), total of 5-6 stripes in the entire vertical span of the sweater.  It had more color interest than the solids without the eyesore of narrow stripes or general sweater ugliness.

Solids can be ok if you use a bolder shirt pattern underneath, use a v-neck to expose more of the shirt contrast, and use a reasonably bold/contrasting sweater color.  But even so it all feels a bit dull.

Sweaters have an uphill struggle generally.  They don't offer clean lines & well fitted shape like a shirt and jacket, and their fabric doesn't have the detail and interest of a shirt and jacket.  So they generally look pretty frumpy.  Plus the texture of a wool sweater generally creates an image of a warm, soft, comfortable presence.  A properly ironed cotton dress shirt or a well tailored wool jacket create an image of sleek, crisp precision.

[Datepalm]

Wow I am bad at this. You know, I thought I was, like, a fairly bright person, but I just googled 'business casual' and could have spent the rest of the day on it. What the hell is the difference between Khakis and Chinos, for heaven's sake? How is either of those substantively different from beige-colored jeans? Does the 'no jeans' rule just really mean 'no traditional blue denim', and pants cut in the what I think of as a jeans-way - zipper, button, separate waistband - and of a similar weight fabric are actually fine so long as it doesn't look like you're off to the copper mine? 

I kept trying to put together a straightforward blouse+pants outfit ahead of this, since I knew I was going to be in a small town in the US, every time I walked past a mall in India, and I could never seem to not end up looking like a cartoon flight attendant and so here I am, trying to work it out in a town who's total shopping options are three yarn shops, a steampunk store, an actual hat shop and six places selling apparently nothing but plaid flannel shirts and hiking boots (which, of course, I am attracted to like a magnet.) 

ETA - I like sweaters.

[Inigima]

I can't help you with women's business casual, but I can help with chinos/khakis. I believe chinos used to denote a specific fabric (cotton twill?), but no longer do. Khakis are chinos in a khaki color; all khakis are chinos, but not all chinos are khakis.

Edit: All jeans are denim and are inappropriate for business casual in most environments, regardless of color.

[Datepalm]

Well, for example, this turns up in a google for 'women's chino's', and all but the center one I would say are 'jeans like', and look like they're of a similar texture, fabric weight, shape and fit to jeans, just a different color and not strictly denim fabric. And even the center one strikes me as so-so - the zipper is in the middle, there's a button and a waistband, etc. which I'm trying to figure out the appropriateness of. Whereas proper pants I guess look something like this, regardless of color - zipper is hidden or off to the side, slit pockets if any, loose around hips and front, seems like a lighter weight fabric.

[Whitestripe]

Datepalm: Chinos/khakis are pretty much the same. The material of chinos (for ladies anyway) tends to be a bit more causal than the material of dress pants/trousers

Are you in the US now? Where are you? If you have already arrived in the US, you can't be too far away from a mall. If you really are stuck, you can probably find something in the clothing section of Target. (not that I would recommend Target for your general business wardrobe but if you are really in a pinch, can't find a mall and have a limited budget it's a good last resort)  If you are struggling with the shirt/sweater/trouser option, try for a skirt or dress. They are easier to fit anyway. I would go with a basic black bottom. You can wear that day or night and it looks a bit more professional than tan.

This link should also help.

 

 

 

 

 

[ljkeane]

16 minutes ago, Datepalm said:

Well, for example, this turns up in a google for 'women's chino's', and all but the center one I would say are 'jeans like', and look like they're of a similar texture, fabric weight, shape and fit to jeans, just a different color and not strictly denim fabric.

It's just the material. Chinos don't tend to have jeans cut pockets either but I'm sure you could probably get some if you wanted to.

[Datepalm]

I'm in a little town a couple hours out of Seattle, and there apparently isn't a Target an hour in any direction! (good for this place, I guess, but slightly impractical if you don't have a car.) I've got a trip to Seattle next week, but that's cutting it a bit last minute (day in advance) and I have a bunch of other errands while I'm there, so trying to see what I can scrounge up locally first. Mostly aiming for a skirt, since I will probably never wear those hypothetical beige-colored non-jeans again. Well, until the next time I'm in the US. (I actually own one pair of proper pants, which were bought specifically for, and worn exactly once, to meet the mayor of Lubumbashi. Sadly they're in Israel.)

I figure I'm making more of a deal of this than it is really, but I really don't like shopping and am not much for thinking about clothes (and jeans would be appropriate in Israel and I'd be done) and don't have the easier figure to shop for either, so I feel awkward, blobby and self-conscious in most pants, which I don't want to be for days (and interviews) on end. So trying to figure out the whole breadth of my options here and come to an accommodation I can handle with some degree of comfort and grace. And can buy in a steampunk store .

[Inigima]

Please do not buy clothing in a steampunk store. Please do not buy anything in a steampunk store.

[Iskaral Pust]

2 hours ago, Datepalm said:

Well, for example, this turns up in a google for 'women's chino's', and all but the center one I would say are 'jeans like', and look like they're of a similar texture, fabric weight, shape and fit to jeans, just a different color and not strictly denim fabric. And even the center one strikes me as so-so - the zipper is in the middle, there's a button and a waistband, etc. which I'm trying to figure out the appropriateness of. Whereas proper pants I guess look something like this, regardless of color - zipper is hidden or off to the side, slit pockets if any, loose around hips and front, seems like a lighter weight fabric.

In your first link, only the center pair would be business casual.  The others are much too casual.  Your second link is business casual.  In both cases, selecting a light khaki color puts you on the casual end of business casual, especially outside of summer.  Darker colors are less casual.  Business casual generally means professional business wear but exclude the more formal trappings like a tie, matched suit, or even discard the jacket entirely.  So a dress shirt/blouse combined with dress pants/skirt and dress shoes, possibly add a jacket that is not matched to your pants/skirt.

Rule of thumb: fabrics that are thick, soft & unstructured are too casual for business casual pants.  Twill, denim, most cotton, etc.  Business casual pants should use fabric capable of sustaining a steam-pressed front seam, typically worsted wool for men in northern climes.  Women's pants are often a wool/polyester blend or even include a some stretchy fabric in the blend.  Nothing too tight like yoga pants, nothing too short like capris, nothing too low cut like teenager jeans.

I know women's clothing guidelines for business wear are a lot more ambiguous than for men -- although that ambiguity is also an added degree of freedom for you -- but it should be pretty easy to gauge if something is professional versus casual.  The tricky one can be deciding if a dress needs a jacket to make it more business and less sexy/evening.  I can remember when I was a student being a bit mystified from my own lack of exposure about what made the grade for business wear, but there are now literally millions of images available online for you to get a sense of what is expected.  You no longer need the experience of immersion to judge these things.  Just type "business casual for women" into google image.  Don't get too specific, just absorb the general aesthetic before you shop.

There is no need to stress this.  It will take you no more than ten minutes in Seattle to walk into Macy's and buy an inexpensive business casual outfit.  Nordstrom's is right there too if you want better quality for a higher price.

[Datepalm]

The main part of this is just, well, I don't dress like that. I feel uncomfortable in all of the above and am basically trying to figure out how to avoid it. (Also, a simple google image search turns up very much the casual end of what you're describing for the most part - pants that look to fit like jeans and fairly casual looking button down tops, sweaters, etc.)

Apart from the steampunk shop, there is also some kind of witch shop and a celtic wear (I don't quite know what that is, as such. A lot of it is green,) shop. (There is ONE street in this town. That's what's on it.) None of those were promising, but then I found one that was, but then my laptop got stolen while I was in there, so that's that experience of small town America. (It's the first time i've ever had anything stolen, including all various travels.)  I'm kind of impressed by the brazeness of it - they must have gone through my bag literally while my back was turned and casually walked out. (And insurance doesn't cover it, apparently, which sucks as it was pretty new ) And my basically antique kindle, which I'm oddly more upset about. Well, I got to call the police and have them show up and look grave and file a report and everything, which was kind of an experience, I guess. 

Point being, it's completely taken the wind out of my sails about the shopping for clothes thing, which was was weak and only barely blowing in the right direction to begin with. Grr, now I have to go do the whole thing some more.

[Datepalm]

THIS turns up in the first four rows of an image search for business casual, for heavens sake.