Fool's Quest

[SeanF]

On ‎4‎/‎29‎/‎2016 at 1:37 AM, kimim said:

I'd like to know what the situation was like in the past. Did past elderlings subjugate humans? Chalcedeans see them as enemies, but Chalcedeans aren't reliable. The Six Duchies think of them as saviors, and maybe their myth recalls reality. I agree that we won't know, as Hobb is unlikely to explore long-term repercussions in Assassin's Fate. She might get into it in future books, though.

My take is pessimistic: If you have two human groups living in the same region, one group far more powerful than the other, the weaker group is in for a lot of pain. I'm not sure if ancestral memories will help; when these elderlings access their magic, they will be far more powerful than their neighbors. Cultural similarity, ancestral memory are no barrier to war.

...and yes, we need a World of Ice and Fire for Hobb's world.

 

I expect that even in their heyday, neither dragons nor elderlings were especially numerous.  Elderlings in particular, have difficulty in reproducing, and the gestation period of dragons seems to take years.  Combined with the fact that elderling cities were often at war with each other, that would limit their ability to subjugate the far more numerous humans.

Mercor seems to recognise this when he warns his fellow dragons to be proportionate in their retaliation against Chalced, because humans are so numerous they could destroy them if they go too far

.

Humans have numbers on their side.  Dragons and elderlings who tried to subjugate them would face the same situation as Colonel Kleist described, when the Germans invaded Russia.  He compared the German army to an elephant fighting an army of ants.  The elephant may kill thousands, perhaps millions of ants, but ultimately the ants will overwhelm the elephant and eat it down to the bone.

[SeanF]

I've finished the Rainwilds Chronicles, and started on Fitz and the Fool.

TBH, I thought the Rainwilds was quite good, but definitely not as good as either Farseer, or Liveships, and a step down from the Tawny Man trilogy.  There were parts I really loved, such as

the deaths of Hest and Jess, descriptions of Kelsingra, the flight of the dragons over Chalced

but, I think the story dragged on too long, and there was too much teenage angst for my liking.

OTOH, I thought Fool's Assassin was outstanding.  Really gripping, and sad too

Molly's apparent senility and eventual death

with a really good cliffhanger at the end.  Poor Fool!  He really has had appalling things done to him in his life.  Fitz is typically obtuse, but that's just Fitz, and a part of his character.  I'm looking forward to starting Fool's Quest.

[jurble]

On 4/29/2016 at 1:53 PM, kimim said:

Was Taker an elderling who survived the elderling apocalypse, and kept some elderling traditions alive in Six Duchies?

 

Yeah, probably, or Elderling-blooded.  It's said somewhere in the series that the Skill comes from dragons, so everyone with the Skill gained it because they have Elderling ancestors at some point.  In the flashbacks in Rain Wilds, I believe, we see the Elderlings fleeing their cities.  They don't go down with the ship - they take the portals and presumably breed with regular humans. Without dragons or Skilled people to change them, their surviving non-mutant offspring come out as humans.

I've speculated that Tellator might be Fitz' ancestor either Taker or Taker's father.  Hobb has given most of her characters fairly happy endings, but Rapskal is still stuck, trapped as Tellator - but Tellator's life didn't end where Rapskal's memories end.  It might offer him sort of resolution or help move past Tellator if there were some connection between Fitz and Tellator.

[Slick Mongoose]

On 12/06/2016 at 6:13 PM, Calibandar said:

Book 3 , Assassin's Fate, now scheduled for March 2017, pretty much as expected:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Assassins-Fate-Book-Fitz-trilogy/dp/0553392956/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1465751167&sr=1-3

Nice to hear, thanks.

[Darth Richard II]

Ha, yeah, regarding RainWilds

Spoiler

Hest getting eaten, i LOOOVED that, something about it was so appropriately anti climatic. Like, you think you're big shit? nah, ima eat you.

 

[SeanF]

10 hours ago, Damned with the Wind said:

Yeah, probably, or Elderling-blooded.  It's said somewhere in the series that the Skill comes from dragons, so everyone with the Skill gained it because they have Elderling ancestors at some point.  In the flashbacks in Rain Wilds, I believe, we see the Elderlings fleeing their cities.  They don't go down with the ship - they take the portals and presumably breed with regular humans. Without dragons or Skilled people to change them, their surviving non-mutant offspring come out as humans.

I've speculated that Tellator might be Fitz' ancestor either Taker or Taker's father.  Hobb has given most of her characters fairly happy endings, but Rapskal is still stuck, trapped as Tellator - but Tellator's life didn't end where Rapskal's memories end.  It might offer him sort of resolution or help move past Tellator if there were some connection between Fitz and Tellator.

The rule of the Farseers overlapped with the heyday of the elderlings (King Wisdom went to treat with them).  I think that some Farseers must have interbred with elderlngs, though, in order to possess the Skill.  And, I don't doubt that some surviving elderlings ended up interbreeding with humans. 

[SeanF]

8 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

Ha, yeah, regarding RainWilds

  Hide contents

Hest getting eaten, i LOOOVED that, something about it was so appropriately anti climatic. Like, you think you're big shit? nah, ima eat you.

 

I read it three times, and laughed out loud.

"I have a name for you"  "Glory's Master or Silver Rider?"  "Meat!"  And, even after his leg has been bitten off, Hest's main worry is appearing as a cripple in Bingtown society. [?Spoiler]

 

[HexMachina]

8 hours ago, SeanF said:

The rule of the Farseers overlapped with the heyday of the elderlings (King Wisdom went to treat with them).  I think that some Farseers must have interbred with elderlngs, though, in order to possess the Skill.  And, I don't doubt that some surviving elderlings ended up interbreeding with humans. 

I'm not entirely sure about that actually. It's possible his "treating with the Elderlings" was really just him managing to carve a dragon, the Elderlings could actually have been dead by then.

I've no doubt there is Elderlings blood in the Farseer line (I'm almost certain that the Fool says as much actually). But I don't think Tellator is Taker/Taker's father.

Also, being an Elderlings doesn't seem to gift the Skill automatically. Otherwise Malta, Reyn, and the Keepers should have showed some affinity for it. To the best of my recollection they didn't. I suppose it could just be the case that they are unaware how to use it, so it's lying dormant. Actually, I think I speculated earlier 

that trade will be opened with Kelsingra by the end of the series. They are holding out for now, but Fitz just discovered something the Six Duchies has (The Skill, and the ability to teach it) that the Elderlings of Kelsingra need

[SeanF]

On ‎8‎/‎5‎/‎2016 at 7:13 PM, HelenaExMachina said:

I'm not entirely sure about that actually. It's possible his "treating with the Elderlings" was really just him managing to carve a dragon, the Elderlings could actually have been dead by then.

I've no doubt there is Elderlings blood in the Farseer line (I'm almost certain that the Fool says as much actually). But I don't think Tellator is Taker/Taker's father.

Also, being an Elderlings doesn't seem to gift the Skill automatically. Otherwise Malta, Reyn, and the Keepers should have showed some affinity for it. To the best of my recollection they didn't. I suppose it could just be the case that they are unaware how to use it, so it's lying dormant. Actually, I think I speculated earlier 

 

  Hide contents

that trade will be opened with Kelsingra by the end of the series. They are holding out for now, but Fitz just discovered something the Six Duchies has (The Skill, and the ability to teach it) that the Elderlings of Kelsingra need

 

That could be right.  Fitz seems to use the term "Elderling" both to describe dragon-changed humans, like Malta and Reyn, and the stone dragons like Verity and Girl on a Dragon.

The Skill exists in physical form in Kelsingra, so perhaps the Elderlings could use it

 

[SeanF]

I've finished Fool's Assassin, and really enjoyed it.  This series is a real return to form, as good as Liveships in my view.

Fitz is considerably more ruthless in this series than in previous ones.  In the first book of

The Tawny Man trilogy, both Nighteyes and the Fool freaked out when Fitz intended to beat a confession out of a traitor.  This time round, Fitz has no qualms about torturing Ellick and Hogen (not that they merit any sympathy).  Nor is there any reason to think the Fool would be bothered if he were to be told about this.  He wants vengeance.

It's noteable that Kelsingra is no rose garden.  The dragons are mostly self-interested;  Rapskal is a trouble-maker, Elderling children suffer all kinds of deformities, and there is now a  rigid class structure now in place, which is ironic given how the Keepers were seeking to make a life free of previous restraints.

I suppose that Fitz and the Fool will attempt to persuade the Elderlings that Clerres is a common enemy to them and the Six Duchies.

 

[kimim]

On 8/4/2016 at 4:31 AM, SeanF said:

Humans have numbers on their side.  Dragons and elderlings who tried to subjugate them would face the same situation as Colonel Kleist described, when the Germans invaded Russia.  He compared the German army to an elephant fighting an army of ants.  The elephant may kill thousands, perhaps millions of ants, but ultimately the ants will overwhelm the elephant and eat it down to the bone.

The elderlings are far more technologically advanced, if you consider dragons and silver technology. They have an air force and healing skills, plus whatever else silver does for them. The meeting of elderlings vs humans would be less like Germans vs Russians, who were more or less on the same level in technology, and more like Spaniards vs South-Central Americans. btw I'm not thinking of present-day elderlings, who are obviously unaware of their power, but elderlings who finally figure out what to do with the Silver.

I've speculated that Tellator might be Fitz' ancestor either Taker or Taker's father.

"Taker," certainly fits Tellator's character.

[1000th Lord Commander]

I've read both books, and am not in love with the series.

I've read the other 4 series set in the world, and think that it feels a bit like beating a dead horse. After everything he's been through, I thought Fitz deserved a nice retirement. His first ending was peaceful enough, if not particularly happy. His second ending was a nice happy one, with a little bittersweetness due to the ending with the Fool.

I think there's too much attempts to rewrite the established backstory for the sake of narrative convenience.

Spoiler

There's now Elderling ruins under Buckeep castle. Fitz was appointed as Verity's heir, with a crown to match.

That being said, there are points of the story I genuinely enjoy. Fitz meeting up with the Elderlings was a great addition to the book. Bee is a good addition, with an insight into how the white prophets work, even though I feel she is under utilized in the second book.

So I think it's a bit hit and miss. I would like to see a return to the Pirate Isles, see what Wintrow has been up to. Revisiting the Six Duchies might have been better based around Nettle, perhaps, with her father only as a minor charchter

Anyone else have similar thoughts?

[Nails77]

I just finished a re-read of the Rain Wilds books, which I enjoyed much more the 2nd time through - maybe because i read more slowly and took the time to appreciate the ties to the other books in the RotE world and bits of lore about dragons/Others/etc.  Soon I will re-read the first two books of this series to prep for the new book.  

I can relate a bit to the idea that Hobb should have left Fitz alone after giving him an ending in Tawny Man books that was happy and peaceful. At the same time, I'll keep happily reading about these characters and some of the big moments -

Spoiler

Fitz being recognized formally, meeting the Elderings

- are awesome.  

I hope she continues to write in this world - the Pirate Isles and even Kelsingra I'm sure hold many more stories.

[Buckwheat]

On 19. 8. 2016 at 0:43 PM, 1000th Lord Commander said:

 

So I think it's a bit hit and miss. I would like to see a return to the Pirate Isles, see what Wintrow has been up to. Revisiting the Six Duchies might have been better based around Nettle, perhaps, with her father only as a minor charchter

Anyone else have similar thoughts?

I wished to read more about Nettle's youth as well, but I cannot say I was disappointed in the last two books in any way. I like Bee very much as a POV character and hope to see more of her in the last book.

[HexMachina]

20 minutes ago, Buckwheat said:

I wished to read more about Nettle's youth as well, but I cannot say I was disappointed in the last two books in any way. I like Bee very much as a POV character and hope to see more of her in the last book.

I don't doubt we will. I really hope we open on her POV given the cliffhanger the last novel ended on.

I also think we will see Wintrow in the next novel, and possibly some other Liveships characters. Fitz and co. Need to head South to Clerres, and Hobb has been bringing in a lot of characters from the previous trilogies, so i think she will here too. If not Wintrow, then Brashen and Althea, probably. (This is assuming ship travel is involved, rather than dragon riding or Skill Pillars)

[Buckwheat]

Rather Wintrow than Brashen and Althea ... I do not need to see Brashen and Althea as a happy married couple with a bunch of happy children on their not-crazy-anymore ship. I loved their adventures in Liveship Traders and the scenes with them in Rain Wilds seemed too wordly and ordinary for their life somehow - I mean, they surely deserve the happiest ending and all, but they were supposed to stay young and adventurous and never settling in the story - if that makes sense!

But then, they are two of my favourite characters, so I will happily read absolutely anything she decides to write about them. And Wintrow bored me a few times.

[HexMachina]

I found Wintrow more interesting as a window into the characters and events around him than a character in his own right. I did appreciate his overall arc though.

 

[kimim]

 

On 8/19/2016 at 5:43 AM, 1000th Lord Commander said:

I've read both books, and am not in love with the series.

I've read the other 4 series set in the world, and think that it feels a bit like beating a dead horse. After everything he's been through, I thought Fitz deserved a nice retirement. His first ending was peaceful enough, if not particularly happy. His second ending was a nice happy one, with a little bittersweetness due to the ending with the Fool.

I think there's too much attempts to rewrite the established backstory for the sake of narrative convenience.

...

I can see that, kind of...but then I got into these books after Fool's Quest was published, so never got a chance to finish Fool's Fate and spend years believing that this was "the end" for Fitz. Fitz never struck me as a character capable of relaxing into a nice, happy retirement, anyway. So, for me, Fitz's "I am content" sounded very much like "I am content" from the ending of the previous trilogy: Ominous, rather than "happy."

[Calibandar]

And now the synopsis for Assassin's Fate as well. UK release date also set for May 2017 now, updated their listing, same as US date.

Amazingly the book is now listed as being over a 1,000 pages on Amazon UK, I wonder if that will turn out to be roughly correct.

It is true that previous closing volumes in the Fitz series have been very long, but not this massive. Then again the synopsis seems to suggest a great amount of story.

 

Spoiler

The final book in the Fitz and the Fool trilogy.

Prince FitzChivalry Farseer’s daughter Bee was violently abducted from Withywoods by Servants of the Four in their search for the Unexpected Son, foretold to wield great power. With Fitz in pursuit, the Servants fled through a Skill-pillar, leaving no trace. It seems certain that they and their young hostage have perished in the Skill-river.

Clerres, where White Prophets were trained by the Servants to set the world on a better path, has been corrupted by greed. Fitz is determined to reach the city and take vengeance on the Four, not only for the loss of Bee but also for their torture of the Fool. Accompanied by FitzVigilant, son of the assassin Chade, Chade’s protégé Spark and the stableboy Perseverance, Bee's only friend, their journey will take them from the Elderling city of Kelsingra, down the perilous Rain Wild River, and on to the Pirate Isles.

Their mission for revenge will become a voyage of discovery, as well as of reunions, transformations and heartrending shocks. Startling answers to old mysteries are revealed. What became of the liveships Paragon and Vivacia and their crews? What is the origin of the Others and their eerie beach? How are liveships and dragons connected?

But Fitz and his followers are not the only ones with a deadly grudge against the Four. An ancient wrong will bring them unlikely and dangerous allies in their quest. And if the corrupt society of Clerres is to be brought down, Fitz and the Fool will have to make a series of profound and fateful sacrifices.

ASSASSIN’S FATE is a magnificent tour de force and with it Robin Hobb demonstrates yet again that she is the reigning queen of epic fantasy.

 

[Jussi]

8 minutes ago, Calibandar said:

Amazingly the book is now listed as being over a 1,000 pages on Amazon UK, I wonder if that will turn out to be roughly correct.

Also in the publisher's database:

https://www.harpercollins.co.uk/9780007444250/assassins-fate

Pages: 1008