On the show, are Sansa and Jon destined for each other's arms?

[Jellyfish]

 

Yes, this. He's isolated her, in many ways, through destroying her family, through regicide, through fear. One she's away from him, she should gain perspective it's not really possible to have while she's in this traumatic situation he's placed her in, and holds her in. The show just hand waves all of that.

I do not remember all the threads I have read but there were hints that Sansa could be in scenes with LF and that she could get even closer to him in season six. Someone has even suggested that she could marry LF next after a direwolf has killed Ramsay. The Ramsay actor has be seen with makeup like a serious dog attack. Sorry for not remembering the posts about that but it was recently.

if Sansa indeed sides with LF then his manipulation of her will not end so soon, she might side with him for some time yet - against Jon? No love story between Sansa and Jon but the contrary.

And we readers know a lot about LF that Sansa does not know

Boudica said:

This is the problem with using Sansa as a narrator of events. She

sees/hears a lot of things so that the audience can know stuff. But she herself never reacts to or wonders about all this information. Makes her look quite dumb. In fact later on, in the Vale, she wonders what happened to Jeyne Poole. Hey, all you have to do is ask LF!

[Newstar]

I think the viewers and readers will call bullshit if Sansa is married a third time in such a short timeframe. In the show, at least, I think her next marriage will be her last.

As for Sansa aligning against Jon...it's possible, I guess, but I doubt they'd be at odds over Ramsay or Winterfell. The only way Sansa would turn against Jon would depend on LF poisoning her mind against him, and I think LF would have his work cut out for him on that front:

LF: Jon wants to claim Winterfell!

Jon; I seriously don't. It's all yours.

LF: He's secretly in league with Ramsay!

Jon: Dude, I got assassinated because I wanted to raise an army against Ramsay.

LF: He's a bastard! Bastards are untrustworthy!

Sansa:...Are you kidding me with this shit?

[Lord Friendzone]

I think the viewers and readers will call bullshit if Sansa is married a third time in such a short timeframe. In the show, at least, I think her next marriage will be her last.

As for Sansa aligning against Jon...it's possible, I guess, but I doubt they'd be at odds over Ramsay or Winterfell. The only way Sansa would turn against Jon would depend on LF poisoning her mind against him, and I think LF would have his work cut out for him on that front:

LF: Jon wants to claim Winterfell!

Jon; I seriously don't. It's all yours.

LF: He's secretly in league with Ramsay!

Jon: Dude, I got assassinated because I wanted to raise an army against Ramsay.

LF: He's a bastard! Bastards are untrustworthy!

Sansa:...Are you kidding me with this shit?

I just can't imagine Sansa and Jon going against one another. Sansa will be thrilled to see some family member and Jon wouldn't start a fight over Winterfell or any of that. He has his own mission. Well, question is if she believes in his stories about WW. LF got some explaining to do with Boltons and they he left her there. They surely can't just skip this and LF: oh well Sansa, hi there. Sansa: Baelish, my hero. I think this might be a beginning where Sansa might finally learn or should I say they let her learn...she will takéematters in her own hands.

[Arya-Jon]

I just can't imagine Sansa and Jon going against one another. Sansa will be thrilled to see some family member 

They never can go against each other. Least of all in the begining when they meet.

The question is : Will Rickon die? If he dies, how he dies? If he truly dies in mysterious circumstances as people are claiming who is responsible for the death?

If he dies, who would you suspect? Who would gain  the most from the death?

Littlefinger is a dangerous friend Sansa has that way.

Of course Rickon dying will never turn them against each other. They would still be a team and will trust each other. But it would be a 80% trust or a 60% trust. Later, when Jon does something that does not fit into Littlefinger's plans (and that has to be something related to Dany) , we dont know what will happen.  Maybe he may want to give the North's independence to Dany in return for her aid with dragons? (Dany may expect the north to integrate in return for her help right? It would be common courtesy. ) Maybe he may use Robb's will or simple force for that.

Do you think Sansa would like that?  Wont littlefinger manipulate the situation and try to use her hurt to allly with  someone else and increase his own power. What would he gain by being in the same side as Team Dany/Jon. He would be back to square 1. As long as Sansa is in power it makes sense for him. But after that?

But after what Sansa has learned about Bastards in the Vale, it makes sense that they would give up their differences and will be ultimately in the same side.

[Arya-Jon]

 

Just edited my post.

[Lord Friendzone]

They never can go against each other. Least of all in the begining when they meet.

The question is : Will Rickon die? If he dies, how he dies? If he truly dies in mysterious circumstances as people are claiming who is responsible for the death?

If he dies, who would you suspect? Who would gain  the most from the death?

Littlefinger is a dangerous friend Sansa has that way.

Of course Rickon dying will never turn them against each other. They would still be a team and will trust each other. But it would be a 80% trust or a 60% trust. Later, when Jon does something that does not fit into Littlefinger's plans (and that has to be something related to Dany) , we dont know what will happen.  Maybe he may want to give the North's independence to Dany in return for her aid with dragons? (Dany may expect the north to integrate in return for her help right? It would be common courtesy. ) Maybe he may use Robb's will or simple force for that.

Do you think Sansa would like that?  Wont littlefinger manipulate the situation and try to use her hurt to allly with  someone else and increase his own power. What would he gain by being in the same side as Team Dany/Jon. He would be back to square 1. As long as Sansa is in power it makes sense for him. But after that?

But after what Sansa has learned about Bastards in the Vale, it makes sense that they would give up their differences and will be ultimately in the same side.

Rickon's potential death does raise the question. I mean LF will be essentially putting up Sansa as Queen in the North and Jon might be the hero after the battle against the Boltons leading by an example. It could create interesting scenario without Rickon. He is ideal candidate to lead the North as King. I think Robb's will might be omitted for purpose. They will simplify things by having two not so ideal candidates to lead North. Sansa with LF and Vale, married to Boltons and Lannisters. Jon bastard from the NW, viewed by some as a deserter etc. They can go easy route by having Rickon as King and Jon leading forces since he's really young and Sansa to be his regent. It probably won't be that easy.

The question if LF will be around for that long or what will happen until then. Jon, Daeny and other things concerning WW might be season 7 later in that and season 8...and not before. Jon will interact with LF and Sansa this season  and we don't even know if Daeny will make her move to Westeros. Daeny got plenty of business down in the South.

Jon's presence will already screwing up his plans and Rickon for that matter too. Jon might not be that easy to fool. Obviously he will try to use the situation as best he could, but Sansa might done something that will jeopardize his plan to rule Westeros. Which is I believe his ultimate goal.

[Arya-Jon]

 

The question if LF will be around for that long or what will happen until then. 

From the Sandor- Littlefinger Rivalry that seems to have been set up, I think it will take some time for Sandor to reach Littlefinger. It cant be very soon.

Other reason I suspect it will last long is due to Sansa-Littlefinger kiss being shown in the teaser. Maybe it was just a random choice. But...

Also the show runners have really hyped up littlefinger. I could see that right from the first season promos. Of course he may die, but to me it seems he would go some distance.

 

[Arya-Jon]

 

 

Jon's presence will already screwing up his plans and Rickon for that matter too. Jon might not be that easy to fool. Obviously he will try to use the situation as best he could, but Sansa might done something that will jeopardize his plan to rule Westeros. Which is I believe his ultimate goal.

I doubt Jon would be present for a long time because of his various quests. But yeah, I dont think Littlefinger would want a brother nearby. The reason he chose to win Winterfell is probably because he could then openly seperate himself from the iron throne and have a kingdom for his own through Sansa. Vale+Riverlands+North is a formidable combination. More so as he is hoarding grains.Jon would be an unexpected unwanted side effect of that plan. I think the breaking of wall may have saved Jon from being poisoned in his dinner table. As Littlefinger would need Jon to fight the whitewalkers menace

I think he wants Sansa to feel lonely even when she is in Winterfell. As that suits him and his plans to have her in his pocket. So I think , he will play with the Sansa, Jon Arya dynamic a lot.

If ever Sansa begins bonding strongly with her siblings he will lose his ability to influence her. Littlefinger depends  a lot on Sansa's helplessness to influence her and make her do as he wants. 

[A Ghost of Someone]

Littlefinger will not allow Sansa to bond with any of her family or friends. Littlefinger wants to isolate her and we know he should be considered a major threat to Rickon, Jon and Bran, should he return. Also, in the previews, if he can ride a horse, he can return and he has the greatest claim of them all to Winterfell, the North and if Edmure dies (Roslyn is not known to be prego in show), Bran is heir to Riverlands. Littlefinger will want them all dead but Sansa, if he can wed her.
However, since LF was wrong about Stannis's campaign in every way, was he thinking Sansa would not be married and still a virgin when he returns to Winterfell and waiting for him?  If so, he is in for an ugly surprise, is he not?

[Winds of Winter blow cold]

Yeah. I'm thinking Sansa won't have much faith in Littlefinger's judgment right now!

Anyway, both Jon & Sansa now know Bran & Rickon are alive (unlike the books) & if Breinne catches up to Sansa, they will know about Arya too.

If they get together, they will keep it to themselves until they can find them, that could lead to spending a lot of time together...& confused feelings!

[Aint Nuthin But A HoundDog]

Sandor Clegane is among the few people who were witness to that act of Littlefinger. And we do know that some Septon would be bringing back a character we never expected to see.

As it is a Septon and not a red priest, the only character that seems likely is "The hound".

I had totally forgotten about Sandor being a witness to that scene! 

[A Ghost of Someone]

I had totally forgotten about Sandor being a witness to that scene! 

I cannot help but think this is a plothole in the books and show, that Sansa still does not know how LF betrayed her father to the Lannisters and physically sneeked up behind him and put a dagger to his throat. They know about what Roose did on the show. All of Westeros seems to know about that but not LF's deed that reaped him Harrenhal (after Tyrion sent Ser Janos to the Wall to get it back from him as in reality as it was a too big of a prize to be wasted on Slynt).

Also, another thing not really related. All of Westeros knows about Robb and Cat getting murdered at the Red Wedding but no one seems to mention that they murdered Robb's pregnant Queen to start the whole thing off, with multiple stabs through her belly into the baby. It is like Talisa never existed. On the show this was added but was probably the worst murder of them all comitted in that episode. So, do not get troubled about Fat Walda Frey Bolton's kid after what her family did to Robb's heir "on the way".

[Grail King]

I cannot help but think this is a plothole in the books and show, that Sansa still does not know how LF betrayed her father to the Lannisters and physically sneeked up behind him and put a dagger to his throat. They know about what Roose did on the show. All of Westeros seems to know about that but not LF's deed that reaped him Harrenhal (after Tyrion sent Ser Janos to the Wall to get it back from him as in reality as it was a too big of a prize to be wasted on Slynt).

Also, another thing not really related. All of Westeros knows about Robb and Cat getting murdered at the Red Wedding but no one seems to mention that they murdered Robb's pregnant Queen to start the whole thing off, with multiple stabs through her belly into the baby. It is like Talisa never existed. On the show this was added but was probably the worst murder of them all comitted in that episode. So, do not get troubled about Fat Walda Frey Bolton's kid after what her family did to Robb's heir "on the way".

Well how will Sansa learn about it?, Sandor may run into Brienne a second time since he is closer to River Run then Winterfell, and it would be sort of justice if the Freys loose their grip to Winterfell and the North if Walda dies, especially if Ramsey does it.

This is where back when when I said I think Sansa is sensitive to people in ways she doesn't know yet would be true and come to fruition.

Going back to finish last episode of Outlander, and reading the book, my temporary fix until April ( but now I'm addicted to another flawed character Claire Randall Fraser  ) and now March.  :> )

[A Ghost of Someone]

Well how will Sansa learn about it?, Sandor may run into Brienne a second time since he is closer to River Run then Winterfell, and it would be sort of justice if the Freys loose their grip to Winterfell and the North if Walda dies, especially if Ramsey does it.

This is where back when when I said I think Sansa is sensitive to people in ways she doesn't know yet would be true and come to fruition.

Going back to finish last episode of Outlander, and reading the book, my temporary fix until April ( but now I'm addicted to another flawed character Claire Randall Fraser  ) and now March.  :> )

I have bought the first book of Outlander and have watched the first 4 episodes. After the 5th episode, i will read up to close where the show is then watch and read one episode/pages per time. So far, I like it far more than I thought I would.

[Grail King]

I have bought the first book of Outlander and have watched the first 4 episodes. After the 5th episode, i will read up to close where the show is then watch and read one episode/pages per time. So far, I like it far more than I thought I would.

Unlike ASOIAF where I read the books first, here I watched the show,well 2 or 3 episodes then bought the first book, tonight I finished the show but book wise I'm where episode 7 is , which is page 187 out of 627 pages so now the book will fill me in on what the show skips.

I want to get to where Claire gives her reason for forsaking her husband Frank and the 20th century for Jamie.

[A Ghost of Someone]

Unlike ASOIAF where I read the books first, here I watched the show,well 2 or 3 episodes then bought the first book, tonight I finished the show but book wise I'm where episode 7 is , which is page 187 out of 627 pages so now the book will fill me in on what the show skips.

I want to get to where Claire gives her reason for forsaking her husband Frank and the 20th century for Jamie.

Me too. I mean, I am half way through episode 5 and will read up to that once finished. So far I feel sorry for her and Frank. From what I see, she is in a constantly dangerous place as witchcraft could be placed on her for her "healing abilities" let alone if she tells anyone about who she really is and where she comes from.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

Can we move the Outlander chat to a separate thread guys. There are other places to discuss inferior shows.

[Cas Stark]

I cannot help but think this is a plothole in the books and show, that Sansa still does not know how LF betrayed her father to the Lannisters and physically sneeked up behind him and put a dagger to his throat. They know about what Roose did on the show. All of Westeros seems to know about that but not LF's deed that reaped him Harrenhal (after Tyrion sent Ser Janos to the Wall to get it back from him as in reality as it was a too big of a prize to be wasted on Slynt).

Also, another thing not really related. All of Westeros knows about Robb and Cat getting murdered at the Red Wedding but no one seems to mention that they murdered Robb's pregnant Queen to start the whole thing off, with multiple stabs through her belly into the baby. It is like Talisa never existed. On the show this was added but was probably the worst murder of them all comitted in that episode. So, do not get troubled about Fat Walda Frey Bolton's kid after what her family did to Robb's heir "on the way".

 Good point.  All of KL would know LF was involved since he did it with a room full of gold cloaks and nobles.  It's hard to think that someone in the Vale wouldn't have heard of this and that it wouldn't have gotten back to Lysa and to Sansa.  It is a plot hole, more in the books I guess than the show though.

And no, Jon and Sansa are not ending up together.  WTF is wrong with people? 

[Grail King]

Can we move the Outlander chat to a separate thread guys. There are other places to discuss inferior shows.

Not a problem, but I do disagree, it's not inferior, and all honesty the directors and writers seem to do certain things better, of course just as GOT, it followed the first book almost perfectly, we'll see how it goes later.

It's not like this thread is burning with activity daily.

[Lord Friendzone]

 Good point.  All of KL would know LF was involved since he did it with a room full of gold cloaks and nobles.  It's hard to think that someone in the Vale wouldn't have heard of this and that it wouldn't have gotten back to Lysa and to Sansa.  It is a plot hole, more in the books I guess than the show though.

And no, Jon and Sansa are not ending up together.  WTF is wrong with people? 

I would never support Starkcest in any way, shape or form. I would say highly unlikely, but not impossible. If people want therm together...it's their right to express their opinion I guess. People putting Jon with other characters...it would be funny if they leave any romance out of this.