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U.S. Politics - the pre-pre-pre-pre Primary season edition


TerraPrime

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Inigma: no that's not my argument. The Democratic Party, at least as things stand currently, are against any and all entitlement reform of any description. It's become a no brainer for them politically. Any time a Repub stands up and points to the unusustainable growth in entitlement spending the Dem side will howl them down with claims that they're 'coming to take your SS/Medicare/Welfare' (delete as appropriate). It's become a way to harvest votes and it's been a very very successful tactic. So yeah I absolutely think if the Clinton reforms hadn't happened then there is no way a Dem politician, let alone a Dem POTUS, would be proposing or supporting them now.


You're literally proving them right... By admitting that Dems wouldn't have supported entitlement reform prior to the Clintons, you've demonstrated that it's the Clintons who were to the right of the Democratic party on this issue.
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Inigma: no that's not my argument. The Democratic Party, at least as things stand currently, are against any and all entitlement reform of any description. It's become a no brainer for them politically. Any time a Repub stands up and points to the unusustainable growth in entitlement spending the Dem side will howl them down with claims that they're 'coming to take your SS/Medicare/Welfare' (delete as appropriate). It's become a way to harvest votes and it's been a very very successful tactic. So yeah I absolutely think if the Clinton reforms hadn't happened then there is no way a Dem politician, let alone a Dem POTUS, would be proposing or supporting them now.

 

 

I don't think you understood Ini's point. At. All.

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Trump just kicked Univision reporter Jorge Ramos out of his press conference, telling him to "Go back to Univision" http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/25/politics/donald-trump-megyn-kelly-iowa-rally/index.html

 

"Go back to Univision," Trump told Ramos, who was continually asking Trump questions despite not being called on. Security then escorted him out of the room. Trump later said that he had nothing to do with the removal -- pinning the blame on the security personnel.

"He was out of order. I would take his question in two seconds," Trump said, adding that he wouldn't mind if Ramos returned to ask a question politely.

 

Ramos was able to return and question Trump about his immigration policies.

 

He may as well have told him to go back to Mexico.

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This Bill Maher-style, ivory tower, pompous liberal douchery is why those voters rightly hate you. "I can't even," "wow just wow", etc. No attempt to understand, no self-reflection. On Real Time the other day he was talking about how immigration wasn't a "real issue." Well of course it isn't an issue for Holywood millionaires who can afford to insulate themselves from the results, Bill  :dunce:  But it effects the little people. 

 

Or the little people think it affects them, and are encouraged to do so by those who wish to reap an electoral harvest from xenophobia. If you ask the average person just how many American jobs are taken by immigrants, you'll get a shrug. If you ask them just how much money is spent on insuring the health of immigrants, well, they don't know that either. In short, most people who are bitter about immigration don't have the first idea just how immigration is hurting them. Given that, I can see why Maher thinks it's not a real issue.

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Trump just kicked Univision reporter Jorge Ramos out of his press conference, telling him to "Go back to Univision" http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/25/politics/donald-trump-megyn-kelly-iowa-rally/index.html
 
He may as well have told him to go back to Mexico.


Telling a rude reporter to go back to their actual employer is the same as telling them to leave the country?

Quit chasing phantoms
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Hayyoth, your comment about the Republican positions not having changed in twenty years is damning as hell. Hence why a majority of the country has moved on from positions Republicans are clinging to.

Hell, if we use evolution as a metaphor then conservative positions will be extinct soon.
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Fox as the right's echo chamber won't end up standing up to Trump in any substantial way over the Meghan Kelly insults. I just wonder if Trump is a closet liberal looking to troll the Republican party. It wouldn't be the first time a philosophical Democrat went to the Republican party because they were more electable with that brand (Bloomberg for NYC mayor). I suppose in this case it would be a very long con on the part of Trump, since he's been associated with the Republican party for a long time.

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Telling a rude reporter to go back to their actual employer is the same as telling them to leave the country?

Quit chasing phantoms

 

 Mr T 2 @GovtsTheProblem 5m5 minutes ago

I think Jorge Ramos just volunteered to be the first one deported.

 

John Galt @JohnGGalt 3m3 minutes ago

RETWEET if you think we should deport Jorge Ramos (@jorgeramosnews).

 

Mr_Pinko @Mr_Pinko 6m6 minutes ago

Univision’s Jorge Ramos RUDELY JUMPS THE LINE with Trump – IMPLODES and gets DEPORTED from Presser! http://po.st/SnU9ob

 

I love my U.S.A @WEdwarda 32m32 minutes ago

Trump deports Ramos from presser.

 

Cora @CoraStevenss 51m51 minutes ago

Trump deports Jorge Ramos from press conference. That's hot.

 

This Sean Hannity-style, ivory tower, pompous conservative douchery is why those voters rightly hate you.

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This Sean Hannity-style, ivory tower, pompous conservative douchery is why those voters rightly hate you.


Using the cesspit of Twitter as evidence ain't very impressive

And we were talking about what Trump said, not what his followers said
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Using the cesspit of Twitter as evidence ain't very impressive

And we were talking about what Trump said, not what his followers said

 But...but...I thought I was chasing phantoms! Okay, well  speaking of what Trump said, here's him impersonating Asians. "WE WANT DEAL!" http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/gop-primaries/251969-trump-impersonates-asian-negotiators

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Using the cesspit of Twitter as evidence ain't very impressive
And we were talking about what Trump said, not what his followers said


It is evidence of how those whose support Mr Trump is vying for viewed what he said. And I am sure it is reasonable to conclude that, since Mr Trump is a media savy individual, that he knew exactly how it would be seen by his a good portion of his target audience. So he basically got away with telling a Hispanic to go back to Mexico and can defend what he said as it is not the literal meaning of his words, only the strongly implied ones?
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So Lindsey Graham says that Trump appeals to the portion of the GOP that believes Obama is a Muslim. 

 

There is something quite satisfying about this.  Never forget how many members of the GOP across all spectrums including the so-called establishment cynically let that whole thing fester at every opportunity with BS ranging from "I take him at his word" to "I have no idea."  You know what, GOP?  You did build that after all.

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 But...but...I thought I was chasing phantoms! Okay, well  speaking of what Trump said, here's him impersonating Asians. "WE WANT DEAL!" http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/gop-primaries/251969-trump-impersonates-asian-negotiators

 

 

Meh. This stuff only upsets people who aren't supporting Trump. And, if someone isn't ALREADY upset at Trump's blatant and toxic racism against Mexicans, then this mild racist thing against Asians isn't going to even register.

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So Glen Beck attacks Trump, calling him 'progressive' for demonizing companies moving to Mexico. He puts this on his site...

http://www.glennbeck.com/2015/08/25/glenn-to-trump-stop-demonizing-the-companies-and-start-fixing-the-problems/

Donald Trump swore off Oreos over Nabisco’s closure of a plant in Chicago, which will be moving to Mexico due to burdensome corporate taxes. Glenn took Trump to task over this comment, questioning how Trump is being touted as a Republican conservative. He’s acting more like a Republican progressive, Glenn argued, adding progressivism is a cancer that kills the Constitution. “[Trump] says, ‘I’m going to make us competitive.’ How, when you’re booing Nabisco for moving when we have the highest corporate tax rate? How, when you’re implying that you should boycott Oreos because they’re now in Mexico?” Glenn said. Here’s what Glenn said actually happens. “If you stay in the United States, you become the Twinkies and you go out of business. And then, instead of having a company, like Ford still at least owns the company, instead, you go out of business and a Mexican company buys Twinkies. And then they make them there. They sell them here. And all of the money goes back to Mexico. Which do you prefer Mr. Constitutional conservative Donald Trump? Help me out,” Glenn said.


And the comments were pretty uniformly AGAINST Beck on this. On Becks own site. Condemned as a RINO.

This Trump run could be something epic.
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So Glen Beck attacks Trump, calling him 'progressive' for demonizing companies moving to Mexico. He puts this on his site...

http://www.glennbeck.com/2015/08/25/glenn-to-trump-stop-demonizing-the-companies-and-start-fixing-the-problems/

And the comments were pretty uniformly AGAINST Beck on this. On Becks own site. Condemned as a RINO.

This Trump run could be something epic.

Cuckservatives like Lindsay Graham talking smack helps Trump. Fox planting gotcha questions in the debate helped Trump. A responsible adult needs to take charge of the RNC and cut this bullshit. Most importantly they need to stop pushing a chamber of commerce, corrupt POS like Jeb fuckin Bush. Instead we're witnessing crap like this

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/08/25/two-state-gop-leaders-reportedly-plot-strategy-to-slow-down-trump/?intcmp=hpbt1

 

Republican leaders in two states reportedly are plotting to make presidential candidate Donald Trump’s quest for the GOP nomination a lot harder.

Party leaders in Virginia and North Carolina told Politico.com that they are considering a push to require candidates entering their respective Republican primaries to pledge their support for the eventual nominee and not run a third-party candidacy — a pledge Trump, the current frontrunner, would not make when asked to during the Fox News debate earlier this month in Cleveland.

“Anybody who wants to seek the Republican nomination should have to commit to supporting the ultimate Republican nominee,” Virginia’s former Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli told Politico. “I don’t see anything wrong with that.”

Cuccinelli later clarified his remarks to the outlet, writing in an email:

"Donald Trump is an important candidate in the race for the White House and I don’t think he or anyone else should be blocked from running as a Republican."

"But once the primary is over, that’s it. I support the Virginia sore-loser law that prevents candidates that lose a primary from running third-party," Cuccinelli said.

 

How do they think banning him from primaries is going to come across to Repub voters? Do any of these guys even have a brain?

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I don't think you understood Ini's point. At. All.

I understood it fine thanks. The Dems gave an inch but will not give a mile. I disagree, refusing to consider any entitlement reform of any sort, whereas in the nineties they actually supported far more radical changes than anything porposed by Repubs now, certainly marks a marked change in their politics. I'm applying the exact same standards that are being applied to my side of politics. If Republicans refusing to countenance a huge increase in utility costs to 'fight climate change' is a move to the right then Dems refusing to consider any entitlement reforms to prevent the country going bust is a move to the left.

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I understood it fine thanks. The Dems gave an inch but will not give a mile. I disagree, refusing to consider any entitlement reform of any sort, whereas in the nineties they actually supported far more radical changes than anything porposed by Repubs now, certainly marks a marked change in their politics. I'm applying the exact same standards that are being applied to my side of politics. If Republicans refusing to countenance a huge increase in utility costs to 'fight climate change' is a move to the right then Dems refusing to consider any entitlement reforms to prevent the country going bust is a move to the left.

 

In the 70's the GOP was very pro environment and conserving our national resources.  I think even you have to agree that this stance has changed and has moved to the right.

 

In the 70's the Dems were very anti any kind of entitlement reform, and were actually looking to expand on that.  In the 90's they actually sponsored entitlement reform and haven't moved at all since then for more.  Again, that's a move rightward.  Refusing to go further right is not moving left.

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In the 70's the GOP was very pro environment and conserving our national resources.  I think even you have to agree that this stance has changed and has moved to the right.

 

In the 70's the Dems were very anti any kind of entitlement reform, and were actually looking to expand on that.  In the 90's they actually sponsored entitlement reform and haven't moved at all since then for more.  Again, that's a move rightward.  Refusing to go further right is not moving left.

It depends on what you describe as right. Some Neonazis are very environmental. (As were a lot of the actual nazis)

I think somebody described it above best, the republicans are moving towards crazy and the fringe. And they do not even have more crazy people than the rest, their crazy people just have a constant voice.

If you take global warming the bullshit you can hear on either side (no matter if the people believe global warming exists or not) is mindshattering. But you do not have democratic senators taking the stand on the fringe nonsense. But republicans do. I mean obama not building the pipline was one of those issues where the crazy left won, (Now you are transporting the stuff by train and truck, and some of them go up in flames... Worse on any count) but compare that to several government shutdowns...

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