Who caused the most trouble for everyone else?

[Floki of the Ironborn]

And I don't mean people who consciously dealt out violence and destruction through the five books thus far, like Joffrey or Ramsay because that's too easy.


I refer to people whose actions, for better or worse, led to a lot of bad stuff happen to the rest of Westeros. Things they didn't intend or plan, but more like a butterfly effect, happened because of a decision or action they did.

So which person does that describe best for you?

[Ser Naufragus]

Catelyn is the cause of most misery in Westoros

[Bobby b's bobby]

Maybe stannis killing renly.

Cersei and Jaime bastards passed off as trueborn

[Sage of Westeros]

Balon whose actions led to Robb's death, a Lannister victory, dissolution of the Kingdom of the North, the torture of Theon, Roose's ascension, the death of Tully supremacy in the Riverlands, and much much more.

[Codename: Nymeria]

Lysa Arryn?

[James Steller]

Renly. He could have aided Ned and saved him, or at least he could have contacted his brother and rallied the Stormlands for him. Instead, he throws his own hat into the ring, forcing Stannis to kill him to avoid being killed himself in battle. This leads the Tyrells to rush their way to Tywin's banner, while the Stormlands are divided between supporting Stannis, Joffrey, or staying home.

This leads to Stannis having to spend time in the Stormlands just to get sufficient forces, assaulting King's Landing after enough time has passed for them to mount a sufficient defence, with Renly's image used by the Lannister reinforcements to defeat Stannis' men.

This means the royal family in King's Landing lives thanks to Ned and Stannis' defeats, and the war of the five kings goes on and on, with so many thousands dead.

[Sullen]

Balon whose actions led to Robb's death, a Lannister victory, dissolution of the Kingdom of the North, the torture of Theon, Roose's ascension, the death of Tully supremacy in the Riverlands, and much much more.

 

Robb crowning himself lead to Balon attacking him, he's the one to blame for all of that.

 

Or rather, Ned for refusing either Renly or Littlefinger's plans, which would have both kept balance in the Seven Kingdoms. He massively dropped the ball on this one.

 

 

Renly. He could have aided Ned and saved him, or at least he could have contacted his brother and rallied the Stormlands for him. Instead, he throws his own hat into the ring, forcing Stannis to kill him to avoid being killed himself in battle. This leads the Tyrells to rush their way to Tywin's banner, while the Stormlands are divided between supporting Stannis, Joffrey, or staying home.

This leads to Stannis having to spend time in the Stormlands just to get sufficient forces, assaulting King's Landing after enough time has passed for them to mount a sufficient defence, with Renly's image used by the Lannister reinforcements to defeat Stannis' men.

This means the royal family in King's Landing lives thanks to Ned and Stannis' defeats, and the war of the five kings goes on and on, with so many thousands dead.

 

 

Mate, please.

 

Stannis knew of the incest, he's the one who should have contacted Renly, not the other way around.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Brandon Stark.

[Bobby b's bobby]

 
Robb crowning himself lead to Balon attacking him, he's the one to blame for all of that.
 
Or rather, Ned for refusing either Renly or Littlefinger's plans, which would have both kept balance in the Seven Kingdoms. He massively dropped the ball on this one.
 
 
 
Mate, please.
 
Stannis knew of the incest, he's the one who should have contacted Renly, not the other way around.

Come on we all know that if you aren't acting in stannis' best interests with knowledge you can't possibly have you deserve a painful death.

[James Steller]

Brandon Stark.

The one who stupidly rode all the way to King's Landing and challenged the Crown Prince to be murdered by his own hand, or the kid who disobeyed his parents and climbed a tower to set everything in motion to result in his family's downfall and so many other dead? I could believe either.

[nyser1]

Petyr Baelish and Cersei.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

The one who stupidly rode all the way to King's Landing and challenged the Crown Prince to be murdered by his own hand, or the kid who disobeyed his parents and climbed a tower to set everything in motion to result in his family's downfall and so many other dead? I could believe either.

 

Considering is because of the Robellion that Robert got crowned, I'd say Brandon Stark the Older, the Deflowerer.

[Lady Flandrensis]

LF for sure.

[Lady Flandrensis]

Double post.

[Voramir Glover]

Cersei. If she made a son with Robert instead of fucking her brother, everything would be fine.

[BrandonStark's bastard]

I am going House Targaryen.

 

Then Littlerfinger and Varys and his "little birds"

[nyser1]

Cersei. If she made a son with Robert instead of fucking her brother, everything would be fine.

 

 

Too much to ask of her I believe.

[Witch]

Littlefinger, Varys and the Lannister twins.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Balon whose actions led to Robb's death, a Lannister victory, dissolution of the Kingdom of the North, the torture of Theon, Roose's ascension, the death of Tully supremacy in the Riverlands, and much much more.

 

 

It was the Tyrells who gave Lannsiters victory, not Balon.

 

Robb had more to do with the dissolution of the kingdom of the North, he poorly thought it out. Perhaps if he knew that he was going to claim independence he would have left with kingdom better defended. 

 

Balon had nothing to do with the torture of Theon. His own sister told him to vacate Winterfell, he ignored her.

 

Roose ascending had little to do with Balon, Robb had weakened his own position, he didnt have to execute Rickard but once he did Roose gained the support of many of the Karstark men still alive.

 

The Tullys made the wrong call, Cat Tully kidnapped Tyrion in the Riverlands using Riverlands men, Edmure sent a Riverland army to the Golden Tooth and the Tullys crowned Robb rather than Renly or Stannis (men who actually had a chance against the Lannisters). The Tullys controlled their own fate.

[falcotron]

You can't really blame one person for almost anything. For example, all of Littlefinger's actions together still wouldn't have come close to creating the Wot5K without Cersei being unfaithful, Jon discovering proof of her infidelity, Jaime throwing Bran out the window but not killing him, Ned rediscovering Jon's proof, Cat taking Tyrion captive, Lysa insisting on trying Tyrion, Bronn winning Tyrion's case, Cersei murdering Robert, Ned refusing Renly's offer, Ned and Sansa letting Cersei in on their plans, Stannis not declaring immediately, Joffrey being a dimwitted sadist, and so on.

And I think that's intentional on GRRM's part. Popular history usually tells us that everything can be traced to one "wicked king" like Richard III or one "evil grand vizier" character like Jöran Persson--but in reality, it's almost always a confluence of a dozen people doing independent evil, incompetent, or just unlucky things. Fantasy usually follows the former, but GRRM wanted to follow reality because it's actually more fun.