francisco of house avila Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 I find it believable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 I've always been quite skeptical of this theory, despite your above list which makes a good foundation for it. I guess the 3 weeks trip is what I have a question about, and by no means do I intend any rudeness, but where did you come up with this? Is there an actual way to calculate the time and distance to make this work, and can ships of the size of Euron's make a steady 12 knots (I'm not very seafaring lol)? For a comparison, it took Columbus 36 days to cross the Atlantic from the Canaries to the Bahamas, which would give him an average speed over the ground in the vicinity of three knots. Sustained twelve knots over such long a distance, for a longship, sounds phenomenally good. That must be close to "Silence's" theoretical hull speed, it would mean the weather cooperated fully, always, literally 24/7, and Euron somehow managed to milk it for everything it was worth. And maybe then some. Actually, "magic teleportation, man" sounds less contrived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Yes because lots of people teleport in asoiaf. Only the Shrouded Lord of the Sorrows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerrorVoid Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Preston did some nice additions. I was reluctant to believe E=D, but with them it seems to be at least plausible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 I've always been quite skeptical of this theory, despite your above list which makes a good foundation for it. I guess the 3 weeks trip is what I have a question about, and by no means do I intend any rudeness, but where did you come up with this? Is there an actual way to calculate the time and distance to make this work, and can ships of the size of Euron's make a steady 12 knots (I'm not very seafaring lol)? Raving Stark the Mad sort of beat me to answering this. But I'll give a few more details about "how". A number of maps have been published that can be used to estimate distance. This is usually done by using the length of the Wall as a legend (it is said to be 300 miles long), and estimating other distances on that basis. This assumes the maps are on a consistent scale, which might not be the case (medieval maps rarely were very consistent with scale). Still, it supplies a fair basis. I forget what I came up with when I tried, but it was not too different from Raving Stark the Mad's 5,700 miles. 12 knots is not impossible for a sailing ship at all. The 24 hour distance record for a sailing vessel is I think about 450 miles, which is roughly the equivalent to maintaining an 18 knot average over a 24 hour period. Of course, far faster speeds have been done for shorter periods. The problem is doing this consistently, since, of course, one cannot normally get the winds to do what you tell them and give you ideal circumstances for sailing in exactly the direction you want to go. Raving Stark the Mad in some ways understates the strength of his own objection when he says that 12 knots is "fast but not exceptional". That would be a fair statement as applied over short distances, but not over a distance of 5000+ miles. That's why I was forced to concede that this explanation depends on "magic". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dragons Hand Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Perhaps you should post Alt-X-Shift's video so we're all on the same page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light a wight tonight Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Ah yes. The old "teleportation" argument. Seriously, the theory does not require teleportation. It does require a faster mode of transportation than sailing ship from Essos around Westeros to the Iron Islands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megz Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 If that's the case, wouldn't they both be played by the same actor in the series? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light a wight tonight Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 If Euron was Daario he could have had Dany hatch his dragon egg, right? Why didn't he? Euron has blue lips; Daario has a blue beard. Not the same thing. Now if you want something that makes sense, Howland Reed is both Darrio and Euron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Euron has blue lips; Daario has a blue beard. Not the same thing. Surely. But I don't recall anyone saying it was the same thing. However, since you do mention it, a blue beard might certainly make blue lips seem less noticeable. Also, if someone like Daario were to wear some kind of lip-coloring - perhaps to conceal blue lips --, no-one would bat an eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 It does require a faster mode of transportation than sailing ship from Essos around Westeros to the Iron Islands. It would require him to sail faster than would normally be consistently possible, yes. But there are hints that he can do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViniciusMJ Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Possible, but highly improbable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 If Euron was Daario he could have had Dany hatch his dragon egg, right? Why didn't he? I have no idea what he would have done. But all indications are he did not even meet her or hear of her until after he had thrown the egg into the sea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GtrGbln Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Really again with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Pesci Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Thanks for the explanations Raving Stark the Mad and ChillyPolly! I doubt I'll change my mind on this, but it at least shows it is a possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Sustained twelve knots over such long a distance, for a longship, sounds phenomenally good. That must be close to "Silence's" theoretical hull speed, it would mean the weather cooperated fully, always, literally 24/7, and Euron somehow managed to milk it for everything it was worth. And maybe then some. Actually, "magic teleportation, man" sounds less contrived. There are suggestions that Viking Longships could exceed their theoretical displacement hull speed, due to their ability to "plane" the waters in strong winds. It has been argued that an 80' longship could achieve 15 or 16 knots. I'm not sure its true, but GRRM may believe it; and it is certainly possible that the ironborn and/or Euron, may have improved on the technology of the Vikings. But arguments based on the physics of the Real World face the problem that the world of Westeros may not be identical. If Westeros supports giant flying lizards, might it not have a somewhat thicker atmosphere and lower gravity? And if it does, might it not be far easier for a wind-driven boat to achieve "planing" and exceed its theoretical hull speed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 ChillyPolly, My statement that teleportation or some other form of instant transportation is required has nothing to do with the order of the chapters. Euron and Victarion are together on the shield islands before Vic departs for Mereen. When he leaves, Dany is already in Mereen with Dario. Dany meets up with Dario at Yunkai and is in/outside of Mereen until Vic arrives. He would have to have been in 2 places at once for this theory to be true. Beyond the issue of being in 2 places at once, you still have other issues. You say Dario is old because he tells Dany his years are as numerous as the stars in the sky, but his appearance is of a young man and I find it unlikely that a 14 year old is having a purely physical relationship with an old person. Also, another obvious problem, if Dario is something zipping around the world on the Silence, then where is the Silence? Why would the Yunkish be cooperating with him? Dany thinks to herself that if Dario were noble she would marry him, so what possible motive could a noble who wants to marry her have to not tell her he is a noble? Lets look at this logically, what is Euron doing if this theory is true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Euron and Victarion are together on the shield islands before Vic departs for Mereen. When he leaves, Dany is already in Mereen with Dario. Explain how you have managed to coordinate these events as occurring simultaneously, and not weeks or months apart. Obviously, given Vic's extensive delays after leaving the Shields, Euron arriving/returning to Meereen long before Vic, after meeting him on the Shields, is the least of our problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Also, another obvious problem, if Dario is something zipping around the world on the Silence, then where is the Silence? If Daario is NOT something zipping around the world, then where is the Silence? We don't know in either event. It has a crew of mutes that do not talk, and there are only a handful of occasions where we know its location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Beyond the issue of being in 2 places at once, you still have other issues. You say Dario is old because he tells Dany his years are as numerous as the stars in the sky, but his appearance is of a young man and I find it unlikely that a 14 year old is having a purely physical relationship with an old person. Daario is never described as young, AFAIK. Unless you think good looks imply youth. In which case, Euron is also described as young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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