Who among the baratheon brothers would make the best king

[Hugorfonics]

The smallfolk love Renly. Randyll would do as he is told, as he has always done. Renly would have been alone and isolated. What you think is really irrelevant. Cersei had already killed his brother, the king, and said she wanted to kill Stannis and Renly too. So his choices are be loyal to Stannis, which likely gets him killed because the Tyrells are now gone, or leave Westeros completely, which still doesn't preserve his safety?
 
That's assuming Stannis doesn't have any boys. He's only 35 in ACOK. 
 
I find it laughable you call self-preservation selfish. Compromising with Ned means he gets killed by the GC or tossed in the jail with Ned. Compromising with Robb means breaking up the 7K and losing leverage with anyone else. Compromising with Stannis means he loses Tyrell support. If Stannis had bent the knee, the Lannisters would have been destroyed in half a second. It's hilarious you think Renly doesn't compromise or isn't pragmatic when comparing him in part to Stannis.

The smallfolk love Renly. Randyll would do as he is told, as he has always done. Renly would have been alone and isolated. What you think is really irrelevant. Cersei had already killed his brother, the king, and said she wanted to kill Stannis and Renly too. So his choices are be loyal to Stannis, which likely gets him killed because the Tyrells are now gone, or leave Westeros completely, which still doesn't preserve his safety?
 
That's assuming Stannis doesn't have any boys. He's only 35 in ACOK. 
 
I find it laughable you call self-preservation selfish. Compromising with Ned means he gets killed by the GC or tossed in the jail with Ned. Compromising with Robb means breaking up the 7K and losing leverage with anyone else. Compromising with Stannis means he loses Tyrell support. If Stannis had bent the knee, the Lannisters would have been destroyed in half a second. It's hilarious you think Renly doesn't compromise or isn't pragmatic when comparing him in part to Stannis.

The smallfolk love the handsome prince who jokes during small council meetings and doesn't dispense justice in Storms End because he's not there, what a surprise!
Randyll is as cruel as it gets, the smallfolk will never be happy under him.
Why would Renly die if he sided with Stannis? Stannis is still alive. Also Loras is the apple in Maces eye, Renlys soul mate, Tyrell wouldn't fight him. Plus although Stannis is healthy enough for a kid, his wife, whose bed he shuns, is almost 40. It's safe to say Stannis will have no sons.

Renly asked Ned to do evil, and fight Stannis. A compromise could be anything, because Renlys plan would make Ned enemy of the realm.

What leverage? Renly wanted the whole pie against Robb, there's no room for leverage in an absolute rule.
Once again I disagree with Tyrell leaving, especially after Myrcellas engagement.
Stannis has compromised with Jon, he also works with smugglers and pirates. He trusts his lords to back up Imry as opposed to Melisandre.

[Minsc]

Renly wanted to be liked even more than Robert; seemed like a more capable administrator and probably would have been better than Robert, but would have been worse financially than Robert.

 

I don't recall anything about the Stormlands or Storm's End being broke thus I see no reason that he would be worse financially then Robert.

 

 

These are good men? Randyll is a war hawk, never gives an inch to his enemies or subjects. He'd make Renly constantly at war.
Loras is as headstrong as it gets, flipping out at Brienne (powered by jealously) and not heeding commander Jaime.
Garlan was nice to Tyrion and plays a persuasive look alike, I don't see other good characteristics.

Renly wanted to be king for glory. He refused all compromises and was sure his green teenage boyfriend was the best warrior. Renly was not made for diplomacy or strategies.

 

Yes, they are good men.  Randyll isn't going to ensure the realm is constantly at war under Renly. (if anything Stannis is much more likely to cause that)

 

Being headstrong doesn't make someone a bad person.

 

How did Renly refuse all compromises?  In fact, he offered a number of generous compromises to his opponents in exchange for their support.  Renly was completely adapt at diplomacy at seen in his alliance with the Tyrells.  He came up with perfectly solid strategy of how to take the Iron Throne (especially compared to his brother's).

 

 

A huge famine? Targ restoration? Dragons? O think that he would be great during peace time, but sometimes you need more than charisma.

 

He would do better then either of his brothers.

[Stannis broatheon]

 
I don't recall anything about the Stormlands or Storm's End being broke thus I see no reason that he would be worse financially then Robert.
 
 
 
Yes, they are good men.  Randyll isn't going to ensure the realm is constantly at war under Renly. (if anything Stannis is much more likely to cause that)
 
Being headstrong doesn't make someone a bad person.
 
How did Renly refuse all compromises?  In fact, he offered a number of generous compromises to his opponents in exchange for their support.  Renly was completely adapt at diplomacy at seen in his alliance with the Tyrells.  He came up with perfectly solid strategy of how to take the Iron Throne (especially compared to his brother's).
 
 
 
He would do better then either of his brothers.

How so? He does not seem to be as austere as Stannis, so during a famine he probably have more problems buying supplies or taking loans to buy supplies. He is not as charismatic as Robert, and would have a harder time fighting Targ loyalist and I dont see none of the Baratheon brothers beating dragons, maybe Stannis if he becomes the Night's king or AA.

[Minsc]

The smallfolk love the handsome prince who jokes during small council meetings and doesn't dispense justice in Storms End because he's not there, what a surprise!

 

Nor is Stannis at Dragonstone the majority of the time.

 

 

Randyll is as cruel as it gets, the smallfolk will never be happy under him.

 

Randyll isn't exceptionally cruel besides towards his son.  In fact, his justice isn't that different from Stannis'.  The smallfolk won't give a shit about him.

 

 

Why would Renly die if he sided with Stannis? Stannis is still alive.

 

Because then he is fighting against the combined might of the Lannisters and the Tyrells.  Mace isn't going to fight in support of crowning Stannis, especially when siding with the Lannisters gives him what he most wants.

 

 

Plus although Stannis is healthy enough for a kid, his wife, whose bed he shuns, is almost 40. It's safe to say Stannis will have no sons.

 

She is in her early thirties not almost forty.  Unless Stannis castrates himself then it isn't safe to bet on that.

 

 

Renly asked Ned to do evil,

 

No, Renly asked Ned to use common sense and perform the necessary actions to ensure Robert's will is followed.

 

 

What leverage? Renly wanted the whole pie against Robb, there's no room for leverage in an absolute rule.

 

Yes, that is why he wouldn't let him be independent you know the same stance all three kings made.  However, he was willing to compromise to allow Robb to keep his title.

 

 

Once again I disagree with Tyrell leaving, especially after Myrcellas engagement.

 

Doesn't happen if he supports Stannis.  And after it why should he compromise and not Stannis?

[Minsc]

How so? He does not seem to be as austere as Stannis, so during a famine he probably have more problems buying supplies or taking loans to buy supplies. He is not as charismatic as Robert, and would have a harder time fighting Targ loyalist and I dont see none of the Baratheon brothers beating dragons, maybe Stannis if he becomes the Night's king or AA.

 

He can make people actually like him thus more willing to engage in loans.  Stannis being a tightwad isn't going to convince anyone to loan him anything if he continue to act the asshole.  Renly is easily as charismatic as Robert, thus would be able to tie the realm together just as well as Robert.

[Stannis broatheon]

 
He can make people actually like him thus more willing to engage in loans.  Stannis being a tightwad isn't going to convince anyone to loan him anything if he continue to act the asshole.  Renly is easily as charismatic as Robert, thus would be able to tie the realm together just as well as Robert.

Are you saying that Renly would get money more easily from banks because some people like him? That is one of the stupidest arguments I have ever heard, the next time that you ask for a loan to the bank just bring your friends, they surely would give you a loan before a person that pays regurlarly his bills. As to Renly beign more charismatic than Robert... Robert made his enemies allies almost instanly while Renly gather most of his force through his own bannermen and his wive's father bannermen.No evidence of any feat close to Robert's

[Fat Mac]

 

He can make people actually like him thus more willing to engage in loans.  Stannis being a tightwad isn't going to convince anyone to loan him anything if he continue to act the asshole.  Renly is easily as charismatic as Robert, thus would be able to tie the realm together just as well as Robert.

 

Well we actually have a scene in the books where someone gives Stannis a loan so.... :dunno:

[Minsc]

Are you saying that Renly would get money more easily from banks because some people like him? That is one of the stupidest arguments I have ever heard, the next time that you ask for a loan to the bank just bring your friends, they surely would give you a loan before a person that pays regurlarly his bills. As to Renly beign more charismatic than Robert... Robert made his enemies allies almost instanly while Renly gather most of his force through his own bannermen and his wive's father bannermen.No evidence of any feat close to Robert's

 

There is no reason to believe Renly wouldn't regularly pay his bills seeing how even Robert managed that,  In fact, the banks might like a person that takes longer as that allows for more interest.  Robert had to fight a number of his own bannermen during his rebellion, while Renly had at worst a few stay neutral during his.

 

 

 

Well we actually have a scene in the books where someone gives Stannis a loan so.... :dunno:

 

Cersei is an even worse asshole then him.  If she didn't decide to stiff the Iron Bank I doubt he would ever get a loan.

[Stannis broatheon]

 
There is no reason to believe Renly wouldn't regularly pay his bills seeing how even Robert managed that,  In fact, the banks might like a person that takes longer as that allows for more interest.  Robert had to fight a number of his own bannermen during his rebellion, while Renly had at worst a few stay neutral during his.
 
 
 
Cersei is an even worse asshole then him.  If she didn't decide to stiff the Iron Bank I doubt he would ever get a loan.

Are you 12? How can you think that beign an asshole influence a bank to lend you money? A simple question. Who would you lend money, to a friend that works hardly everyday and likes to save money, or a person that does not care about saving and likes to spend all his money in parties and drugs but has lots of friends?
Seriously your argument is just stupid.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

By "brothers" you mean Stannis and Renly, right? Because I doubt including Robert here is even intended, lol.

 

Personally, I'll go with either of them (between S and Renly, I mean). Stannis is indeed a rightful man and he would get rid of every sign of corruption in KL. Problem is that he sucks at PR, something that you need in politics (even if you're a King). Renly lacked experience but had he surrounded himself with better people, he could have done a great job. They could have been a great team. Sadly, they did not even try.

[Minsc]

Are you 12? How can you think that begin an asshole influence a bank to lend you money? A simple question. Who would you lend money, to a friend that works hardly everyday and likes to save money, or a person that does not care about saving and likes to spend all his money in parties and drugs but has lots of friends?
Seriously your argument is just stupid.

 

First, none of the situations fit the situation we are talking about.  There is nothing that hints at Renly as being a person that does not care about saving and likes to spend all his money in parties and drugs.  If anything that is Robert, aka a person who was able to secure various loans.

 

Having friends allows one to have various options of where to have money loaned from.  Secondly, being a personable person that people like makes it so people will being more willing to take risks with you.  While, being an unrepentant asshole limits your options and might make people more stringent on you.

[Hugorfonics]

Yes, they are good men.  Randyll isn't going to ensure the realm is constantly at war under Renly. (if anything Stannis is much more likely to cause that)
 
Being headstrong doesn't make someone a bad person.
 
How did Renly refuse all compromises?  In fact, he offered a number of generous compromises to his opponents in exchange for their support.  Renly was completely adapt at diplomacy at seen in his alliance with the Tyrells.  He came up with perfectly solid strategy of how to take the Iron Throne (especially compared to his brother's).

Randylls justice in Maidenpool is beyond cruel. He's also quite misogynistic. But his war hawkness is the real issue.
Being headstrong is bad. That's how Jaime lost riverrun, and this green teenager gets to lead the van, only adding to his ego.
He offered no compromises
Good diplomacy? He banged out a preteen till he saw hearts and asked his dad if he can keep him.
Good strategy? Drink party and leave your supply line far from your soldiers?

Nor is Stannis at Dragonstone the majority of the time.
 

 
Randyll isn't exceptionally cruel besides towards his son.  In fact, his justice isn't that different from Stannis'.  The smallfolk won't give a shit about him.
 

 
Because then he is fighting against the combined might of the Lannisters and the Tyrells.  Mace isn't going to fight in support of crowning Stannis, especially when siding with the Lannisters gives him what he most wants.
 

 
She is in her early thirties not almost forty.  Unless Stannis castrates himself then it isn't safe to bet on that.
 

 
No, Renly asked Ned to use common sense and perform the necessary actions to ensure Robert's will is followed.
 

 
Yes, that is why he wouldn't let him be independent you know the same stance all three kings made.  However, he was willing to compromise to allow Robb to keep his title.
 

 
Doesn't happen if he supports Stannis.  And after it why should he compromise and not Stannis?

I'm not saying Stannis is beloved, just smallfolk like Renly for petty issues
Randyll is a dick, I already explained.
Loras has been attached to Renlys hip for the longest, why would Mace brake that off? Tell his son to kill his boyfriend?
Honestly I have no idea how old she is, do you? Regardless it's a known fact that Stannis shuns her.
Common sense, of course arrest a mother and her children! The realm would love that. And Roberts will says just that, except it actually says give the throne to Stannis
Like Robb gave Balon a title. It's immature, ridiculous, and debunks the word king. Tywin and Tyrion were contemplating letting Balon be a separate king.
Dudes have been going out for the longest, Loras would never fight Renly.
Because Stannis is king without an heir, this is a win win situation for the brothers

[Ramsay Gimp]

The arguments of the Renly-haters are pathetic. 

[Resonant Frequency]

Stannis, far and away.
He doesn't mince words, he rewards people for their efforts and contributions, punishes people for their transgressions, and puts his duty/the realm above virtually everything else.

[Minsc]

Randylls justice in Maidenpool is beyond cruel. He's also quite misogynistic. But his war hawkness is the real issue.

 

Tarly's justice is more then likely standard justice no different then what other lords would do.  So is everyone else so they wouldn't care.  He is no more a war hawk then anyone else thus his presence wouldn't cause any wars.

 

 

Being headstrong is bad. That's how Jaime lost riverrun, and this green teenager gets to lead the van, only adding to his ego.

 

Loras is perfectly adapt as leading the vanguard with him being in line with choices that both Stannis and Tywin make to lead their own.

 

 

He offered no compromises

 

Yes, he did.  He offered to allow Robb to keep the title of king and he offered Stannis Storm's End.

 

 

Good diplomacy?

 

Yes winning over one of the strongest lords in the realm is solid diplomacy.

 

 

Good strategy?

 

Yep.  Only your enemies to bled themselves while he only become stronger is a solid strategy.  Catelyn is a conservative strategist and admits Robert, a skilled commander, would have done the same.

 

 

I'm not saying Stannis is beloved, just smallfolk like Renly for petty issues

 

The majority of the people the smallfolk like is for petty issues.

 

 

Loras has been attached to Renlys hip for the longest, why would Mace brake that off? Tell his son to kill his boyfriend?

 

Because Mace wants his daughter to be queen more then he cares about Loras' boyfriend and he definitely doesn't want Stannis on the throne endangering his family and their holdings.  Loras doesn't have to be sent against Renly.

 

 

Honestly I have no idea how old she is, do you? Regardless it's a known fact that Stannis shuns her.

 

She is Stannis' age is he is Ned's age.  Stannis was still planning to have a son.

 

 

Common sense, of course arrest a mother and her children! The realm would love that. And Roberts will says just that, except it actually says give the throne to Stannis

 

Common sense says a paper shield is worth shit, instead whoever controls the king controls the throne.  Robert's will says that Ned is to act as Joffrey's regent with no mention of Stannis at all.

 

 

Like Robb gave Balon a title. It's immature, ridiculous, and debunks the word king. Tywin and Tyrion were contemplating letting Balon be a separate king.

 

Renly is more powerful the Robb, which isn't true of Robb and Balon.  No they weren't.

 

 

Because Stannis is king without an heir, this is a win win situation for the brothers

 

It is even more a win win if Stannis bends to Renly as then no one has to betray their extremely powerful allies.

[TimJames]

Stannis, would be the best person for the realm. He doesn't tolerate backstabbing bullshit, so I doubt he would let scheming opportunists get in the way of him running the kingdom. While he might not be loved, I CAN see him being respected.

Next comes Robert; Robert reigned over an era of unprecedented peace which began with him liberating the kingdoms from the rule of tyrannical inbred rascist lunatics. If he had been surrounded by friends and loyal men (instead of parasites and littlefingers) then he might have gotten a handle on how to run a kingdom.

Renly would not make a good King. He's like copper; neat to look at but at the end of the day useless. Holding a tourney is not something you do during wartime, nor do you march at a slow pace. I can't see Renly being all that competent a ruler.

[Minsc]

Renly would not make a good King. He's like copper; neat to look at but at the end of the day useless. Holding a tourney is not something you do during wartime, nor do you march at a slow pace. I can't see Renly being all that competent a ruler.

 

Why not? If you are able to win the war without having to fight a battle that is the height of skill.  And Renly was well on his way to achieving that.

 

 

Stannis, would be the best person for the realm. He doesn't tolerate backstabbing bullshit, so I doubt he would let scheming opportunists get in the way of him running the kingdom. While he might not be loved, I CAN see him being respected.

 

Besides the fact that he filled his court with scheming opportunists.

[Hol Horse]

If Renly could avoid being manipulated by Varys/Littlefinger and isn't brought down by them he'd probably be the best fit for the throne.

 

I don't think Stannis would be a bad king either, but he'd definitely have a lot more enemies than Renly - especially if he allowed R'hllorism to flourish and clash with the FotS.

[Hugorfonics]

Tarly's justice is more then likely standard justice no different then what other lords would do.  So is everyone else so they wouldn't care.  He is no more a war hawk then anyone else thus his presence wouldn't cause any wars.
 

 
Loras is perfectly adapt as leading the vanguard with him being in line with choices that both Stannis and Tywin make to lead their own.
 

 
Yes, he did.  He offered to allow Robb to keep the title of king and he offered Stannis Storm's End.
 

 
Yes winning over one of the strongest lords in the realm is solid diplomacy.
 

 
Yep.  Only your enemies to bled themselves while he only become stronger is a solid strategy.  Catelyn is a conservative strategist and admits Robert, a skilled commander, would have done the same.
 

 
The majority of the people the smallfolk like is for petty issues.
 

 
Because Mace wants his daughter to be queen more then he cares about Loras' boyfriend and he definitely doesn't want Stannis on the throne endangering his family and their holdings.  Loras doesn't have to be sent against Renly.
 

 
She is Stannis' age is he is Ned's age.  Stannis was still planning to have a son.
 

 
Common sense says a paper shield is worth shit, instead whoever controls the king controls the throne.  Robert's will says that Ned is to act as Joffrey's regent with no mention of Stannis at all.
 

 
Renly is more powerful the Robb, which isn't true of Robb and Balon.  No they weren't.
 
 

 
It is even more a win win if Stannis bends to Renly as then no one has to betray their extremely powerful allies.

1. Who else do we see dispensing justice?
2. The only time Loras ever led a battle, he almost died. Burns and stuff, from rushing in headstrong.
3. He did offer Storms End, I think that was more of an insult then compromise though
4. It's prostitution. He got the Tyrells but I wouldn't call it a great feat. (Who decided that Loras should squire for him?)
5. And Robert was an idiot. Ned put Robert on his chair

How like his brother Robert he was, even in that . . . only Robert had always had Eddard Stark to temper his boldness with caution. Ned would surely have prevailed upon Robert to bring up his whole force, to encircle Stannis and besiege the besiegers. That choice Renly had denied himself in his headlong rush to come to grips with his brother. He had outdistanced his supply lines, left food and forage days behind with all his wagons and mules and oxen. He must come to battle soon, or starve.

6. Cool, where does it say this? (Not that I don't believe you)
When did Stannis ever say he's planning on having a son? (Here I don't believe you :P )
7.
That's what Robert wanted, not what the will says.

"Robert . . . " Joffrey is not your son, he wanted to say, but the words would not come. The agony was written too plainly across Robert's face; he could not hurt him more. So Ned bent his head and wrote, but where the king had said "my son Joffrey," he scrawled "my heir" instead. The deceit made him feel soiled. The lies we tell for love, he thought. May the gods forgive me.

9. They're both powerful enough.
yes they did.

Tyrion read the letter three times and set it aside. Lord Balon's longships would have been a great help against the fleet sailing up from Storm's End, but they were thousands of leagues away on the wrong side of Westeros, and Tyrion was far from certain that he wanted to give away half the realm. Perhaps I should spill this one in Cersei's lap, or take it to the council.

Tywin as well decides to let time tell what's right.
Melisandre? The dragonstone lords? Plus it's blatantly untrue that Tyrells would fight against Renly, or be happy to fight in the same family as Trystine Maryell

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

Stannis would be an effective administrator, but he just has way too many things going against him to have a long reign. Religion, popularity, and alliances really do matter.

I'd say Renly.