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What is Jon Snow's real name?


ErasmusF

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On 12/22/2016 at 2:58 PM, Big Daddy said:

I am guessing (at the moment anyway, my mood could change) that in the books Jon's real name is Aemon, but in the show they will name him Aegon. Ameon ties into Jon's relationship with his maester, and his childhood hero the Dragon knight. While the show will simply go for the cooler sounding name and it is the most famous name.

This sounds good to me!!

Rhaegar named his son with Elia Martell Aegon so i would say Aemon is what he called Jon. I think Rhaegar named Jon, Aemon because he conversed with Maester Aemon through Ravens about 'The Prince That Was Promised' I could easily picture them trading insights and sharing confidences. Rhaegar was known to be intelligent and scholarly im sure he could recognize the same traits in Aemon and that played a part in his decision. 

 

Currently in the show there's no mummers Dragon in Westeros so i also think they will change it to Aegon. XD

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On 18.12.2016 at 6:55 PM, Jon's Queen Consort said:

I have no idea about it. I am only asking if in Greek pronunciation Aegon is pronounced "Eejon".

 

It is (or can because Greeks still can use english pronunciation) spelled in modern greek as Ejon but this "j" isn't english one (like in Jon"), it is more like y in"yeah". And what is more, it is spelled as j only because ancient gamma, which was spelled like g in "game" is read in modern greek as j (y from "yeah") after vowel so hagios is read as "ajos" or "ayos" in english.

As for Jon's name, I believe that his name is Aegon, even Lyanna's lips in the show indicates that. But not only that. I think that everyone are underestimating historical and literary inspiprations of Martin. So I believe that Young Griff will rule briefly as Aegon VI (and what is interesting, his plot was inspired by Druon's Cursed Kings and his story of Giovanni Baglioni and infant Jean I of France, if you didn't read that, I am urging you to do that), Jon will eventually rule as king Aegon VII (aka Henry VII of England), and he will unite Westeros and bring peace to the realm as Henry VII did. I even think that he will rule as Aegon VII in the show too. If they fabricated Maegor III, or II iirc, then they can make Jon seventh of his name without young Griff as sixth. 

There are more historical hints that proves Martin inspirations. Particularly regarding Henry's father, Edmund Tudor. He was born from secret marriage of queen dowager Catherine de Valois and Owen Tudor (it resembles Lyanna and Rhaegar situation) and died shortly after Henry's birth (like Rhaegar). Edmund clearly inspired Martin in creation of both Rhaegar and Jon.

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If Jon is named Aegon in the show and if Jon is then made king, then I believe it shows that Aegon in the book is real and will end up on the throne. Seriously. There is no other reason for the name Aegon to be used at all in the show. And Jon was not given the same name as his older brother.

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It doesn't prove anything. I think that we will never find out whether Young Griff is real or not, it isn't even important. I believe that he is only there to conclude King's Landing plot. My guess is, based on what happened in the show, that he will take King's Landing allied with Martells and Tyrells, Tommen will die during the sack, Cersei goes underground with Qyburn and then, during a coronation and wedding of Aegon and Margery (so ironic it will be, its too good to not happen and somehow it all will be connected with High Sparrow, maybe he is an agent of Varys?), great sept of Baelor will explode, and with it the perfect prince. 

As for Jon's name. In history it wasn't uncommon to name more children with the same name. And why Jon should be named like that? For the same reason both in the books and in the show. After Aegon the Conqueror. Rhaegar named him Aegon because he believed that Jon will be the PTWP and song of ice and fire, in the same way as when he believed that he was the prince, then that his first son was and later he discovered ice and fire prophecy.

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4 hours ago, White26 said:

It doesn't prove anything. I think that we will never find out whether Young Griff is real or not, it isn't even important. I believe that he is only there to conclude King's Landing plot. My guess is, based on what happened in the show, that he will take King's Landing allied with Martells and Tyrells, Tommen will die during the sack, Cersei goes underground with Qyburn and then, during a coronation and wedding of Aegon and Margery (so ironic it will be, its too good to not happen and somehow it all will be connected with High Sparrow, maybe he is an agent of Varys?), great sept of Baelor will explode, and with it the perfect prince. 

As for Jon's name. In history it wasn't uncommon to name more children with the same name. And why Jon should be named like that? For the same reason both in the books and in the show. After Aegon the Conqueror. Rhaegar named him Aegon because he believed that Jon will be the PTWP and song of ice and fire, in the same way as when he believed that he was the prince, then that his first son was and later he discovered ice and fire prophecy.

I love how much people hate Young Griff. If Young Griff were unimportant to the story than GRRM wouldn't have foreshadowed him from AGOT. If you are guessing based on the show, you are guessing based on something that all parties involved (D&D & GRRM) say has now widely diverged.

It doesn't matter what happened in history. When I was a kid there was a man who lived down the street who had 5 sons. He named sons 1, 2, 3 and 5 Roger. He named son number 4 Joe. Who the hell knows why he named his sons that way. That man who lived down the street was not GRRM, so the fact that there was someone who named their sons like that doesn't mean GRRM will. In fact, I am basing my statement that Jon was not named Aegon on the books, not some imaginary connection between "history" and what GRRM wrote.

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On 1/1/2017 at 0:45 PM, White26 said:

It is (or can because Greeks still can use english pronunciation) spelled in modern greek as Ejon but this "j" isn't english one (like in Jon"), it is more like y in"yeah". And what is more, it is spelled as j only because ancient gamma, which was spelled like g in "game" is read in modern greek as j (y from "yeah") after vowel so hagios is read as "ajos" or "ayos" in english.

I think that you are confused. In the greek translation of the books Jon's name is Τζον which is pronounced Jon. It has nothing to do with Aegon, Αίγκον.

On 1/1/2017 at 0:45 PM, White26 said:

It is (or can because Greeks still can use english pronunciation) spelled in modern greek as Ejon but this "j" isn't english one (like in Jon"), it is more like y in"yeah". And what is more, it is spelled as j only because ancient gamma, which was spelled like g in "game" is read in modern greek as j (y from "yeah") after vowel so hagios is read as "ajos" or "ayos" in english.

You are wrong.

On 1/1/2017 at 0:45 PM, White26 said:

even Lyanna's lips in the show indicates that.

Book canon=/=tv series cannon.

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On 2.01.2017 at 0:14 AM, bent branch said:

I love how much people hate Young Griff. If Young Griff were unimportant to the story than GRRM wouldn't have foreshadowed him from AGOT. If you are guessing based on the show, you are guessing based on something that all parties involved (D&D & GRRM) say has now widely diverged.

It doesn't matter what happened in history. When I was a kid there was a man who lived down the street who had 5 sons. He named sons 1, 2, 3 and 5 Roger. He named son number 4 Joe. Who the hell knows why he named his sons that way. That man who lived down the street was not GRRM, so the fact that there was someone who named their sons like that doesn't mean GRRM will. In fact, I am basing my statement that Jon was not named Aegon on the books, not some imaginary connection between "history" and what GRRM wrote.

Aegon is actually my favourite character in SOIAF. And yes it indeed matters what happened in the history because history inspired Martin. You are denying my theory because it's based on history? It is better then guessing from nothing. We can create wide variety of theories, but looking at Martin inspirations gives us more insight into his work and plot creation. Thats why i pointed to Druon novels which inspired Martin (what he said himself). You are basing your statement that Jon wasn't named Agon on nothing because it wasn't stated yet in the books what his true name is. So I am theoretising that he was named Aegon because of the prophey and of the number VII which is an important number in SOIAF as well as is a regnal number of Henry VII, restorer of English kingdom. So my assumptions are based on something. That is better then nothing. I'm not saying that i am right, it is just a theory based on argumentation presented above. You can agree with it or not.

And my connections aren't imaginary, I will give you an example, here again from Druon novel. If you read it, then you will see that Robert Baratheon's physical aparence, character and name were based on Robert III d'Artois. Second, Ilirio Mopatis resembles Cola di Rienzo, "tribune" of Rome. Martin himself said that Druon was one of his inspirations and even provided new edition of his books with his own foreword. 

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7 hours ago, White26 said:

Aegon is actually my favourite character in SOIAF. And yes it indeed matters what happened in the history because history inspired Martin. You are denying my theory because it's based on history? It is better then guessing from nothing. We can create wide variety of theories, but looking at Martin inspirations gives us more insight into his work and plot creation. Thats why i pointed to Druon novels which inspired Martin (what he said himself). You are basing your statement that Jon wasn't named Agon on nothing because it wasn't stated yet in the books what his true name is. So I am theoretising that he was named Aegon because of the prophey and of the number VII which is an important number in SOIAF as well as is a regnal number of Henry VII, restorer of English kingdom. So my assumptions are based on something. That is better then nothing. I'm not saying that i am right, it is just a theory based on argumentation presented above. You can agree with it or not.

And my connections aren't imaginary, I will give you an example, here again from Druon novel. If you read it, then you will see that Robert Baratheon's physical aparence, character and name were based on Robert III d'Artois. Second, Ilirio Mopatis resembles Cola di Rienzo, "tribune" of Rome. Martin himself said that Druon was one of his inspirations and even provided new edition of his books with his own foreword. 

His true name is Jon. It is total wild ass speculation that he has a Targaryen name.

Inspiration:  the process of being mentally stimulated to do or feel something, especially to do something creative

Notice how the definition of inspiration doesn't include copying stories exactly. Also, notice how Robert Baratheon and Robert II d'Artois have completely different life stories.

You see, I don't base my guesses on anything but GRRM's use of literary devices, like foreshadowing. GRRM is a master at his craft and you don't need to go outside his stories to make very good guesses at what is going to happen in story.

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On 1/4/2017 at 1:00 AM, bent branch said:

His true name is Jon. It is total wild ass speculation that he has a Targaryen name.

Inspiration:  the process of being mentally stimulated to do or feel something, especially to do something creative

Notice how the definition of inspiration doesn't include copying stories exactly. Also, notice how Robert Baratheon and Robert II d'Artois have completely different life stories.

You see, I don't base my guesses on anything but GRRM's use of literary devices, like foreshadowing. GRRM is a master at his craft and you don't need to go outside his stories to make very good guesses at what is going to happen in story.

His name is Jon, that's indisputable. Ned named him that but i don't think it would be wild ass speculation for his parents or at least his mother to name him.

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I think Rheagar stayed with Lyanna until he was born, named him and at minimal, secured a Legitimization from his father when he returned to King's Landing to take command of the Royal Army and personally charge Jaime with protecting his family. Lyanna, if dead in the books died sort of like Queen Jane Seymore, a little while after the birth but long enough for Ned to get to her after the Trident and Robert to get to King's Landing. Still, I wonder how he knew she was at the Tower of Joy and who told him? Varys? or even Grand Maester Pycelle? To take that further, if they knew, then they might know more about Jon. Getting ahead here but I also think in the books that there is far more to the story of the Tower of Joy, the skirmish that happened there and who actually survived to leave and or part in separate/multiple directions.

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On 1/1/2017 at 7:58 AM, bent branch said:

If Jon is named Aegon in the show and if Jon is then made king, then I believe it shows that Aegon in the book is real and will end up on the throne. Seriously. There is no other reason for the name Aegon to be used at all in the show. And Jon was not given the same name as his older brother.

No, it just means that showrunners are lazy and they never did any background for Targs in the show beyond - Rhaegar, Aegon, Aemon. So, if GRRM couldn't tell him Jon's real name because he didn't decide at that time, they just went with Aegon because a) most popular Targ name and 2) because of fAegon storyline in the book

 

On 1/1/2017 at 6:14 PM, bent branch said:

I love how much people hate Young Griff.  

Most people hate Young Griff is because he is a minor character that comes out of nowhere to usurp main hero destiny. Its usually the psychological reaction for these kinds of characters. (secret prince in hiding working to regain his identity and throne and gain victory, and as he is in step 7 of Hero's Journey structure, a new character jumps over steps to final step 12, stealing and claiming his identity and rightful place for his own). 

 

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On 8/26/2015 at 10:49 AM, ErasmusF said:

(R+L=J Spoilers below, I suppose)

 

 

 

So it occurs to me that if R+L=J is true, then Jon Snow isn't a real name. Posting this under WoW because I am 95% sure we will get the reveal in WoW whether Jon (if that's his real name!) is dead or alive. 

 

Of course, the "Snow" part is wrong, since he was most likely born in Dorne anyway. 

 

I am also thinking "Jon" isn't real. Jon isn't a typical Stark or Targaryan name. It's almost a tip of the hat by GRRM that Ned didn't pick a typical Stark name... Torrhen, Cregan, Beron, Ed, or Artos being traditional Stark names not taken or later assigned to another child. If he were truly Ned's son, he would not have picked a generic name - Jon Snow = John Doe.

 

More than likely, Rhaegar and Lyanna picked a Targaryan name. Options not already assigned to his other kids or siblings... Aenar, Aemon, Maegor, Baelor, Jaehaerys, Daeron, Maekar. Aenys, Aerys. Cooler if he names him after a dragon, like Balerion or Vhagar. Unlikley that he picked a name of one of the great bastards, Aegor or Daemon. Those are all in order of likelihood, in my eyes.     

 

Maybe not, and Rhaegar picked a traditional Stark name, in which case my money is on Torrhen who had the wisdom to bend the knee rather than see the North burn. This seems to be the case with Brynden Rivers, but that might have had more to do with his father's growing disinterest in naming his bastards. I think this only happens if the marriage was on the Isle of Faces and Jon is a legitimate Targ. Torrhen Targaryan has an alliterative ring to it.

 

So last name possibilities, in order of likelihood, IMO: Targaryan, Sand (born), Rivers (conceived), Snow (mom).

 

My best guess at Jon Snow's true name is:

Aenar Targaryan - named for the founder of the house, since he is TPTWP (I think Rhaegar realized his error in naming Aegon that) and he is hoped to refound House Targaryan.

Torrhen Targaryan - Ice and Fire

Aemon Targaryan - I just find it funny that two people with the same name would talk and not even know it. 

 

 

Name your top 3.  

Jon Stark was a king who founded the Wolf's Den.  So it is a Stark name.

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On 1/7/2017 at 9:44 AM, A Ghost of Someone said:

I think Rheagar stayed with Lyanna until he was born, named him and at minimal, secured a Legitimization from his father when he returned to King's Landing to take command of the Royal Army and personally charge Jaime with protecting his family. Lyanna, if dead in the books died sort of like Queen Jane Seymore, a little while after the birth but long enough for Ned to get to her after the Trident and Robert to get to King's Landing. Still, I wonder how he knew she was at the Tower of Joy and who told him? Varys? or even Grand Maester Pycelle? To take that further, if they knew, then they might know more about Jon. Getting ahead here but I also think in the books that there is far more to the story of the Tower of Joy, the skirmish that happened there and who actually survived to leave and or part in separate/multiple directions.

Your theory doesn't work because of the timing. If there is a pregnancy/after-pregnancy complication and woman dies, its usually 1) during birth 2) within several days after birth or 3) at most 10 or so days after birth (like your example Jane Seymore who died in less than 12 days after birth).

Your timeline lasts for at least a month. Rhaegar needed to come back from Dorne and take control of the armies, arrive at Trident, die at Trident, Robert/Ned needed to arrive at KL and sack KL then get into fight and Ned needed to leave and arrive at TOJ while Lyanna was still alive so she could die in his arms.  

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1 hour ago, Masha said:

Your theory doesn't work because of the timing. If there is a pregnancy/after-pregnancy complication and woman dies, its usually 1) during birth 2) within several days after birth or 3) at most 10 or so days after birth (like your example Jane Seymore who died in less than 12 days after birth).

Your timeline lasts for at least a month. Rhaegar needed to come back from Dorne and take control of the armies, arrive at Trident, die at Trident, Robert/Ned needed to arrive at KL and sack KL then get into fight and Ned needed to leave and arrive at TOJ while Lyanna was still alive so she could die in his arms.  

I think it is certainly possible. The problem is, in the books we have not had the run down on the Tower of Joy yet, you may be right but then again, why did Rheagar wait so damn long after he knew Lyanna was pregnant to come and take control of anything other than the royal army for the one battle which he lost and his life with it? He seemingly was a away when everything went to shit and did nothing at all that we know of to stop the carnage. Nothing. He could have called for a truce behind his father's back but he seems cool with what happened to Lyanna's father, eldest brother and also did not seem to give a fig if Ned died. This and he supposedly LOVED HIS LYANNA? Pretty cold if you ask me and did she know what was going on in Westeros? Did she care? Did she try and have him intervene? Until lots of those questions are answered, well, light is not shining so bright on them at the time being.

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2 hours ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

I think it is certainly possible. The problem is, in the books we have not had the run down on the Tower of Joy yet, you may be right but then again, why did Rheagar wait so damn long after he knew Lyanna was pregnant to come and take control of anything other than the royal army for the one battle which he lost and his life with it? He seemingly was a away when everything went to shit and did nothing at all that we know of to stop the carnage. Nothing. He could have called for a truce behind his father's back but he seems cool with what happened to Lyanna's father, eldest brother and also did not seem to give a fig if Ned died. This and he supposedly LOVED HIS LYANNA? Pretty cold if you ask me and did she know what was going on in Westeros? Did she care? Did she try and have him intervene? Until lots of those questions are answered, well, light is not shining so bright on them at the time being.

It is not possible for a theory to have Rhaegar to be present at the birth of Lyanna's baby and have Lyanna be alive till Ned gets to TOJ and then die from birthing/after-birth complications.  Its been clearly said that Lyanna died in a bed of blood - by Ned and other characters in GOT. In ASOAIF the phrase "the bed of blood" refers exclusively to women dying in childbirth because of uncontrolled bleeding. During such bleeding, woman dies within HOURS of giving birth not days and certainly not weeks. Unless you claim that its possible that Lyanna died of a deadly wound... but that will not be referred to in the books as "bed of blood" which there only refers to women dying in childbirth. Jane Seymour took 2 weeks to die because she died of post-birth fever, not uncontrolled bleeding. So her example is irrelevant 

As for your questions about Rhaegar's reasoning. All these will be clear if one question is answered, why did Lyanna and Rhaegar told NO ONE that they run off together and she did so on her own free will and he planned to marry her? Because everything that happened would be avoided if HER family knew that she run off on her own free will and not been stolen against her will. Because then it becomes embarrassment and political problem for Starks/Targaeryens, not rage inducing kidnapping/rape scenario that happened.

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15 minutes ago, Masha said:

It is not possible for a theory to have Rhaegar to be present at the birth of Lyanna's baby and have Lyanna be alive till Ned gets to TOJ and then die from birthing/after-birth complications.  Its been clearly said that Lyanna died in a bed of blood - by Ned and other characters in GOT. In ASOAIF the phrase "the bed of blood" refers exclusively to women dying in childbirth because of uncontrolled bleeding. During such bleeding, woman dies within HOURS of giving birth not days and certainly not weeks. Unless you claim that its possible that Lyanna died of a deadly wound... but that will not be referred to in the books as "bed of blood" which there only refers to women dying in childbirth. Jane Seymour took 2 weeks to die because she died of post-birth fever, not uncontrolled bleeding. So her example is irrelevant 

As for your questions about Rhaegar's reasoning. All these will be clear if one question is answered, why did Lyanna and Rhaegar told NO ONE that they run off together and she did so on her own free will and he planned to marry her? Because everything that happened would be avoided if HER family knew that she run off on her own free will and not been stolen against her will. Because then it becomes embarrassment and political problem for Starks/Targaeryens, not rage inducing kidnapping/rape scenario that happened.

That is always a possibility as far as Rheagar being there for the birth, otherwise, what was he doing there all that time but to altleast no make sure that his child would come into the World? However, maybe he had to leave to the status of the war as his family and allies were losing. I do also hold out that the Tower of Joy and who survived to leave there may not be as how we have been led to believe. The show already made some differences as to what we do know (2 KG on show, 3 in the book).

The true story regarding what happened between Rheagar, Lyanna at the inner circle of who was in on "the know" is something I hope the books brings to light. We need those answers.

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16 hours ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

That is always a possibility as far as Rheagar being there for the birth, otherwise, what was he doing there all that time but to altleast no make sure that his child would come into the World? However, maybe he had to leave to the status of the war as his family and allies were losing. I do also hold out that the Tower of Joy and who survived to leave there may not be as how we have been led to believe. The show already made some differences as to what we do know (2 KG on show, 3 in the book).

The true story regarding what happened between Rheagar, Lyanna at the inner circle of who was in on "the know" is something I hope the books brings to light. We need those answers.

I am almost 100% sure there is no chance of Rhaegar being there for the birth. Timeline and nature of Lyanna's death does not allow for that at all. She died within hours or at most couple of days after Jon's death unless your theory claims she didn't die of post-birth complications but of sword/knife wound -  she did die of bleeding.

Rhaegar has left her weeks if not months before.  

Furthermore, Rhaegar had to leave Lyanna because he had no choice, his father pretty much lost the Rebellion and the future of Targs was at stake, his father sent Gerald Hightower with urgent order to get Rhaegar home and at that time Rhaegar had to obey regardless of his wishes

 

 

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5 hours ago, Masha said:

I am almost 100% sure there is no chance of Rhaegar being there for the birth. Timeline and nature of Lyanna's death does not allow for that at all. She died within hours or at most couple of days after Jon's death unless your theory claims she didn't die of post-birth complications but of sword/knife wound -  she did die of bleeding.

Rhaegar has left her weeks if not months before.  

Furthermore, Rhaegar had to leave Lyanna because he had no choice, his father pretty much lost the Rebellion and the future of Targs was at stake, his father sent Gerald Hightower with urgent order to get Rhaegar home and at that time Rhaegar had to obey regardless of his wishes

 

 

Not on show but books maybe, a long shot but we may have to wait years for that or may never know. 

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1 hour ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

Not on show but books maybe, a long shot but we may have to wait years for that or may never know. 

I am talking based off the books and not in the show.

 In the books, Ned and others remember Lyanna dying in a "bed of blood", "smell of roses and blood". Furthermore, books 100% associate the expression "bed of blood" to women dying in childbirth from uncontrolled bleeding. So if Lyanna in the books died in the "bed of blood" and the books associate it only with women dying in childbirth, Lyanna died from complications in childbirth = uncontrolled bleeding. In real life and throughout history, women who died from uncontrolled bleeding in childbirth died within hours at most couple of days after actual childbirth.

There is no way, in the books (according to GRRM approved maps of Westeros), Rhaegar managed to be in TOJ during Childbirth, then travel to KL then to Trident, then Ned travel from Trident to KL then to TOJ in space of couple of days or even under 12 days which your example associates to (Jane Seymour who died of birth complications, but of postpartum fever not uncontrolled bleeding and fever takes longer for women to die, obviously). 

Thats why I am saying that for your claim to be correct, and Rhaegar to be there at birth of his child, Lyanna just couldn't die from childbirth complications

 

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