What is Jon Snow's real name?

[The Fattest Leech]

18 minutes ago, J. Stargaryen said:

Are we only considering that one quote?

Only for this little conversation because, to me, that one quote stands out differently than the others ones do. That quote is the one that Peaked my interest. ()

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Even if that is the case, I would point out that the original Dance had two Aegons.

True. And this DotD could actually have two Blackfyres. If Dany retrieves the sword Blackfyre from Aegon (fAegon if one prefers), and IF Jon actually gets Drogon, the black fire, then the DotD could be a mix up from history with a Blackfyre associated with two new Aegon's. A Blackfyre against a black fire.

Quote

Further, it was contested between an even-numbered Aegon and a female claimant. One of the most popular fan theories is that YG will be crowned as Aegon VI. So the promised DotD sequel actually lines up well with the idea that Jon's true name is Aegon. And it might even suggest that his eventual destiny is to be crowned Aegon VII.

Interesting points.

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I know Jon being crowned the eventual king isn't the most popular idea, but if GRRM gives us a sixth Aegon, well... "Six have been found. We are all waiting on the seventh."

Well, I do consider myself one that thinks Jon does not want and will not accept the throne. I think he is part of the bittersweet ending where his tenets will be carried on through those that fought along beside him. But, I could be wrong But IF Jon does take the crown, then he would be the seventh ruby.

Thanks for taking the time. I am not sure if, or, how much of this will happen, but I guess I can't dismiss it all together just yet.

[J. Stargaryen]

6 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Suppressing discussion comes in the form of ridicule and bully behavior rather than debate.  That happens more often than not when the orthodoxy is questioned.  It's the reason why anyone who wants to discuss other ideas; always attach a caveat that RLJ is most likely.  But they have their doubts and they don't want to be subjected to the bully behavior of adolescent minds.  I don't accuse you of this but we have all seen it.  It seems that anyone who dares to discuss anything but RLJ is chased off the forum.  That would explain why there is so little discussion about it here.  But you can find it elsewhere.

1

Sorry, but this is nonsense. 

6 minutes ago, LynnS said:

What is obvious is that the showrunners have taken Aegon's arc from the book and applied it to Jon Snow.  They are two different things and although I think it likely that Aegon and Dany's plot lines will converge; I doubt we can apply it to Jon in the book.

 

I don't think we're supposed to talk about the show here.

6 minutes ago, LynnS said:

I've given an explanation of Jon Arryn's words and this should open up discussion that doesn't exclude Robert as Jon's father.  That is, if anyone is brave enough.  LOL

Again, this topic is about Jon Snow's true name. Earlier I said that in these type of discussions we should assume RLJ, and I explained why I think that is. I think that argument made sense, but it does exclude some people from the discussion. Let's try something a little different. Let's still refrain from arguing about Jon's parentage, but let's keep all options on the table. You think it's RB+L=J, so rather than try to argue why you think that is, stick to arguing what you think Jon's real name is. That's more inclusive, however, the problem is that he probably doesn't have a real name unless he's a Targaryen.

[LynnS]

30 minutes ago, J. Stargaryen said:

Sorry, but this is nonsense. 

I don't think we're supposed to talk about the show here.

Again, this topic is about Jon Snow's true name. Earlier I said that in these type of discussions we should assume RLJ, and I explained why I think that is. I think that argument made sense, but it does exclude some people from the discussion. Let's try something a little different. Let's still refrain from arguing about Jon's parentage, but let's keep all options on the table. You think it's RB+L=J, so rather than try to argue why you think that is, stick to arguing what you think Jon's real name is. That's more inclusive, however, the problem is that he probably doesn't have a real name unless he's a Targaryen.

sup·press

səˈpres/

verb

verb: suppress; 3rd person present: suppresses; past tense: suppressed; past participle: suppressed; gerund or present participle: suppressing

1. forcibly put an end to.

   "the uprising was savagely suppressed"

   synonyms:

   subdue, repress, crush, quell, quash, squash, stamp out; More defeat, conquer, overpower, put down, crack down on; end, stop, terminate, halt "they could suppress the rebellion"

   antonyms:

   incite, encourage

   • prevent the development, action, or expression of (a feeling, impulse, idea, etc.); restrain.

     "she could not suppress a rising panic"

     synonyms:

     conceal, restrain, stifle, smother, bottle up, hold back, control, check, curb, contain, bridle, inhibit, keep a rein on, put a lid on "she suppressed her irritation"

     antonyms:

     express

   • prevent the dissemination of (information).

     "the report had been suppressed"

     synonyms:

     censor, keep secret, conceal, hide, hush up, gag, withhold, cover up, stifle;

[J. Stargaryen]

1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Only for this little conversation because, to me, that one quote stands out differently than the others ones do. That quote is the one that Peaked my interest. ()

True. And this DotD could actually have two Blackfyres. If Dany retrieves the sword Blackfyre from Aegon (fAegon if one prefers), and IF Jon actually gets Drogon, the black fire, then the DotD could be a mix up from history with a Blackfyre associated with two new Aegon's. A Blackfyre against a black fire.

Interesting points.

Well, I do consider myself one that thinks Jon does not want and will not accept the throne. I think he is part of the bittersweet ending where his tenets will be carried on through those that fought along beside him. But, I could be wrong But IF Jon does take the crown, then he would be the seventh ruby.

Thanks for taking the time. I am not sure if, or, how much of this will happen, but I guess I can't dismiss it all together just yet.

1

I'm more interested in Twin Peaks than Gormon Peake. Gotta Light?

I don't know how much of what I proposed will happen either. But I do see some possible roads opening. Jon as Aegon VII definitely seems possible, but I don't know if it's GRRM's style. 

[J. Stargaryen]

The Case for Aegon Targaryen

[Human Metal]

On 9/9/2017 at 0:18 AM, J. Stargaryen said:

A character with a mysterious secret identity whose name sounds like the in-universe equivalent of John Doe.

The name "Jon Snow" sounds like... the "in-universe equivalent" of John Doe?

Couldn't you just say they rhyme, and leave it at that? 

[JNR]

1 hour ago, Human Metal said:

Couldn't you just say they rhyme, and leave it at that? 

Well, if I follow this premise, the idea is...

To arrive at Jon's fake name/identity, GRRM said to himself at some point prior to October 1993: "I need to reflect this character's mysterious identity with a fake name, but how?  I know -- I'll call him something that rhymes with John Doe.  Er, er, er... Jon Snow."

Then, after that, GRRM came up with the idea of local bastards that are named Snow (for the North).  

It wasn't that GRRM first came up with local bastards having common names, of which Snow is the case in the North, and then the name of "Jon Snow" emerged logically as Ned's tribute to Jon Arryn.  

We know that wasn't the case because if it were, it would be inconvenient for the theory that Jon Snow is not named Jon Snow, which of course is the thing to be demonstrated and has been demonstrated because Jon Snow rhymes with John Doe.  

Quod erat demonstrandum.

 

[The Snowfyre Chorus]

12 hours ago, JNR said:

Quod erat demonstrandum.

The other day I was driving through a roundabout on my way to the bank, and I missed my turn. So I drove around the circle again. Said to my kids in the back seat, "Look guys! We could drive round and round this thing all day!"

For some reason, this theory reminds me of that.

[J. Stargaryen]

On 9/25/2017 at 6:38 PM, JNR said:

It wasn't that GRRM first came up with local bastards having common names, of which Snow is the case in the North, and then the name of "Jon Snow" emerged logically as Ned's tribute to Jon Arryn.  

 

Do you think GRRM wrote a bunch of background information—e.g., bastard naming conventions, Ned's relationship with Jon Arryn, etc.—and used that to name a tier one main character? 

[SirArthur]

Could explain why the entire royalty has so strange names. Cersei Baratheon born Lannister. There is no city of Baratheon or Martell in the entire realm. There is no location called Stark. Not even the Freys have the decency to call themself Twins.

The only real royalty are the Manderlys after the Mander river and maybe Hightower. And some other small royalty folk. You could argue for the Lannisters and the Westerlings. But the rest of the bunch has just common names. 

However,funny enough ,all the northern bastards have a location: snow gate. 

[JNR]

13 hours ago, J. Stargaryen said:

Do you think GRRM wrote a bunch of background information—e.g., bastard naming conventions, Ned's relationship with Jon Arryn, etc.—and used that to name a tier one main character? 

Do you think GRRM named his characters based on rhymes to things in our world?  Really?

What does Daenerys Targaryen rhyme with?  How about Stannis Baratheon?  Arianne Martell?

This should be fascinating...

[J. Stargaryen]

4 hours ago, JNR said:

Do you think GRRM named his characters based on rhymes to things in our world?  Really?

What does Daenerys Targaryen rhyme with?  How about Stannis Baratheon?  Arianne Martell?

This should be fascinating...

I asked you a simple, honest question. I understand why you responded like you did, though. 

[JNR]

19 hours ago, J. Stargaryen said:

I asked you a simple, honest question. I understand why you responded like you did, though. 

Ditto.

[J. Stargaryen]

1 hour ago, JNR said:

Ditto.

 

[DrewStark]

AEGON!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[asongofheresy]

23 hours ago, DrewStark said:

AEGON!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But there is already an Aegon in the story who is also same age as Jon and dies his hair blue to honor his dead mother? He also happens to look like  Rhaegar just like Jon looking like his father, Ned. And becomes a decisive leader and a perfect prince from a sheltered boy with a dotting father figure? He kills the boy and let the man be born just like Aemon said to his brother Aegon. He also wears a straw hat like him? Has a Hegde knight called Duck, while Egg had Dunk. Egg's mother was a Dayne and there is a possiblity of Lemore being Ashara. Why would Jon had to be Aegon when Aegon himself fits to be Rhaegar and Lyanna's son? When GRRM draws parallels between Egg and Aegon this much? And the show itself combined the two characters at the last season. We could start exploring other possibilities for R+L instead of believing R+L=J like it is the ultimate truth. 

[LynnS]

21 minutes ago, Jova Snow said:

We could start exploring other possibilities for R+L instead of believing R+L=J like it is the ultimate truth. 

And spoil the surprise!?  I think not. 

[asongofheresy]

@LynnS I do not think I am able to spoil anything since I do not see anything but hate towards Aegon Young Griff after he was introduced in ADWD... The only possiblity of him being a Blackfyre for majority of the fandom - I don't remember being him appreciated and it is surprising? Him being mummer's dragon because he acts like being Elia's son when he is Lyanna's son will be shocking revelation... 

 

 

[LynnS]

21 minutes ago, Jova Snow said:

@LynnS I do not think I am able to spoil anything since I do not see anything but hate towards Aegon Young Griff after he was introduced in ADWD... The only possiblity of him being a Blackfyre for majority of the fandom - I don't remember being him appreciated and it is surprising? Him being mummer's dragon because he acts like being Elia's son when he is Lyanna's son will be shocking revelation... 

 

 

Agreed, speculation isn't spoiling anything.  As far as I'm concerned Aegon is Elia and Rhaegar's son.  I think there is also a reason that Dany is shown a vision of Aegon in the House of Undying.  She has never met Rhaegar but she is given a vision of him as he looks and she compares him to Viserys. I think when Dany meets up with Aegon, this vision of Rhaegar will inform Aegon's identity; especiallty if he looks like Rhaegar from Dany's vision.  

[asongofheresy]

2 hours ago, LynnS said:

Agreed, speculation isn't spoiling anything.  As far as I'm concerned Aegon is Elia and Rhaegar's son.  I think there is also a reason that Dany is shown a vision of Aegon in the House of Undying.  She has never met Rhaegar but she is given a vision of him as he looks and she compares him to Viserys. I think when Dany meets up with Aegon, this vision of Rhaegar will inform Aegon's identity; especiallty if he looks like Rhaegar from Dany's vision.  

Tbh I kinda like the idea of Aegon being Lyanna's, no hate towards Elia because I love her character more than Lyanna lol, because that would create an Age of Bastards. Aegon - a royal bastard on iron throne. Jon - a highborn bastard as Lord of Winterfell. Edric Storm - another highborn bastard as Lord of Storm's end after the deaths of Stannis and Shireen? I do not know what is the likeliness of it but I really like the idea. 

What would you guys think about Jon being named Brandon? I mean he is Azor Ahai, who is Brandon of the Bloody Blade and there was also Brandon Snow who thought they should fought against Aegon and his dragons and had weirwood arrows. Do we know book Jon would magically bond with Dragons and gave North to Targaryens on golden plate when his own brother died for it's independence? Although Jon being named after Jon Stark, the King who built Wolf's Den is a pleasing idea.