ErasmusF

What is Jon Snow's real name?

242 posts in this topic

Well, considering Rhaegar's face down at the bottom of the Trident with Robert's warhammer sticking out of his head, I don't think he's had a chance to name his posthumous kid.  Lyanna most likely died shortly before she could name him, so Eddard naming him Jon Snow is most likely what happened. He's a Snow, because Eddard claimed him as his bastard.

 

Being a parent myself, you discuss names just about as soon as you find out you're pregnant. Probably even more so when you think your kid is going to be important. 

 

My guess is consistent with what a lot of other people think - there is a scroll and proof in Lyanna's tomb that shows Jon's birth and probably his real name. 

 

As the kitten pointed out there was a Jon Stark, who was the last KITN before Aegon, so maybe it is Jon! Still... boring.  

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"Sounds like fanfiction"... welcome to the whole purpose for this site. 
 Not really. It's about discussing characters, plots, ideas and opinions. That's not fan fiction
"He was most likely under the impression Jon was going to be a girl" ... I am lost as to where there is evidence for that. Dany says he was looking for a Visenya. That doesn't mean he was convinced he was going to get a Visenya, and if so, then why with a Stark and not with Elia?
Because Elia would die if she had any more children - a fact Rhaegar knew, since it was him the maesters told.
And it's not that hard to figure out. Rhaenys, Aegon... Visenya. He said "the dragon must have three heads". The targaryen sigil of a three headed dragon represents Aegon, Rhaneys and Visenya. He (as dany said) was missing a visenya
 
IMO, he realized Elia was not going to bear him TPWWP and started thinking more about the wording "his is the song of ICE and FIRE." Hence, wooing Lyanna... but all that is speculative. It means the Dany's vision at the House of the Undying was a Shaggydog, but with a clue. Rhaegar was looking for TPWWP but he was wrong about the child. In the same series of visions we have a mummers dragon and a blue rose growing out of a wall of ice. 
 The only part I agree with here is "but all that is speculative" And the blue rose growing from a chink of ice was part of a whole other set of visions in the HoTU
"We don't know that Rhaegar loved Lyanna"... well he left his wife and started a war for her. So it's sort of speculative I guess but Occam's Razor says it makes more sense than stealing her to provoke a war and then dying on the losing side without dethroning the guy, presumably, you wanted to dethrone by provoking the war in the first place. What am I missing here? 
 Actual confirmation. There is a whole bunch of reasons as to why Rhaegar went off with Lyanna. From love to saving her from Aerys to kidnapping.
"And frankly there is no reason for them to be married." ... unless of course Rhaegar, who was a studious fellow obsessed with prophecy, figured out the ICE and FIRE part of the TPWWP prophecy (or thought he figured it out), wooed Lyanna after seeing her compete as the Mystery Knight, and aimed to conceive TPWWP with her. He would want him to be legitimate in the eyes of the Targ tradition (basically, take whatever wife you want, you're a targ!) and the Northern traditions (in front of a weirwood). 
 Your taking quite big jumps here
"And 2) we don't know if they were married." ... let me just go back to this one again. Welcome to the ASOIAF Forums! You have a lot of posts for someone who doesn't seem to get the point of the forums (i.e., reasonable speculation, discussion of unknowns, predictions, discussions of interesting bits of writing).  
Yes but while on these forums, people don't tend to talk about their opinions as facts. And welcome to ASoIaF forums! This is a discussion forum. If you present your opinion, be prepared to be called up on it.

Edited by Balerion the kitten

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Jon wasn't named Jon by Rhaegar or Lyanna. Look through the SSM:

 

 

February 28, 2002

...

5. Since all of their mothers died, who gave Jon Snow, Daenerys Targaryen and Tyrion Lannister their names?

Mothers can name a child before birth, or during, or after, even while they are dying. Dany was most like named by her mother, Tyrion by his father, Jon by Ned.

Edited by WhitewolfStark

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 It's about discussing characters, plots, ideas and opinions. That's not fan fiction
Because Elia would die if she had any more children - a fact Rhaegar knew, since it was him the maesters told.
And it's not that hard to figure out. Rhaenys, Aegon... Visenya. He said "the dragon must have three heads". The targaryen sigil of a three headed dragon represents Aegon, Rhaneys and Visenya. He (as dany said) was missing a visenya
 
 The only part I agree with here is "but all that is speculative" And the blue rose growing from a chink of ice was part of a whole other set of visions in the HoTU
 Actual confirmation. There is a whole bunch of reasons as to why Rhaegar went off with Lyanna. From love to saving her from Aerys to kidnapping.
 Your taking quite big jumps here
Yes but while on these forums, people don't tend to talk about their opinions as facts. And welcome to ASoIaF forums! This is a discussion forum. If you present your opinion, be prepared to be called up on it.

 

-1 for me for feeding a troll, but oh well. 

 

" It's about discussing characters, plots, ideas and opinions. That's not fan fiction" 

l'd say that thinking that Jon is not his real name is a lot less fan fiction than it is discussing characters, plots, and ideas. If you don't like speculation, what are you doing on a subforum about a book that hasn't been finished yet? Unless you're just a troll or something. 

 

"He (as dany said) was missing a visenya" 

What Rhaegar said to Dany in the past doesn't tie him down for the future. Maybe he did say it was going to be a girl and it should be called Visenya. Or maybe after some thinking he said "oh, they weren't half sisters. Maybe I've got this all wrong." It's not like the conversation with Dany happened right before the battle at the Trident. 

 

And maybe you're right and he was convinced it was going to be a girl. And there is some stuff in Lyanna's tomb about how awesome she is going to be and how she should rule alongside Aegon as a legitimate queen. That would be a great topic for another thread. Why don't you start it? 

 

"Actual confirmation. "

Yeah, well, looks like we don't get that until Spring of 2016 at best... so until then I guess we're free to speculate. 

 

Your taking quite big jumps here

I think you mean "you're" and there are some jumps. Whether they are big or not is certainly a matter of perspective. Not jumps many others haven't put forth. They clearly disappeared after the Harrenhal tourney. The Isle of Faces is one of the few rock solid hiding places in Westeros for a Prince and a highborn lady.  Mystery Knights are often revealed one way or another. The "jumps" fit into one of the coherent narratives of what transpired prior to Robert's Rebellion and the one that seems to make the most sense to me. 

 

"Yes but while on these forums, people don't tend to talk about their opinions as facts." 

I wasn't aware anyone was talking about opinions as facts. I certainly wasn't.  

 

"And welcome to ASoIaF forums! This is a discussion forum. If you present your opinion, be prepared to be called up on it."

I think you mean called out. And I think I just did. 

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Jon wasn't named Jon by Rhaegar or Lyanna. Look through the SSM:

 

 

Well that settles that I suppose. So what is his real name? 

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-1 for me for feeding a troll, but oh well. 
 
" It's about discussing characters, plots, ideas and opinions. That's not fan fiction" 
l'd say that thinking that Jon is not his real name is a lot less fan fiction than it is discussing characters, plots, and ideas. If you don't like speculation, what are you doing on a subforum about a book that hasn't been finished yet? Unless you're just a troll or something. 
 
"He (as dany said) was missing a visenya" 
What Rhaegar said to Dany in the past doesn't tie him down for the future. Maybe he did say it was going to be a girl and it should be called Visenya. Or maybe after some thinking he said "oh, they weren't half sisters. Maybe I've got this all wrong." It's not like the conversation with Dany happened right before the battle at the Trident. 
 
And maybe you're right and he was convinced it was going to be a girl. And there is some stuff in Lyanna's tomb about how awesome she is going to be and how she should rule alongside Aegon as a legitimate queen. That would be a great topic for another thread. Why don't you start it? 
 
"Actual confirmation. "
Yeah, well, looks like we don't get that until Spring of 2016 at best... so until then I guess we're free to speculate. 
 
Your taking quite big jumps here
I think you mean "you're" and there are some jumps. Whether they are big or not is certainly a matter of perspective. Not jumps many others haven't put forth. They clearly disappeared after the Harrenhal tourney. The Isle of Faces is one of the few rock solid hiding places in Westeros for a Prince and a highborn lady.  Mystery Knights are often revealed one way or another. The "jumps" fit into one of the coherent narratives of what transpired prior to Robert's Rebellion and the one that seems to make the most sense to me. 
 
"Yes but while on these forums, people don't tend to talk about their opinions as facts." 
I wasn't aware anyone was talking about opinions as facts. I certainly wasn't.  
 
"And welcome to ASoIaF forums! This is a discussion forum. If you present your opinion, be prepared to be called up on it."
I think you mean called out. And I think I just did. 

:rolleyes: didn't even read your post after "-1 for feeding the troll" (I'm afraid it was you who was trolling my dear). Discussing or trying to talk about opinions with people like yourself (who get aggressive and defensive when they're logic is called up on) is just really a waste of time, and boring. Edited by Balerion the kitten

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" It's about discussing characters, plots, ideas and opinions. That's not fan fiction" 

l'd say that thinking that Jon is not his real name is a lot less fan fiction than it is discussing characters, plots, and ideas. If you don't like speculation, what are you doing on a subforum about a book that hasn't been finished yet? Unless you're just a troll or something.

 

Discussing whether Jon is the name he was given at birth, is reasonable enough.

 

Any suggestions as to what the eventual different birth name was, is fan fiction. Simple enough.

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Jon Sand.

 

Bastards are named for the region they are raised in, not the region they were born in. This is a surprisingly common mistake on these boards.

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Bastards are named for the region they are raised in, not the region they were born in. This is a surprisingly common mistake on these boards.

 

are you sure? I thought their names derive from their mothers, so if the bastard's mother lives in Dorne, his or her name is Sand.

of course in most cases the home of the mother and the locations where the bastard is raised are the same.

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I always thought it would be Aemon Targaryen, for the simple reason that in one of the Jon POV's he thinks "I am not Aemon Targaryen"

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Presuming Lyanna named him on her deathbed and knew Ned would raise the boy, I don't think she would be stupid enough to give him a Targaryen name. If she knew he was going to be passed off as Ned's bastard she probably just named him Jon, as that's a name Ned would realistically use, especially since he named his actual son after Robert. So my guess would be Jon Targaryen

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:rolleyes: didn't even read your post after "-1 for feeding the troll" (I'm afraid it was you who was trolling my dear). Discussing or trying to talk about opinions with people like yourself (who get aggressive and defensive when they're logic is called up on) is just really a waste of time, and boring.

 

You are wrong on every level. If you don't have something positive to say, why bother dumping all over a thread? I just don't follow what you're doing here. 

Edited by ErasmusF

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Discussing whether Jon is the name he was given at birth, is reasonable enough.

 

Any suggestions as to what the eventual different birth name was, is fan fiction. Simple enough.

 

A couple of you seem to have a different definition of "fan fiction" than is generally accepted, def: 

  1. fiction written by a fan of, and featuring characters from, a particular TV series, movie, etc.

Per Google. 

 

So for example, it would be fan fiction if I said, "wouldn't it be great if Jon Snow got resurrected by Melissandre and renamed himself Ned Blackfyre! And then he bought a pony that could fly and killed an ice dragon! Then there was some sex!" and so on...

 

It's not fan fiction to speculate that the seeming importance of the crypts and references to Jon suggests there's something in there relating to Jon's parentage, possibly giving his name. Figuring out what that name could be is deduction. Still not fan fiction.   

Edited by ErasmusF

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Jon wasn't named Jon by Rhaegar or Lyanna. Look through the SSM:

 

 

Not to forget that according to the show, Jon Snow is dead. He's not coming back. Which leads me to believe when he does come back, it will be as a different person with a different name.  

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I always thought it would be Aemon Targaryen, for the simple reason that in one of the Jon POV's he thinks "I am not Aemon Targaryen"

 

:agree:

 

This or DAERON Targaryen who was his hero. Daeron I - who conquered Dorne (for a year) by war. (= chilhood ideal king) And Daeron II who "conquered" Dorne by marriage. (adulthood ideal king)

 

So:
1. Aemon.
2. Daeron.

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The etymology of the name "John" or "Jon", relates very closely to the idea of King, or Lord.  The original Hebrew name Johannan (Jonathan) is composed of two parts, the first part Joh is a truncated form of YHWH/YHVH, the incomplete name of God representing each of the four elements, and adding the fifth element of spirit, or the hebrew mother letter Shin (the letter itself shaped as a flame symbolizing spiritual fire), you complete the name, transmuting it into something material and comprehendible by humans (humans symbolized by the number 5) - YHSHVH, or Jehovah (it makes a lil less sense because we are trying to turn hebrew sounds into english here).   The second part of Johannan (hanan) means gracious.  

 

Sooo by GRRM using the name Jon, to me he is indicating that he is not only a King or Lord, but once the Fire (shin) is added to the Snow, likely during his resurrection, or perhaps just the reveal that he is not only Snow but part fire/targ, he will become something of a human-god (azor azai). Maybe unlikely GRRM thought so in depth about the hebrew and particularly the addition of fire completing the name of God, but its possible.  

 

Similarly, Jon Connington = Jon Con, a con and a false king - at least representing the false king in that he is his guardian.

 

I am actually very in a discussion as to why GRRM has chosen certain names for certain places and characters, and if anybody could point me to a thread where people provide their own insight into this I would be most appreciative (=

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