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What you don't like about ASoIaF


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On 8/28/2015 at 11:05 AM, LionoftheWest said:

The growing presence of magic in the series. :( GRRM should have included less of it in the story.

Whaaa? You want less magic in a fantasy story with fighting dragons? Most of the magic is either in people's heads or is limited to still-to-be-seen prophecies.

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15 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Whaaa? You want less magic in a fantasy story with fighting dragons? Most of the magic is either in people's heads or is limited to still-to-be-seen prophecies.

I have to disagree. The Others, the rising tide of zombies on both sides of the Wall, dragons, warlocks, warging, Faceless Men etc. are not limited to being in people's head.

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11 minutes ago, Belomor said:

Dothraki are cartoonishly primitive. Free Cities (except Braavos) customs are also cartoonishly evil to the point where it becomes stupid. 

I think you are talking about Slaver's Bay. The free cities are just fine.

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2 hours ago, LionoftheWest said:

I have to disagree. The Others, the rising tide of zombies on both sides of the Wall, dragons, warlocks, warging, Faceless Men etc. are not limited to being in people's head.

I guess I don't see the Others as magic, more like a race unto themselves and the rising tide of zombies could be magic if magic is just a manipulation of objects. If so, that is a power limited to and controlled by them.

Warging I don't think is magic for the same type of reason in addition to it not being something you have to craft or spend time doing ritualistic naked dancing in the woods. Clearly I have tried that last part but quickly realized I just had too much to drink. Warging, skinchanging and greenseeing never came or went with the birth of dragons. It is something that is born in to people (or mulch on the case of Bloodraven).

I dunno about the Faceless Men. Is that magic??? I guess I can agree with this one because they are a religion (cult) and do have ritualistic practices and how else do you explain waving your hand across your face to  change your features?

Part of what I mentioned is that most of the "real magic" has only just been awakened and it still yet to be seen. We, the readers, know of it popping up in different locations, but it has not really had a Planetos-wide effect... yet.

Plus, I love me some magic (and dancing drunk in the woods too) so I guess I don't think it has reached "too much" just yet. :cheers:

Edited to add: Most of the prophecies are self-fulfilling and cannot be attributed to magic. The person giving the prophecies may have real magic powers in other cases, but what we have seen so far are either visions of what just happened, is happening or may happen, or may be answers given just to mentally torture spoiled brat children. It is the may happen part that is still to be determined... Cersei, I'm lookin' at you girl! I guess it is the magic of paranoia.

Edited a second time to add: This is one thing I don't like so much about this series. Too many prophecies. It gets a little tiresome to keep track of them all, who said them and the hidden meanings behind them. 

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24 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I guess I don't see the Others as magic, more like a race unto themselves and the rising tide of zombies could be magic if magic is just a manipulation of objects. If so, that is a power limited to and controlled by them.

I used to think this way as well, the Others as a race, but the result of Sam killing Ser Puddles really makes me question that. If they can't be killed by ordinary means (I know we don't know that yet) but only by dragonsteel (valyrian?) or obsidian  and then they melt and don't leave physical remains I find it hard to believe they aren't some sort of magical construct.

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8 minutes ago, RobOsevens said:

I used to think this way as well, the Others as a race, but the result of Sam killing Ser Puddles really makes me question that. If they can't be killed by ordinary means (I know we don't know that yet) but only by dragonsteel (valyrian?) or obsidian  and then they melt and don't leave physical remains I find it hard to believe they aren't some sort of magical construct.

I don't want to go tooo off topic here, but isn't that kinda the same as if, say, aliens were to land and the humans found out that blaring the song "Indian Love Call" would kill them and they explode in to puddles of goo. If they are not carbon-based lifeforms then I would expect them to react differently to different materials. I still feel they are a race unto themselves until I see something else. But I am fully aware and accepting of the "We will have to wait and see" idea. Nothing is known until the last page of ADOS... sooner or later.

And to stay on topic. I hate, really, reaallly hate, the overuse of butter. It literally makes me gag everytime I read about anything swimming on butter, or dripping in butter, or butter ran down someone's g-damn chin. :ack:

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19 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

And to stay on topic. I hate, really, reaallly hate, the overuse of butter. It literally makes me gag everytime I read about anything swimming on butter, or dripping in butter, or butter ran down someone's g-damn chin. :ack:

I don't mind the butter, but I hate all that butter and grease running down people's chins. All these highborn lords and ladies need to be sent to table manners boot camp ASAP.

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On 2 February 2016 at 0:06 AM, The Fattest Leech said:

Whaaa? You want less magic in a fantasy story with fighting dragons? Most of the magic is either in people's heads or is limited to still-to-be-seen prophecies.

I don't understand the criticism on Magic. From the very first chapter, it clear this is a series is most definitely a fantasy series, and one which will make use of magic. I just feel like, if you don't want to read a series involving fantasy elements and magic, why did you read past the first chapter? Sure, I get people have preferences, but it's clear what your getting into from the start...

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Structure, pacing and bloat in Feast and Dance. Martin's rationale for splitting up the books geograpically was so that we wouldn't get "half the story for all the characters", yet that is exactly what we got. Character development and world building is great but shouldn't come at the expense of plot progression. Martin struck a good balance between the three in the first three books. Not so in the last two.

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For me the worst thing is the wait for TWoW. I blame the cliffhangers from ADwD for that.

I have a feeling that after TWoW the wait for ADoS won't be as bad. At least a lot of characters will be killed off in TWoW and we can make better assumptions about what will happen in the endgame.

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18 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I don't want to go tooo off topic here, but isn't that kinda the same as if, say, aliens were to land and the humans found out that blaring the song "Indian Love Call" would kill them and they explode in to puddles of goo. If they are not carbon-based lifeforms then I would expect them to react differently to different materials. I still feel they are a race unto themselves until I see something else. But I am fully aware and accepting of the "We will have to wait and see" idea. Nothing is known until the last page of ADOS... sooner or later.

100% agree, I am always confused when I see people complain about the fantasy elements

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19 hours ago, Spookykid said:

to much skinchanging, warging, face changing, glamours, anyone could be anyone else or know anything or everything

Not to mention anyone could be a secret Targ, twin, swapped at birth.

And the serpentine steps are way too serpentine. (but these are trivial annoyances, not real put-me-off-the-whole-thing hates)

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I would have wished that he was able to maintain control of his story and stay on track after aSoS, and/or that he had an editor willing or able to help him regain it. He's been alternately floundering and grinding for years. It has to be very unpleasant for him, and it certainly doesn't make for the best reading.

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On 2/2/2016 at 1:21 PM, Spookykid said:

to much skinchanging, warging, face changing, glamours, anyone could be anyone else or know anything or everything

I admit, he does overdo a lot of elements until it feels like he's bashing you over the head with certain plot elements and themes (Revenge is bad! Identity issues! Words are wind!) but...

I'm betting that we'll learn someone is warg from hundreds to thousands of years ago. That'd be better than any hidden Targ any day.

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