What you don't like about ASoIaF

[kimim]

9 minutes ago, Ser Hyle said:

After a chronological re-read, I came to the realization that AFFC is my favourite volume from a reading enjoyment perspective. Should I schedule myself a brain MRI?

Nope. It's all totally subjective

[Good Guy Garlan]

On 8/30/2015 at 8:46 PM, Tyrell_like_Squirrel said:

 

Honestly, this thread has been one of the cleanest I've seen. But man oh man, do people on these threads like to complain about the books. I'm not saying there can't be critique. But most complaints I read are superficial and weak, in my opinion. 

 

I've seen a lot of "bitching" about this series, and I wonder whether anybody actually enjoys ASOIAF. I guess I'm of the opinion that if you make threads complaining about why you don't like a series, I wouldn't consider you a big fan of the series. Maybe it's something you casually enjoy. Why create a profile on a forum dedicated to ASOIAF, if you're just not that into it?

 

Just my frustrations. My least favorite part of aSoIaF is the fandom.

 

1 hour ago, Tom Sevenstreams said:

Thread title should be: List of people who will never be happy and will complain about anything.

This is the best series written in a Loooooong time, by an author who puts his blood sweat and tears into making it the best he can absolutely do, who is ashamed that he cannot get them out faster, and you all complain.  

Ingrates.

I swear to God, the day I see one of these threads without comments like these is the day I'll sell all of my possessions and become a monk in the Holy Mountain. 

But it's funny, if nothing else. "Blood, sweat and tears?" Really? Then why is he letting other people finish his story and why am I reading his excuses instead of his book? But by any means, keep keep clutching your pearls every time someone dares to say the series isn't flawless or perfect or the best work of art of the 21 century and all the centuries before. Keep swallowing whole whatever George puts out, shutting off your brain and critical thinking skills. Keep being "big fans", a word that comes from "fanatic" and denotes an unhealthy worshipping of someone. In short, keep being honorary members of the Westboro Baptist Church. There's more blood, sweat and tears when I'm taking a big dump, honestly. 

But to answer the OP's question, it's real simple. What I don't like about the series is the last two incomplete novels that basically came along to ruin what used to be a really good series. 

[CryptofCthulhu]

2 hours ago, Tom Sevenstreams said:

Thread title should be: List of people who will never be happy and will complain about anything.

This is the best series written in a Loooooong time, by an author who puts his blood sweat and tears into making it the best he can absolutely do, who is ashamed that he cannot get them out faster, and you all complain.  

Ingrates.

As opposed to people that think there is something that can be objectively called "perfect"?

[Isobel Harper]

1 hour ago, Ser Hyle said:

After a chronological re-read, I came to the realization that AFFC is my favourite volume from a reading enjoyment perspective. Should I schedule myself a brain MRI?

Currently doing a re-read of some AFfC chapters (was going to do a Cersei chapter re-read, then read Jaime's AFfC chapter, then Brienne's, then Sansa's...)

I'm really enjoying it.  AFfC definitely gets better during re-reads.

[The Mountain That Flies]

On the whole the only critique I can give to the series is that the fourth and fifth book are very different in pacing, style, and what seems to be their place within the larger narrative. Books one through three are not only strong pieces of the whole, each one has a clear narrative structure within it that has a very good build up and climax. These are absent entirely from many of the character arcs in DWD, and are unevenly distributed in AFFC.

Mixing things up a bit is great, but only when the purpose of said mixing is clear. In this case, those changes combined with the delays both books underwent to form something bothersome, though I freely acknowledge when the series is completed their purpose and value may be more clear.

[dornishdame]

1 hour ago, Isobel Harper said:

Currently doing a re-read of some AFfC chapters (was going to do a Cersei chapter re-read, then read Jaime's AFfC chapter, then Brienne's, then Sansa's...)

I'm really enjoying it.  AFfC definitely gets better during re-reads.

I would have to agree with this. Feast is a book that after the first time I completed it, I was disappointed for various reasons. Mostly, I think, because it took me a few reads to get into the Ironborn story. But when I go back now, and re-read the series, I find so much in Feast to enjoy. Jaime's redemptive arc, which started in Storm, really gets underway; Cersei showing that she is nowhere near as politically astute as we thought she was without her POV (though I do think Joffrey's death sent her off the path of sanity a bit); Septon Meribald and the Elder Brother on the casualties of war; Darkstar and the realization that the Martells' desire for revenge did not die with Oberyn any more than it did with Elia; Sansa and Arya on the path to losing their Stark identity......

[TheMightyKC]

The Seven are clearly a force of good and a Christian analog, yet so few characters show them the respect they deserve.  One more instance of catering to an immoral liberal audience.  I hope in the last couple of volumes George (author) embraces his Faith and has the Sparrow leader guy take control of the world and lead it into good, but I feel like the good will probably all disappear in the final battle.  Sigh.

[RobOsevens]

15 minutes ago, TheMightyKC said:

The Seven are clearly a force of good and a Christian analog, yet so few characters show them the respect they deserve.  One more instance of catering to an immoral liberal audience.  I hope in the last couple of volumes George (author) embraces his Faith and has the Sparrow leader guy take control of the world and lead it into good, but I feel like the good will probably all disappear in the final battle.  Sigh.

I think the characters not embracing the Faith is more about George's personal views and he would find it hard to write about devout characters, which is also why we are seeing fanatics rise up now with the new HS and over in Essos

[TheMightyKC]

1 minute ago, RobOsevens said:

I think the characters not embracing the Faith is more about George's personal views and he would find it hard to write about devout characters, which is also why we are seeing fanatics rise up now with the new HS and over in Essos

I think everyone is starting to come around too the world just had to go through some growing pains lol.

[Good Guy Garlan]

21 minutes ago, TheMightyKC said:

The Seven are clearly a force of good and a Christian analog, yet so few characters show them the respect they deserve.  One more instance of catering to an immoral liberal audience.  I hope in the last couple of volumes George (author) embraces his Faith and has the Sparrow leader guy take control of the world and lead it into good, but I feel like the good will probably all disappear in the final battle.  Sigh.

A++ trolling. Slow clap. 

[Sandcat]

The fact that the tv-series were made before the books are even done.

[RobOsevens]

2 minutes ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

A++ trolling. Slow clap. 

I'm beginning to agree with you haha over on the JonCon cutting his arm off thread I'm having a similar convo with Mighty KC

[Tyrell_like_Squirrel]

On 1/25/2016 at 0:25 PM, Good Guy Garlan said:

 

I swear to God, the day I see one of these threads without comments like these is the day I'll sell all of my possessions and become a monk in the Holy Mountain. 

But it's funny, if nothing else. "Blood, sweat and tears?" Really? Then why is he letting other people finish his story and why am I reading his excuses instead of his book? But by any means, keep keep clutching your pearls every time someone dares to say the series isn't flawless or perfect or the best work of art of the 21 century and all the centuries before. Keep swallowing whole whatever George puts out, shutting off your brain and critical thinking skills. Keep being "big fans", a word that comes from "fanatic" and denotes an unhealthy worshipping of someone. In short, keep being honorary members of the Westboro Baptist Church. There's more blood, sweat and tears when I'm taking a big dump, honestly. 

But to answer the OP's question, it's real simple. What I don't like about the series is the last two incomplete novels that basically came along to ruin what used to be a really good series. 

Do you bite your thumb at us, sir? 

I have to completely disagree with your assessment that the last two novels ruined the series. I'm of the opinion that Feast/Dance is some of Martin's most mature and thought provoking work. True, I didn't wait 11 years for two halves of essentially one book, but I wouldn't call them incomplete.

Ultimately it just sounds like you and your ilk aren't happy with Martin any more, and I can respect that. I love this series probably more then any other "geeky fan thing" and I feel like the work speaks for itself. If you don't like it, or if you feel like its not what you wanted, that's perfectly fine.

What bothers me, and what my original quote was getting at, is that I'm tired of seeing worn out and disillusioned fans crap all over something that is still very fresh and enjoyable for me. You are under no obligation to read anything that Martin puts out, much less create a profile on a fandom website and post threads about why you hate it. 

I think healthy critique is fine, but that's rarely what goes on in these forums. Usually its speculation about fan-theories, favorite character polls, and sometimes reexamination of certain aspects of the series. Keeping in mind that none of ASOIAF is real life and that all of this is just pointless (albeit fun) exercises in active fandom participation, I fail to see how complaining about how "reading his excuses instead of his book" accomplishes anything. It isn't really fun, although I suppose it might be a catharsis for you. It's not so much a critique as a litany of entitled drivel that I see over and over and over.

Go read something that gives you joy and inspires you, rant about theories on that, get excited and have fun. I feel like that would be a better use of your time. Just sayin'

[Lord Greenhood]

On 2015-08-29 at 2:58 PM, brranstaark said:

The names are sometimes hard to pronounce.

Omg Hahahahhaha I'm sry, I just imagined you saying it like a 6 year old.

[Good Guy Garlan]

1 hour ago, Tyrell_like_Squirrel said:

Do you bite your thumb at us, sir? 

I have to completely disagree with your assessment that the last two novels ruined the series. I'm of the opinion that Feast/Dance is some of Martin's most mature and thought provoking work. True, I didn't wait 11 years for two halves of essentially one book, but I wouldn't call them incomplete.

Ultimately it just sounds like you and your ilk aren't happy with Martin any more, and I can respect that. I love this series probably more then any other "geeky fan thing" and I feel like the work speaks for itself. If you don't like it, or if you feel like its not what you wanted, that's perfectly fine.

What bothers me, and what my original quote was getting at, is that I'm tired of seeing worn out and disillusioned fans crap all over something that is still very fresh and enjoyable for me. You are under no obligation to read anything that Martin puts out, much less create a profile on a fandom website and post threads about why you hate it. 

I think healthy critique is fine, but that's rarely what goes on in these forums. Usually its speculation about fan-theories, favorite character polls, and sometimes reexamination of certain aspects of the series. Keeping in mind that none of ASOIAF is real life and that all of this is just pointless (albeit fun) exercises in active fandom participation, I fail to see how complaining about how "reading his excuses instead of his book" accomplishes anything. It isn't really fun, although I suppose it might be a catharsis for you. It's not so much a critique as a litany of entitled drivel that I see over and over and over.

Go read something that gives you joy and inspires you, rant about theories on that, get excited and have fun. I feel like that would be a better use of your time. Just sayin'

First off, I don't *hate* the books, not even the last two. Otherwise I wouldn't be here at all, much less with +8000 posts and the 2000 from my previous account that got lost in the void (but who's counting?). So clearly there's enough for me to enjoy even in Feast and Dance to be here typing this. Not that I have to justify my "fandom" level (such lows we hit sometimes) but apparently that's what you wanted. 

So with that out of the way, allow me to reply:

You say you're tired of seeing disillusioned fans complain and of them repeating their litany over and over. 

Okay, first question: how can you be tired of something that never happens? Every single time anyone dares to criticize the books in even the slightest way, people like you come out of the woodwork in a panic and gang up on them to shut them up, because you only like to hear the tune you like.

Which leads me to my second question: do you know what the "Internet" is? Because I feel that you haven't quite grasped the concept of different people having different ideas and not necessarily sharing your opinions. 

Then, you talk a great deal about fandom, but I don't think you understand what it is either. See, the thing is that every single fan's experience with the books is different. You may be happy chanting "These books are the best books of all time, la la la!" all day, like to discuss the books beyond "Mance is Rhaegar", like you would any other piece of literature. 

So you say that healthy critique is fine to you, but that's bullshit. People like you don't like any critique of the books, so no critique is healthy to you. Maybe the only critique you'd allow would be if after writing 10 paragraphs about how great the books are I say, "Well, okay, there's one thing I don't like about the books: I think the food descriptions are too short!". So don't even try to play that card because I've been in this forum long enough to know that your ilk freak out and try to derail or shut down any attempt at "healthy" criticism, innocuous though it may be. 

I hope I don't have to explain to you how your actions constitute a most virulent attempt at censoring other people's opinions you don't agree with. But allow me to replicate in kind: you say it's annoying and tiring when people criticize the books? Man, it's not even half as annoying as people shutting down the part of their brains in charge of critical thinking and acting like mindless drones with a hive mind inside an echo chamber, and what's worse, trying to shut up the people with opinions of their own. 

From my own experience, I can tell you that in almost four years in this forum (damn, where did my life go?) I've opened exactly one thread about things I'd change in Feast or some such, and it was promptly besieged by you people trying to shut it down and insulting everyone with your immaturity and insecurities. In fact, I bet my left ball that I have created significantly more posts than you about theories and crackpots and discussions (damn, where did my life go, seriously?) So who's the fan now, big guy? See, my geek dick is bigger than yours, since you want to measure, I guess. 

But if you're gonna read at least a line of this post, I'd like it to be this one: 

If you are so tired of seeing us ungrateful and entitled bastards being mean to George (or as grown ups call it, "voicing opinions"), then please, for the love of the books you worship, don't come to the very, very few threads where we can criticize the books and act like an immature, whiny, insecure sycophant? That's not much to ask, now, is it? 

 

 

[The Great and Mighty Poo]

Bitchy fans

[Ruhail]

The really long waits between each book

[khal drogon]

Sex scenes.

[WSmith84]

You know, after rereading Feast and Dance, I realised that I could deal with most of the issues that those books have if they gave us some resolutions. They have a few, but most of the character and story archs end without resolving anything. There's too much of 'next time, on ASOIAF' and too little actual payoff. I think Feast and Dance would have been much better received if, for example, the battles of ice and fire were included. Obviously, this would have required some trimming of the earlier stuff, but still.

And I'm with Good Guy Garlan here; we should be perfectly free to criticise the books without having our opinions shouted down.

[Trigger Warning]

On 25/01/2016 at 3:33 PM, Tom Sevenstreams said:

Thread title should be: List of people who will never be happy and will complain about anything.

This is the best series written in a Loooooong time, by an author who puts his blood sweat and tears into making it the best he can absolutely do, who is ashamed that he cannot get them out faster, and you all complain.  

Ingrates.