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The Riverlands Web V.7


Booknerd2

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14 hours ago, Booknerd2 said:

So unfortunately, I took was forced by fate and being busy a long hiatus from the threads. There was also a little block involved too. Thank you Wizz, and the rest of the posters for getting me back on track with some really great posts. And I have to say too that parts of the show brought up major items, topics, issues, etc. to ponder again. 

Let me start Wizz with your first post in a recent bunch of posts. And some of what I have to say might seem familiar to what I've shared with you already.

So I started small. I sometimes need to go off and generalize and do like a personal generalized brainstorming session/sessions. I have been trying to think of any occasion in the series where I can clearly remember wind, and trying to let all you wrote regarding that to seep in. And I am nowhere near rereading parts (too many) pertaining to the many points that have been made. I did spend some time looking up "wind" in general to get a warmup going. I checked out cultural symbolism of wind in many cultures as a starting point. In general, I am going to just dive in the best I can. I never entertained it. Too occupied with the other events, mysteries, and personal dramas going on in a massive large scale series. My explanation of why will follow shortly. This why the RW is such an effective group effort. There is just some stuff that if its not my "thing," an area that struck a chord, or I can't make headway or even offer any kind of halfway decent comment for whatever reason, I just won't. Until something sort of hits. Half the time I can't comment right away on most of the stuff you or some others write because it takes me forever to let marinate. Having the busies doesn't help. When there is stuff that just socked me in the face and I never pondered, I become at a loss for words. Oh, but give me a prompt for Stranger, Big Nyms, Arya, the Hound, Gendry and other fav people or topics…I can't shut up. Lol. Yes, Big Nyms and Stranger are people to me. Yup.

I will put this next part in spoilers just in case because it occurs later.

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I think in Mercy for the write up I did on RW, I know I pulled apart the meaning or what the mentions of fog struck in me. I would think being stuck in a fog also connotes a lack of wind. And yeah, right now a lost and not at full force Arya, has personally, emotionally, regarding identity, and psychologically has gotten the "wind knocked out of her." All the unfortunate Starks have. The wind has halted and they are down and out. I'm totally with you in thinking there is something to "divine winds"(the old gods and more maybe) and the powers of the Starks, whatever exactly it all may be. Really, even in the 6th book title, "Winter" denotes the Starks and their wolf/direwolf avatar which is them, a part of them; equates with being a Stark. So we get winds and Stark/wolves pretty much pointed out to us, I would think. 

And thank you again, because seriously a whole world of thought has been opened here.  I really left the 6th book title off my radar as something to ponder -  foolishly. I was in all honesty thinking: Uh, ok, duh. It just means winds as force, that the Stark rebound/comeback is near and it sets up in book 6. They will get some kind of momentum again. Their fortunes will turn for the better and they have a fighting chance again. I thought the title was great because it helped to know that after being kicked around for five books we get to see them rise again.

Also, was there not a sort of wind shout out on the show?

Hey Bookie!  :)  I like your thoughts regards the title of the next book, but you're right, this certainly does put a new and windy angle on things.  Add the fact that GRRM was insistent on keeping the prolific use of the phrase 'words are wind' in the books even though his editor said he should cut that number down considerably.     

About the wind........... Over in that thread, we think the wind has a presence in it.  Namely the old gods/BR, but also Bran later on in the books after his last chapter in ADWD.  Some of the text surrounding this repeats throughout the books, but only in the places where the old gods still have power.  Places such as north of the Wall - the Wall itself - Winterfell - godswoods - High Heart etc....  They have to have some way 'in' we think.

As for that text I mentioned, George personifies the wind and often gives it human traits.  Using words such as 'sigh/sighed' or 'whispered' giving it a voice. [Osha also tells us about the wind making the leaves rustle and that that is the old gods talking back to Bran.]  Sometimes it 'pushes' or sometimes it is 'tugging' or 'pulling' on peoples cloaks/hoods.  Other times it 'gusts' or 'swirls' in and shows an interest in a character, as it did with the GoHH in my posts above.  It does this with Mel a lot at the Wall as well as Jon.

Then there are subtle old gods/BR clues in the text.  Stuff like the wind 'whispering through trees and making a cloak seem half alive'.  BR is half alive and whispers through trees.  Also there is an example where the wind blows the snow and temporarily makes people 'half blind and that it cuts like a knife' BR is half blind because of a knife.  Etc etc........ you get what I mean. 

Also the howling wind relating to the wolves is something we look for.  In my posts above we get a direct link between the two as the wolves 'train' the wind in the art of howling.  This is a good example, but there is also one in the AGOT prologue as if to set up these techniques.

There is more, but thought I would try and clarify a couple of things regards the wind.  Hope this helped a bit.  I will post my AGOT prologue analysis here as well, as I think there are some clues in there similar to what I'm talking about.  That may help as well, and I think it's a different take on that chapter to what you find elsewhere.  :D

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Here's the AGOT prologue, hopefully this helps a bit as well.  :)

This is inspired by Evita and some of the techniques she has shown throughout her OP, namely rustling trees, the wind, and giving it that animalistic/humanistic presence.  Plus a couple of other cool possibilities.

I reread the prologue of AGOT and some stuff jumped out at me, so made some notes.  Here’s my breakdown of the chapter concentrating on the wind, this is the first thing any Asoiaf fan read back in 1996.

The first mention of the wind was instantly familiar.

A cold wind was blowing out of the north, and made the trees rustle like living things.  All day, Will had felt as though something were watching him…….

‘’You have a chill?’’ Royce asked

‘’The wind, m’lord.’’

The wind is out of the north again, this term is used regularly.  But also it makes the trees rustle like living things, with what we now know, looking back this is a very cool line.  Will felt like they were being watched, the insinuation in this chapter is that it’s probably the Others that have been watching them.  But I wouldn’t rule out an entity in the wind either.  I feel there may be a separation of the cold wind and the cold itself the Others bring in this same chapter.

[Gared] ‘’Everyone talks about snows forty foot deep, and how the ice wind comes 'howling' out of the north, but the real enemy is the cold.’’                

A couple of paragraphs later.

Somewhere off in the wood a wolf 'howled'.

This is the first time the wind is given an animalistic trait as it comes howling out the north.  Then as if to confirm he may be using this technique, George gives us the wolf howl almost right away.  Also if you think of the wind as being inhabited or its own entity, then a closer look at the end of the sentence basically says………. ‘The personified wind is one thing but the cold is another entirely’ the real enemy in fact.  Of course the wind is cold especially beyond the wall, and there’s a possible separation later as this comes up again at the end of the chapter, but here’s some more wind.

A cold wind 'whispered' through the trees.  His [Royce’s] great sable cloak stirred behind 'like something half alive.'

Will could feel it.  Four years in the Nights Watch and he had never been so afraid. What was it?

‘’Wind.  Trees rustling.  A wolf.  Which sound is it that unmans you so Gared?’’

Another personification of the wind as it 'whispers through the trees', again this is an awesome sentence, it’s probably BR in the wind at this point and he does indeed whisper through trees.  And it plays with Royce’s cloak which becomes like something half alive, this is the second time that George has the wind make things come alive/half alive in the chapter.  And the half alive bit on top of the whispering through trees certainly sounds like BR to me.

Then as if to spell it out George basically lists all the things I noticed about this chapter in one foul swoop.  Wind.  Trees rustling.  And a wolf.  Wallop! :P  I think this was an extremely early set up for the wind technique, the AGOT prologue at that, awesome!  The wind continues and is mentioned another four times, I will list them sequentially.

He stood there beside the sentinel, longsword in hand, his cloak billowing behind him as the wind came up, outlined nobly against the stars for all to see.

[Will on climbing]  There was no use to argue.  The wind was moving.  It cut right through him.

Branches stirred gently in the wind, scratching at one another with wooden fingers.

He threw the long sable cloak back over his shoulders, to free his arms for battle, and took his sword in both hands.  The wind had stopped.  It was very cold.

So more cloak play, and the wooden fingers scratching at one another is cool.  But not quite as much descriptive text, I have noticed this when posting about Jon’s chapters.  Perhaps once an early presence has been set up, there are some more subtle text around the wind to avoid repeating the phrases too much.

Then the possible separation of the cold wind and the cold itself.  The last two sentences are interesting.  

‘The wind had stopped and It was very cold’ placed against the earlier notion that ‘The ice wind comes howling out of the north, but the real enemy is the cold’  

The wind stopped and was not seen again as soon as the Others [and their cold] actually turn up to kill Waymar.  It’s as if the wind had seen enough, plus the real enemy has just turned up!

In conclusion

With all that Evita has shown in her OP and subsequent posts, plus all I’ve picked up off of her around this subject, this chapter seemed packed full of evidence.  This seems like the original set up for this whole technique.  Perhaps showing us that this is in fact definitely happening and has been happening since the very first chapter anyone read back in 1996.

Trees turning into living things, cloaks looking half alive, the north wind howling and whispering [through trees no less] rustling trees, the wolf, the wind leaving when the real enemy turn up, Georges Wind.  Trees rustling.  A wolf hint etc…………….  This is very cool, and surprisingly early in the piece.

Finally, there is a similar flow to this technique regards the wind to what I saw when breaking down Jon’s ADWD chapters.  A presence may be hinted at early then played with throughout the rest of said chapter.  Anyway, this being as early as it is, thought it well worth posting.  :D

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18 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

Wizz, I missed that you had posted something new, I need to catch up! And so good to see Bookie again! :)

Hey Le Cygne :)  I was thinking of you when doing this research actually.  I remember we had a brief conversation about the Beric and BR parallels and maybe the GoHH having the old gods whisper in her sleep etc......

Well this line of enquiry was perfect for me to analyse in the Bran's growing powers thread, so here it is.  I know there are some new things in here, influenced by the other fine thread.  So I hope that I have explained everything well enough.  I would be interested to hear your thoughts.  :D 

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7 hours ago, Wizz-The-Smith said:

Hey Bookie!  :)  I like your thoughts regards the title of the next book, but you're right, this certainly does put a new and windy angle on things.  Add the fact that GRRM was insistent on keeping the prolific use of the phrase 'words are wind' in the books even though his editor said he should cut that number down considerably.     

About the wind........... Over in that thread, we think the wind has a presence in it.  Namely the old gods/BR, but also Bran later on in the books after his last chapter in ADWD.  Some of the text surrounding this repeats throughout the books, but only in the places where the old gods still have power.  Places such as north of the Wall - the Wall itself - Winterfell - godswoods - High Heart etc....  They have to have some way 'in' we think.

As for that text I mentioned, George personifies the wind and often gives it human traits.  Using words such as 'sigh/sighed' or 'whispered' giving it a voice. [Osha also tells us about the wind making the leaves rustle and that that is the old gods talking back to Bran.]  Sometimes it 'pushes' or sometimes it is 'tugging' or 'pulling' on peoples cloaks/hoods.  Other times it 'gusts' or 'swirls' in and shows an interest in a character, as it did with the GoHH in my posts above.  It does this with Mel a lot at the Wall as well as Jon.

Then there are subtle old gods/BR clues in the text.  Stuff like the wind 'whispering through trees and making a cloak seem half alive'.  BR is half alive and whispers through trees.  Also there is an example where the wind blows the snow and temporarily makes people 'half blind and that it cuts like a knife' BR is half blind because of a knife.  Etc etc........ you get what I mean. 

Also the howling wind relating to the wolves is something we look for.  In my posts above we get a direct link between the two as the wolves 'train' the wind in the art of howling.  This is a good example, but there is also one in the AGOT prologue as if to set up these techniques.

There is more, but thought I would try and clarify a couple of things regards the wind.  Hope this helped a bit.  I will post my AGOT prologue analysis here as well, as I think there are some clues in there similar to what I'm talking about.  That may help as well, and I think it's a different take on that chapter to what you find elsewhere.  :D

Amazing how many times the word "wind" or variations appear with words, descriptions, etc. either associated with Starks or "Starkness/being a Stark" and even used in their scenes. Wind is totally personified countless times. To have a lot of it here out front maximizes the effect even further. Thank you.

Spoiler

Totally reminds me of the same being done in Mercy with Arya and fog. The fog is literally there, describes her state of mind, what's been happening to her long term, her present situation and state of being, etc.

And a great point about Osha. I also can't count the amount of times her more cryptic remarks especially towards the Stark boys drove me up a wall. I'm like: Out with it! Now! That it lingers from her: I know, that you know, that I know, stuff you don't know… Towards them, sometimes other characters, and definitely for readers. 

It's like anytime LF or Varys open their mouths. When you want to yell out to imaginary characters not to believe their crap. And they both go on a condescending, falsely polite, verbal roll and I slap my forehead in frustration for whoever they are in the room with. That is not what you really mean, or it is, but its still not good even if it sounds that way, but it really means either a short term lull until the long term stab in the back, and I think I'm not being played either because I'm not in front of you, but I am? You both are fooling them and probably me too. Still don't know what the hell they're up to, or what exactly makes them tick.

Back to Osha. When it reached that point where I knew she was not exactly an earthy flower child nature girl interpreting the outdoors and amateur zoologist, nor was she trying out to become the next Old Nan and tell cute anecdotes. The more she opened her mouth the more apparent it became that she knows stuff. Uh, that we don't.

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Hey Bookie.  :)  Thanks on the wind stuff, it's still work in progress but we have found quite a lot of text to back our ideas.  You're right, when placed in one post it really lays it out in front of you, and there's a lot more.  And yes, Osha is one of those characters we should listen too, especially regards the wind and the rustling leaves.

I like that you picked up on the mist in Braavos as well.  I won't post any spoilers for the Mercy chapter, but suffice to say that the mist has already given us certain subtle clues in Braavos.  At one point the mist is so thick that Arya thinks 'half the city will half blind tonight',  Hmmm, half blind reference again certainly makes you think of BR.  And there is a bridge of a thousand painted eyes [paraphrasing] which again screams BR.  Anyway, nice catch.  :D

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2 hours ago, Wizz-The-Smith said:

Snip.

I put it all under spoiler just in case.

 

 

Spoiler

 

And I have to read Mercy again with a new "pair of eyes" There's a BR reference for you too.:D

With the eyes and any of that, I was too emotionally engrossed in the 50 other million clues in that awesome chapter and never thought of that avenue. First, I celebrated the shout out to Big Nyms in that chapter. ;)

Then it was on to WHOOOAAAHHH...WOLF PACK!:grouphug:

Then I lost it over Lommy and what that means. And marveled about how subtly genius it is to give us a good idea what's ticking inside her with such delicate balance. It couldn't be any other person or event. It could have ranged from a tad hint to blatantly obvious, depending. Any connect to Gendry or Hot Pie was too much. This was so much more well done. It means Gendry and Hot Pie anyway. Just like how subtly we see Gendry acting "off" and other tip offs in the book 4 cameo. Just like Stranger in the QI scene. Masterful; and I talk about them all the time, the chapters, because they're wonderful. A testament to "it goes without saying." Of all the things that happened in that chapter when they get taken: Gendry getting kicked in the side, the helm taken, him taken, Arya trying to convince the boys to help her get Gendry back, Hot Pie scared to death and stepping up and agreeing, and all of them getting taken, and poor Lommy. Lommy was very moving, but... not what I expected a long time ago to be "the thing" that pings. What comes up when the time comes for the author to show us that after taking Arya across seas, to new places and new adventures; this is it. Emotions can be stirred within her still; she has never forgotten. Even after Lommy bitched and complained for miles and miles.

No matter what happened to her and how far away she is. When leaving the past and changing identity had been her arc for countless chapters and books before that scene. One thing…one reminder thrown in her face, and she is back. Because if that…the Lommy thing bothers her, when she is given free will and a choice to embrace this new life and forgot everything even a pain in the ass snot that really did nothing for her, she was a hell of a lot closer to Gendry and Hot Pie, she still avenges Lommy, in her way and on her terms, and takes a helluva risk too.

So we see that Gendry is pissed at the Orphanage, Hot Pie is probably miserable and out of place baking, ( I am going with the feels of the show how they interpreted Hot Pie where we see him again and he hasn't forgotten Arya either, meaning I think THAT did't come out of thin air) and she is dealing with stuff very far away too as well apparently. And remembering. So those two chapters from different books are linked. And I did attack the chapter when they were taken on Rethinking Romance V.2 It took me three parts to really try to tackle stuff that came to mind, and I know damn well that I STILL missed stuff. You definitely brought that fact home to me.

So with all that going on, that was enough. So was so many other references. I never even entertained any BR stuff.

I will go back as soon as I can and give it a read and comment when I can.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Two other things that struck regarding the posts.

1. When all examples are placed right out in front and together, it does make a helluva lot of sense that it is pointing in the direction of the title of book 6. 

2. I believe as others theorize too that there is most likely going to be Bran reaching out and establishing some sort of communication with some or all of his siblings and Jon. That can not drop out of nowhere, and it won't. It hasn't been. ( A good writer knows this, the author knows this, and we have all the fun reading each book and trying to piece it all together because stuff has been happening) when it occurs more dramatically and directly (meaning we literally see two siblings interact somehow and it is more vivid and/or tangible, and its not just a dream or whispers or less direct head on communication) in the next or last book.

This has been building from the very first page and over many pages up until they point we are at now. And the pace I love. From starting with subtle and less mentions to more and more and with (if one wishes to do the work in a very reader interactive and engaging series. And most of us game here.)  literary tools/techniques handed to us as we read to start piecing things together on our own without all being handed to us. I''ve seen the old "show not tell" used in the very best cases in this series, with too many examples to ever tackle and point out. Now we've seen many hints and even more clearer examples throughout the series, but just when you think you got a pretty good handle, readers still find more stuff. Its a testament to brilliant writing that a work(s) with mysteries and cliffhangers can keep unfolding and sustain for this long and keep resonating and perpetuating. Cause this series has some serious stamina.  I think you made a very good point too that if we all keep looking, there are like a ton more maybe most of us didn't catch at all right away. Basically that there are many more points that will make even more sense as time passes and of course when the next book comes out. And I agree all the words that repeat and everything is linked and I know there are damn well tons of BR references I needed pointed out to me that were harder to pick up on than perhaps others.

I can't believe, yet I can, the amount of work I will have to do go back and re-read the stuff you mentioned in a new light for me now. Lol.

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Hey Bookie.  :)  I like your point about Lommy, and how if Arya is reacting to his death, then Gendry should be higher on that list.  And btw, I can't believe how much stuff I missed, and still miss as well.  I have picked up on some literary techniques GRRM seems to be using, and then on re-read things jump out of the text.  But then someone points out something else, or another technique being used as well, in the same chapter etc.......

I think it was LML in one of his threads explained it best.  These books have multiple layers and multiple clues/techniques going on in every chapter, and almost every paragraph it seems sometimes.  It's almost impossible to pick up on them all at once, that's why these books are a work of genius.  And that's why it takes him so long to write them, the intricacies of the text are mind blowing.  Still, as you mention we're all having fun trying to understand them as best we can.  :P

You mentioned some of the BR references are harder to pick up than others.  I agree, but also there is the fact that we had to wait until we met him to really understand these clues.  Until we met him we didn't know to look for one-eyed/half blind things or whisper through trees and half alive references etc.......  I was very surprised when I re-read the AGOT prologue and saw all those clues in the wind, it seemed so early in the piece.  It seems some of these very subtle clues have been there all the time, and loads still to find.

BTW, about Bran reaching out to his siblings, I think he has already been watching Jon among others.  I've found some cool text around the wind at the Wall and Mormont's raven of course.  But we also think that Bran reaches out to Theon at Winterfell as well, it is the best example of Bran in the wind we have I think.  Evita found this one and used it in her OP, here's the text................... 

“Theon,” a voice seemed to whisper.

His head snapped up. “Who said that?” All he could see were the trees and the fog that covered them. The voice had been as faint as rustling leaves, as cold as hate. A god’s voice, or a ghost’s? How many died the day that he took Winterfell? How many more the day he lost it? The day that Theon Greyjoy died to be reborn as Reek. Reek, Reek, it rhymes with shriek.

Suddenly he did not want to be here.

Once outside the godswood, the cold descended on him like a ravening wolf had caught him in its teeth. He lowered his head into the wind and made for the Great Hall, hastening after the long line of candles and torches. Ice crunches beneath his boots, and a sudden 'gust' pushed back his hood as if a ghost had plucked at him with frozen fingers, hungry to gaze upon his face”

So we get multiple options here, perhaps the wind is the last place anyone would look.  Bran and BR can see through the eyes of the weirwood and there's loads of mist as well.  But onto the bolded, Theon considers this voice or 'whisper' to be from a god or possibly a ghost.  This is a fair assumption as Bran seems to have become an 'old god' if you like.  And watching secretly through trees while able to hear and then playing with things using the wind etc.. is all rather ghostly don't you think?  I mentioned the word play GRRM uses in my RL's series, this is another example of how he manipulates the word ghost.

Then the cold and wind is described as a ravening wolf!!  That just screams Bran I think, on top of his association with ravens there is loads of bird imagery that surrounds his arc since AGOT.  And the wolf allusion is obvious, this seems perfect, a ravening wolf indeed.  Thanks George! 

The final bold is a cool example.  The wind often 'gusts' or 'swirls' when it blows in to play with characters, as it does here with a gust.  Then the gust actually 'pushes' Theon's hood back as if a ghost had plucked at him with frozen fingers.  I like this passage, the personification really brings it to life.  We get a voice, a whisper, a god, a ghost, a ravening wolf, and the plucking of the hood.  All very cool.

I love the 'ghost' connection as well.  We know Bran and BR are there watching through the tree, then when Theon hears the whisper [which comes from the tree, it's Bran!] he thinks it is ghosts.  Boom, there's your textual association with Bran and BR being ghosts.  And then to complete the scene George has that 'ghost' play with Theon's hood, as the wind has a want to do.  Sometimes it plays with cloaks as well, Arya's blanket etc........  Very nicely done I feel.  Don't forget he plays with this when around Jon and his Direwolf Ghost and the Ghost of HH, the ghosts that roam Winterfell etc...... 

Sorry, I am going on too long.  I hope this helps tune your eye into some of this stuff [if it's right], as I think you're right that the wind/old gods/Bran is going to be important moving forward.  :D     

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  • 3 weeks later...

Update:

Over the course of the next few weeks, I will be adding slowly to the first page which includes mini-organizer write ups for RW. I will post an update each time one is added. I wouldn't even bother to check first pages on earlier versions of RW because the one running will always be more current. A lot has been added over time.

The next Post Question will be focused on Podrick Payne. 

I took a long break. Over that time there were developments, tidbits of news, new takes I either read or saw, and a hell of a lot of thinking going on. So a little RW write up is in the works. 

Don't forget to please revamp any topic at any time. Its going to happen for me with our last and most recent posts via Wizz the Smith. I have a lot more responding to do as I re-read and really start to think much more on the topic.

And its always a good time for a little Stranger and Sandor:

 

When Sandor told Stranger he refused to be knighted:

(Several loud crashes)

Sandor: Did you really need to clear off my entire table? The holes in the door don't matter. The door was old anyway.

Stranger: Come on, just get the promotion and we step on their throats later. Am I the only one that learned a damn thing hanging in King's Landing? Really, Sandor…when we are knights we can do whatever the hell we want. They all do anyway. 

Sandor: Stranger, you would not be the one getting knighted. And I think you mean we'll be doing whatever the hell you want.

Stranger: Right. So no arguments there at least. Whatever…and if Jaime Lannister's stupid mule of a horse makes one more bragging comment…You know, the horse that looks like Lady Stokeworth. How I'd love to rub this in his stupid face. I can't touch him because of who he is, but I'd love to kick the crap out of him. If I was knighted along with you...

Sandor: (shakes his head) No.

Stranger: Shut up, moron, you know what I mean.

Sandor: Aw, buddy, is there peer pressure amongst the stables? Are they picking on my little Stranger?

Stranger: I can take care of myself, as you very well know. (Stranger looks around at the room.) But they might be….

Sandor: (thinks he hears the word "ass" muttered under his horse's breath.)

Stranger: And just for the record, everyone thinks you're insane for turning it down, I think you should know. I tell them you're insane anyway and they said everyone knew that already, so there you go. There you have it, Sandor. You know I never hold back.

(Long silence)

Sandor: I am not calling you Ser Stranger.

Stranger: Yes, you will.

Sandor: No, I'm not.

Stranger: Oh, yes, you are. Believe it.

Sandor: (Either a loud growl or the word "no." I can't tell which.)

Stranger: Fine. But they will be in the stables…oh, they will be. I was born an excellent specimen of a horse. But these clowns get ridden by knights and get all the perks that come with it.  I deserve it! You are not ruining my chances this time.

 

Podrick Payne in a few.

 

 

 

 

 

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Post Question #26: Podrick Payne –  It sometimes sucks to be Robin.

 

Pod is one of my all time favorite bumbling sidekicks. Not even necessary to state that there’s much more to him because it’s apparent many times in the series, and I feel more is coming too. Loads of potential, deathly shy, but his crippling shyness is overcome when he needs to come through in several situations that are thrown his way. He has so many qualities that are great I could never address them all. And why even bother? We can take it apart on the thread together.

 

 

So a little about Pod (Robin) before we get to Brienne (Batman) and more recent events. And I love, knowing them as we do, their on the road partnership. I have a soft spot for both and I love that he gets a great warrior and human being to learn from, and to gain experience, unfortunately doing some really dangerous stuff, but who better than her to support him as he keeps emerging from his shell. She is tough and kind, firm yet fair, and it just works.

 

Podrick started his career off with a BANG! (Ok, I’m going to use the old school Batman action/fight scene card words or whatever for the hell of it) controversially as Tyrion Lannister’s squire, which was also around the time we saw that there’s much more there to him than one would initially guess. When it’s down to the wire, he’s very loyal, responsible, can become a man of action, can react fast, and just so happens to be extremely brave. He can be cool and calm and act if it is required in a dangerous situation. He manages the ultimate act of a squire: he saves Tyrion’s life.

 

Pod is also a distant cousin of Illyn Payne, the guy that is always a bag of giggles. Serious expressions might just run in the Payne family. But Pod’s early life is no laughing matter. He didn’t have the greatest breaks in life with his immediate family for a start, but no ingénue/sidekick ever does. He also almost lost his life over, well, a ham. Not even a more expensive Prosciutto or a Serrano; just a regular boy…just a regular ham.

 

Pod’s apprenticeship with Tyrion has some elements of slapstick pairings, but in a very dangerous world/backdrop of Westeros, and not much is expected for both guys from most of the characters in the series. Pod is a tad too quiet for Tyrion’s taste, and Tyrion on the other hand has no qualms about saying something when he feels it’s warranted. However, they get along nicely and treat each other fairly well. Pod is trained by Ser Aron Santagar until his death and surely observes and learns a lot as Tyrion’s squire, and in a place where even the most unassuming and innocent can learn fast: King’s Landing, and right in the heart of intrigue as squire to a Lannister. He becomes a survivor of the Battle of the Blackwater where he saves Tyrion’s life. POW! Uh, how about that Mandon Moore? Pod becomes devoted to Tyrion who does look out for him, is considerate, and gives Pod what is very hard for him to do with others; Tyrion gives him his trust.

 

Indications of natural intelligence, keen observation, other potential skills, and possibly very good memory have been demonstrated at various points. One instance that stands out for me is when Pod joins Tyrion to meet the Dornish Delegation. He can identify and explain the various banners gathered that most probably couldn’t or not give a rat’s ass to even bother. Nor care to. Now I have seen stuff or theories about this and I don’t know what side of what fence I want to sit on.

 

On the other end of the spectrum, he is also very shy around women and can’t muster more than a bright red blush around Sansa. Not a problem, dude. Sandor acts like a moron around her too. Just ask how many times many of us have posted in exasperation or with laugh out loud reactions to his attempts to interact with her and others.  Most of it is sad and his inner turmoil is apparent, but also godawful attempts at grasping at straws and being unable to communicate feelings in a somewhat healthy manner. The thought has always lingered with me that most of his outward anger really has to do with himself. The only thing I can compare half of it is to some insecure doofus that drunk-dials a girl he likes, only to regret it horribly in the morning. Yeah, just that smooth… God, he needs a wingman badly, and Stranger’s just had it by now. You know when Stranger has to witness his awkward, angry ramblings he throws up a little in his mouth.

 

Pod shares so many of the wonderful qualities of Brienne that I was never too surprised that they were written to run into each other and work together. And by book 4 they have both been in the deep of it together and seemingly for a long haul. He seeks and finds Brienne, because as the highest example of a loyal and brave young squire, he is looking to rejoin Tyrion. Pod is brave and true, and really had an opportunity to dump Tyrion’s ass for good, but that is not what this good guy is about. He is a good ally, hell, a good buddy to have, period, and when he promises to do something, or takes an oath, like Brienne, he will try to move heaven and earth to fulfill it and do his best.

 

Now Pod is not very good at surveillance. Ok, he sucks. He’ll never be James Bond. But Robin went off and Batman had to run and try to save him a few times and then he got caught up in the thick of things too. Tied up with rope, vines, and other papier mache crap right next to him in certain cases, and with both unable to reach a damn utility belt, more than once. DRAT! Brienne notices pretty quickly that she is being followed by Pod. She discovers that they are both looking for Sansa. And Pod receives even more training from the formidable Brienne, who genuinely takes his duty as squire seriously and wants him to improve. Again, he truly couldn’t sort of intern for a better person.

 

The “almost hanging” scene, which by the way took off like five years of my life, when they are taken by Mother Merciless and her backup dancers, was tense as all hell.  It was more the fear that too many of the good guys always die in the series. I saw him as the innocent lamb possibly being up for the dying. It would just be a kick to the pants that he never fulfills his potential and he gets nailed for the guilt by association of being with Brienne who gets caught red-handed with Lannister souvenirs. He even knows less about what the hell is really going on than her. But he also was a Lannister squire, so that’s not so good either. And it can’t be good that House Payne are sworn to the Lannisters. I can see the gray vein popping in Stoneheart’s brow, or what was her brow, as I type.

 

So, in this series, with most of his time on the road with Brienne, I was damn convinced that potentially he has “Marked for Death” written all over him. Maybe even more than her? I really entertained at times that the bitch of it would be that he dies and she survives, because we all know that his death would totally mess her up. And me too. ( Even now until the next book comes out, we still really don’t know what the hell happened exactly, what he’s doing, or how well he will fare. We just see Brienne encounter Jaime, minus Pod.) Though I am pretty sure Pod, is being held by BWB, to “hang” it over her head to do their bidding, but the fact remains that it is still with the “understanding” that BWB is never letting both of them go. I would think. Which translates to, something is going to go down somehow with Brienne, Pod, and their keepers. And now we have Jaime involved too, who is damn unpredictable at times, and I worry about him shooting his mouth off. But it did cross my mind that I am damn sure he will take in the loveliness that is Uncat….urgh…and he may be shocked as shit into keeping his mouth shut and ascertain really quick what the hell is really going on. Or some of it. Because neither the readers nor even the characters themselves truly know what the hell Uncat really is nor what exactly she is going to do even minute to minute.

 

So Pod back with the BWB and Uncat doesn’t make me feel any less uneasy. I doubt he’s hanging out playing cards with Uncat and cracking jokes with BWB. What happens next makes me nervous because as we’ve discussed countless times on the Riverlands Web, there are a lot of potential outcomes for each person involved in this whole area.

 

But I totally felt for him as a character. The poor boy with a rough and slow start, well, it finally escalates and now he’s going to die on the precipice with so much potential, and without nearly experiencing much of life, especially the happier things. I hoped to hell before it happened in that very tense moment of reading that seemed to stretch much longer, that LS and those of the BWB present would somehow cut him a break, knowing that at this point from what we’ve observed, that was highly friggin’ unlikely. Sorry, the brain and heart scrambles to cope when it must. At this moment before book 6, yeah, he is in a bind.  They stayed his execution with “for now” possibly hanging very heavy in the air. You know he can’t even look at a tree now without worrying. Perhaps even the same for Brienne, because, just a reminder, we still don’t have a clear picture of what was said and what the hell really went down when Brienne and Pod were cut down. The Merrett scene and surely the other deaths made it pretty clear: We are BWB and we are not flip-floppers. But here we see what was highly unlikely, the one instance where they did stop a hanging.

 

The Merrett Frey scene is emblazoned on my brain: how he pondered his entire life briefly before the shock. How ominous I read everything leading up to it now, but even on a first read, how eerie I felt. I got the bad Spidey-Sense tingle. Like the bad feeling when Grey Wind was trying to warn Robb, the eerie feeling turning queasy and then into full-blown heart-pounding panic. So I’m yelling at a book. “Damn it, would you look at him? Look at the wolf! Listen to the pet. Do not go in there! Something’s like really wrong, dude. Jesus Christ…will you not go in there?” Even if it was more like the feeling that the Late Lord Frey, a best-worst case scenario, was going to pull the whiny guilt card again and make the Starks promise some more crap he feels he is entitled to. Maybe even some bad marriages. Many of us were on that thread about coming up with funny Frey mottoes. And they were funny, but really one of their mottoes should be: “Hey, nobody under this roof is a catch in any marriage pool. Really. None of us.”

 

I think of the break-a-sweat feeling of foreshadowing for me like when Batman and Robin hit Eureka with a Riddler Puzzle but they are still in for deep shit and seem to know it by the stupid yet expectant looks on their cowl and mask. And most likely they will still end up tied to something or hanging upside down on an awfully color-blinding set. Or maybe drowned in like a slushy, eaten by plants, or something like that. Those 60’s fonts and paintball-hued colors are like chicken soup to me now, though I was not around to see the original airings. I watched the re-runs years later. I love the show.

 

The author is truly exceptional about giving/evoking those feelings to us in writing. A veritable genius at building up that feeling for the audience of viewing a character right before they are getting killed off with like almost a bad horror movie audience feel. You are not quite feeling 100% definite yet and hope nothing bad happens, you don’t want to believe it or be wrong, but another part of your brain and your body feel otherwise. I’ve taken note over time of my kung-fu gripping of the books in the series as I sit stock still on my couch during those times.

 

Merrett facing BWB and that moment when it hit him and he knew he was near the end was rough. And I hate the Freys… I thought of it like Tessio in the Godfather. Those moments when it is very clear that the game is up and there is no use pretending. The striking realization that they can’t convince anyone of anything and yes, they are going to die. Well, I couldn’t face it for Pod. Brienne neither, but Pod is in a different station in life too, even more innocent than she is, and with less time living. Oh, I hyperventilated for him. For both, but they are also different individuals with different experiences.

 

So we leave Pod with his life still very much threatened and in danger and being held by up by an antsy, unsteady hand by the back of his shirt. By a sort of mottled gray once married to a Stark hand with a stringy-white once gloriously auburn-haired head. Those brilliant but bring-the point-home-too-much fan pics of Stoneheart out there…Well, I already admitted once in another post that they make me want to sleep with the lights on. The comparison to what she was versus what she is now is never lost on me when I read her parts. So really anything could happen to Podrick from the seemingly “trigger happy” LS (Joker) or any one of the sort of lately unpredictable BWB (henchmen with similar ideals and/or silly costumes that sometimes sort of match, that even the Joker, I guarantee, would NOT wear.) OR the budget was cut. But you can tell they all belong to The Clown, or in this case the lady holding Robb’s crown. Ok, I doubt anybody would want to walk down a dark alley and pass Lem wearing the Hound helm and a citrus-colored cloak. Any word or move Brienne, possibly later Jaime, or someone else could make can also threaten Pod’s survival too if it comes to that. And that is why I am hoping for either two things: a wild card, something similar to the Hail Mary play in football, or both when it finally comes down to it.

 

So what are your impressions of Pod? What do you think or hope will happen to him going further? How does he extricate himself, or how will events, or other people affect his future existence in the story? What is he doing or what is going on with him right about now?

 

The only way I can explain it is he was physically, yet is still seemingly stuck like in a cheaply constructed kid’s cardboard project, which I still love the kitsch…a bad death prop contraption just waiting to be activated or already counting down awfully slow like in a 1960’s Batman tv show episode. The credits are about to run, the cliffhanger is multi-colored and loud. Those that don’t care if they die or even actively might want them to are surrounding the scene and watching. The somewhat appealing, but you’re not sure why, narrator aside voice is egging on that it’s a bad situation. You grab a soda pop bottle while keeping an eye on the scene because shit is certainly about to go down, just in case you had to be reminded. It certainly doesn’t look good, it looks bad; it looks impossible, certainly hopeless too, but is there hope?

 

And we have to wait around, or, er, tune in. Perhaps a little more than a next Batman episode…cause if nothing else is, cliffhangers are killers. So I am hoping that Batman Brienne can team up with her Superman Jaime and get all three of them the hell of there. Er, somehow.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 5/29/2016 at 7:19 PM, Booknerd2 said:

and if Jaime Lannister's stupid mule of a horse makes one more bragging comment…

Loved this line!  The whole post had me laffing out loud.   'Ser Stranger', smile when you say that!    Thanks Bookie!

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Thanks, Longie. It's Stranger's world, we're just living in it. lol. He should be knighted. What with posing as the cart house in the Pig Feet Peddling-Peasant ruse, trying to protect himself on the QI, bored out of his mind on the QI, not having his face on a tunic Sandor wears, having to observe the Novice Brother Halloween Costume, and other sundry items….oh, and having to witness his embarrassing interactions with the redhead.

Just in general for the thread: Not happening tonight, but tomorrow I should be able to start posting a little of a lot of stuff. 

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A multitude of people, events, and topics are forthcoming. Please rehash any topic at any time while we still have Bran and Wind and Pod Payne write-ups posted somewhat recently, among other topics.

 

 I don’t know, I’ve jumped around a lot and have been assessing all kinds of topics like its pick apart and dissect time or something. I’ve been naturally turning stuff over in my head, some old that I need to take a look at again, and some new. The show gave some momentum and food for thought regarding what will happen, won’t, or what I’m not quite sure of. Basically, there was stuff that after a bit of a hiatus, was put in front of my face again, that I had to look at and think hard about, and even ponder possible avenues and perspectives. To ask the questions: Am I behind each or not? What if this happens or doesn’t happen? Some things are the gist of what I expected somewhat, some not, with some not being possible at all regarding the series direction, from were we already are in the books. With so much stimuli the past few weeks after taking an involuntary break, collecting thoughts got a bit easier to do again, despite the busies. I’m just gonna go with it before being busy catches up with me again. Also, really cool to see a big focus on the Riverlands in many aspects, when so many of us posted on the Riverlands Web for such a long time and with so much info to look at. With the Riverlands gaining the forefront, it does feel like a good time to reflect.

 

Putting under spoilers just in case, due to mentions of book 6 chapters.

 

 

 

Spoiler

 

Arya and/or Gendry

 

 

 This has been such an interesting week for the character of Arya. So what I'm writing, uh, just happened. I didn't want to do a write up on Arya and/or Gendry to start off, but they had to appear first in line after recent developments. Let me start off by saying that I am prepared for anything in their single arcs, and possible joint arcs. Cause it looks like it's happening.

 

 

Am I grateful for the news? Very. Am I earth-shatteringly surprised? To be honest, no, I’m not. Is it nice to still have it said? Hell, yeah. I love the Wolf Pack. Now I just wait for Big Nyms and Hot Pie to emerge.

 

 

 

 On Gendry:

For him, I think just by knowing Arya and spending that time with her, and later after the abrupt departure from his life, I believe he was given a lot of time alone to think. Yes, I do think he can think. But that topic is for another time. I believe it was Arya that primarily changed his mind about lords and ladies and class. In her, with her, he observed because of her that they the upper-classed can be honorable. Period. And honor is among the many things that appear to be important to him, or what he respects. God knows who the hell he observed in KL also, to start his negative opinions from a young age to begin with. And he sees Arya who can still do so, still be honorable, despite tragedy and hardship and without the material trappings that she makes apparent she never cared much about anyway. The acorn dress drove that point home too. Especially with the probably just as mortifying dress with pearls on it; she is not like other girls is made very clear, let alone those of her class, rank, station, what have you. She is of a great house, daughter of a great lord to boot, highest among most of the lords and houses. And she, like him, struggles with fear and worry and loss and displacement, in addition. So for everything they don’t have in common from birth, they have a lot presently that they do, which makes for an interesting dynamic from the get go. She is honorable, and kind, and hard-working, determined, strong, not selfish, funny, considerate, a team player, honest, fair, and more. So he made the connection that others of that class can be because she is. Evidence enough, that she is real and they interact and work together for a common cause: survival. She is not caught up with anything than being who she is, and surviving, and helping her Pack, even if they give her a hard time. She is admirable. In time, that can turn into something else when they are older. That is my line of thinking.

 

 

 

She is not a quitter, she will try her best, she is a fighter, even with him she will stand up for herself, her opinion and beliefs, and even physically hold her own with him if she feels it’s warranted. He understands Needle, because he understands his own helm. Or he did until it was taken like her prized possession was. I believe from her list, it’s apparent that it still pisses her off. She understands the same for him and his helm, in return.

 

 

 

I thought of the Princess Bride where Buttercup doesn’t know initially that it’s Wesley. He didn’t know who she really was for a spell, but he does eventually. And he never hated her. He was always protective and something compelled him to be. He seemed to feel sorry for the smaller “boy” that was being pushed around by Hot Pie and Lommy. All the makings for a day when things are better and he thinks: Wow, who would have known? The twists and turns life takes, and the people we meet. Quite sure that line of inquiry went though his head at the Orphanage. And they could have been written to meet later on in the series, and not very early on as excuse for NW recruits. Sansa met her Baratheon bud, Mya, much later.  Arya would be older, he might have always known she was a girl from the start and a Stark. But it didn’t. This is better. This has roots. It has depth. It has seeds. It is a history.

 

 

 

One of the big questions that pop in Gendry’s book 4 cameo appearance is that he might have gained new perspective, really, about a lot of things. He might have changed his views on class, and people, and status and what it means to him, when he was so touchy, defensive, stubborn, and out right argumentative and sometimes teasing with a dash of bitter thrown in. If it did, that is all her. The fact is, the author made much of him being portrayed as making his own sword. No background busy work, scene enhancement that gives motion to a scene, or whatever. He’s not absent-mindedly talking to Brienne, with whatever she can get out of him, and he’s fixing a small nick in armor, tinkering with a hammer, dunking stuff in water, etc. He’s not. He’s making a sword of his own, and the many things that can symbolize, or the hints it can possibly tell us. His mind might have changed, his training possibly changed, his location and what he’s doing might change. What he wants to do might be changing. Or even his feelings. Where that can take him. That I don’t know.

 

 

 

I believe like in classic lit, old movies, tv shows, etc., they are separated for a more positive future. To both gain identity on their own terms, independently. To develop experience and see some of life solo. And that will work for them, until the time is ripe, and that is just not going to work anymore.  There are lots of variables, true, but its still a viable option.

 

 

 

On Mercy:

 

 

 

For me, Mercy changed everything. Or really it was like ten big steps forward. It backed up some stuff that occurred to me, it was reassurance, and made a future direction a bit clearer, still foggy, but not that dense. It was a gift to show that Arya is still attached to her past and her self, when there were doubts for a long time, and stuff very up in the air. When all is said and done, the bottom line is this: She avenges a fellow Wolf Packer. That is a huge sticking point for me. And one she wasn’t even particularly close to. Lommy’s selection to take part in this scene in memorium is perfect. They weren’t as close as she was to even Hot Pie and even more so, Gendry. With Lommy, she sucked up a lot of smack talk and tried to be accommodating. Didn’t work out to well. Then she risks her life and if she wanted a potential new life with the FM, for someone, well, he wasn’t a charmer. A scared, lashing out, frightened smart mouth young boy; well, yeah, he was.

 

 

 

Arya is conflicted in Mercy. She was for a while before that too. We don’t have access to the times this might have been simmering when she is not on scene all the time. If the book was solely about her, maybe we would. It’s like the point where the guy is transforming in flashes in the A-Ha “Take on Me” video, it’s a struggle that ends.  A light switch goes on for her, maybe for us. There was transition, but the person reached the point of no return. A done deal. One side, one path won out over the other. If it looked like she was on the path to go somewhere else, she retraced her steps; pretty fast, which makes me ponder, how “all in” she ever was with the FM. Not as much as it ever looked, I think.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On internal flexibility of Riverlands headed characters (anyone on Team Find Sansa and Arya) and Uncat, Uncat, and more Uncat. (Note: “Uncat” is shorter to type than “Lady Stoneheart”, and in this case, more fitting with what I have to say. We have the “un” meaning “the reverse of” and then her name “Cat.” So where is she leaning?

 

The next post after this (still need time to fix the groupings so I have to hold it): It’s a Group Effort, as long as nobody shoots first and asks questions later.

 

Also, a little addition from the last post on Arya before Uncat…

 

Spoiler

 

Sometimes visuals give me a ping to the brain. Sunday was very moving. There was just something about watching Maisie as Arya scrambling through the rocks and the moment it hit, because there were changes from Mercy, and I was like “Holy shit, it’s Needle.” Because for a hot second before that I didn’t know what the hell she was doing because the changes from the theater trope incident and the waif and other stuff from what actually went down in Mercy threw me for a second. When that sword got pulled I was in the room watching with a non-book reader and they were like: “Oh, crap I guess it’s over, she’s going home,” while I proceeded to cheer and go nuts.

 

I was like: “Hell yeah, it’s over. Damn right. Get the rest of the Wolf Pack ready, Big Nyms, it’s on!”

 

I had no restraint that evening and had to post on RW. I also had to post somewhere on the show thread: “NEEEDDDLLLEEE!!!” And somewhere threw out: “Get ready Big Nyms….Mommy and Needle are on their way.”

 

So corny…Sorry.

 

But I did get something out of it. The brain ping. It crossed my mind that I’m starting to see Swords show a change of life path. Arya grabbing Needle and changing course, Brienne bestowed with Oathkeeper and heading out to undertake major tasks, John receiving Longclaw , Ned beginning a new life and possibly new internal turmoil as he returns Dawn and goes home to start anew the best he can, Gendry making a sword in the smithy and being “different.”

 

I have to absorb this and it seems like it is something to come back to.

 


 

On Uncat

 

Uncat and some members of the BWB’s brittle rigidness or even anyone else’s in the vicinity, and anyone holding old grudges, well, it just ain’t gonna fly in future. Yes, it will occur differently for every individual, but old beefs are going to have to be dropped in order to move forward for character growth and to be successful in their quests outside of just finding the girls too.

 

Uncat is a prime example. She is the one that I think won’t be able to do this the most, not impossible as of yet from the little we know, but the least likely chances of doing so. If I’m wrong, I’d be shocked as all hell, yet happy, because the series would just blow my mind again in surprise and how it unfolds. She may go earlier than most and I think she is going period. There are candidates ahead of her regarding characters, where some will stay the course and not die at the end of the series. I think she may be at the bottom of the list in that regard.

 

Uncat is a figurehead or whatever she is that was the rallying point for the BWB after Beric to start, but for going the distance, I don’t know. One crack was the Dayne Departure by Edric, and people do go with him. I think Thoros opening up to the unknown outsider that is Brienne let us know that he is not the only one or the second one, and that there are internal fissures and cracks in their organization. And the author, obviously, wrote that for us to see for a reason. I also think it was risky if Uncat or any BWB that would turn on Thoros should overhear or if Brienne said anything later. Isn’t that treasonous? Do I think Uncat would appreciate him saying that? Hell, no. But her black or white, no gray area, very cut and dry decisiveness that is even spreading amongst some around her will not fly for long. With the impending atmosphere being created, people that had long deeply held beefs with each other need to get it together, let it go, even be opening to listen and understand, and gasp…may even have to work together to some small or greater extent, for the greater good, and to find Arya or Sansa or both. Which may not happen that way, but many are trying or really are going to do their best and maybe die trying.  So in the next post I am going to take a look at any drawbacks, causes for concern, or good signs possible for these upcoming possible truces. I’m not even sure the word can do every scenario justice.

 

What I can’t shake is that the fact still remains that no matter what the circumstances, Brienne and Pod were still pardoned albeit even if Uncat or the BWB on her side think it is only temporary. Still done. She is not so out of control, erratic and beyond reason that she couldn’t stop herself from just not caring even if there is to be gain, in order that she can just hang them and be done with it out of revenge.

There is some higher order and cool thinking and rationalizing here. There is some calculation on her part, some cunning and the ability to wait and strategize. Makes me even more confused of what her precise state of being and capacities are. How much of her beyond the physical which we know, is highly functional, how much of humanity is left? She is not some monster creature ready to kill all. There is reason and deduction present. She is residing and “living” amongst the BWB. The Orphanage is being run most likely with the intent to sift through orphans and waifs in hopes that Arya may turn up. Nobody is turned away. The kids are taken care of. She is part of that.  Does she visit and read at “story hour” probably not, but I still can’t shake there is a lot we don’t know about her, very little we do, and a lot comes back to Robb’s crown for me. It is the biggest clue we have, I think, or the “one of these things is not like the others” piece.

 

Now what about: soul, conscience, emotion, psyche, feelings, id, ego, whatever, psychological, mental, etc? How much of each ingredient is left in the minestrone soup, if you catch my drift? What is altered, damaged, new, never coming back, can she make progress? Is there even a little chance, because there is stuff deep down not apparent to us yet? Maybe not even to her yet? Can something strike a chord? Someone?

 

I think the big test will be Uncat hearing of or seeing a family member. The quickest one I would think would be Black Fish before the Stark girls or boys, but I could be wrong. Her holding Robb’s crown and fingering it was thrown in for a clue, a hint, I think. Or something else? Let me throw out: Ned’s bones, LF, news of John Snow, a Frey, a Lannister, Jaime arriving, the Hound who she thinks has Sansa and had Arya. What people, things, or events would possibly be a catalyst for some type of emotional response? Can she even have them anymore? Can she even think she can have them via memory of having them? Does she see a “life” for herself when her brand of justice is served? Is the plan to do what she can and die when she thinks her mission is over? If she gets a kid or two back, than what? Does she want to see them and does she want them to see her? Does she want to die someday?  Damn, my brain hurts. The only reason I think there is a possibility is my belief that her holding Robb’s crown in silence and it being described to us by the author is a hint. A time she is described where she is not holding her throat to roughly demand someone hangs. A standout moment that differs from the very little we saw of how she rolls now. It might be possible. Maybe even more than she or even those around her currently know. Or the readers. When she appears in books again, I know I’ll be analyzing every gesture, word uttered if possible, action, and be observing those around her and what they can add.

 

 

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On 5/29/2016 at 8:51 PM, Booknerd2 said:

So what are your impressions of Pod? What do you think or hope will happen to him going further? How does he extricate himself, or how will events, or other people affect his future existence in the story? What is he doing or what is going on with him right about now?

Brienne and Podrick is very much a Dunk and Egg redux.especially since Brienne is a descendant of Dunk.  Brienne is a not-really wandering knight, and Podrick is a not-really squire she meets on the way to whom she becomes effectively a parent.  I think they will have many more adventures together.  I think Brienne's role is to help out the Stark girls, and Podrick knows one of them.  And she knows him, which could be important when introductions are being made.  Podrick's story has a ways to go.  At least, I certainly hope so.

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19 hours ago, Booknerd2 said:

Will try to post again. Something went haywire.

Well I'm very glad you did!!  :D  That was a funny and enjoyable read, good work Bookie!  Brienne and Pod as Batman and Robin is awesome, I love your creative take on some of these RL's arcs. [Stranger stuff was great again.  Still think we need to get some of those down in comic strip form]  :P  While you ponder over these main themes in the books with a heart on sleeve, there I am looking at the guy in the background or trying to find some obscure meaningful text. [which often isn't there]  I really do enjoy reading your thoughts, it keeps me in touch with real story going on here.  As George always says...'The human heart and conflict with itself' 

Thanks again Bookie!  I may respond with more when time allows.  I have a few essay's in fire at the moment, it is slow going!  But always welcome an essay from you, and bring on that RL's stuff in the show.  Even if they miss stuff out, I will be excited to watch whatever they have for us.  We have put a lot of time and effort into this arc, I get goose bumps when I see it all play out on screen.  It's awesome.  :)     

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1 hour ago, Nevets said:

Brienne and Podrick is very much a Dunk and Egg redux.especially since Brienne is a descendant of Dunk.  Brienne is a not-really wandering knight, and Podrick is a not-really squire she meets on the way to whom she becomes effectively a parent.  I think they will have many more adventures together.  I think Brienne's role is to help out the Stark girls, and Podrick knows one of them.  And she knows him, which could be important when introductions are being made.  Podrick's story has a ways to go.  At least, I certainly hope so.

Hi Nevets!  :)

I agree that Brienne and Pod is a Dunk and Egg parallel.  And I hope you're right when you say that they will have many more adventures together.  There's already all the painted shield evidence and the Pennytree scene where Brienne forces Jaime to follow her etc.....  Let's hope the 'awesome twosome' have many more tales to tell moving forward.  

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1 hour ago, Nevets said:

Brienne and Podrick is very much a Dunk and Egg redux.especially since Brienne is a descendant of Dunk.  Brienne is a not-really wandering knight, and Podrick is a not-really squire she meets on the way to whom she becomes effectively a parent.  I think they will have many more adventures together.  I think Brienne's role is to help out the Stark girls, and Podrick knows one of them.  And she knows him, which could be important when introductions are being made.  Podrick's story has a ways to go.  At least, I certainly hope so.

 

Hey, Nevets,

It was so awesome to have that confirmed. And they are great together, funny, sweet, range of emotions, just like I favor the Wolf Pack.

I think they are going the distance, or my gut leans that way. Both still have a lot to accomplish and a lot of potential. Just whatever is going on with them as far as Stoneheart and the BWB is just tense. I agree with you, Pod couldn't be luckier to have such a person take them under their wing. 

Totally agree. Brienne is looking for Sansa, and just so happens to have Sansa's husband's squire find her. Serendipitous totally, and Pod can help Brienne id her. With the hundred ways it could play out if it does, it would be a kick in the pants if they stumble upon Alayne, and Pod quietly murmurs: "Ser….uh, I mean, my lady….that is Lady Sansa." And Brienne looks at him with a priceless face. You know, something to that effect. But its one of many options I keep in the back of my mind. There are just too many possible outcomes.

I don't think Pod and Brienne crack the Arya case when she returns, that could play out many ways. I think Arya may encounter other people besides them first, but maybe eventually they are all near or involved. Not sure. Though I think he could have possibly seen her in KL, its nowhere near a positive id as he could with Sansa. I have to check this. Also, its been so long, and she surely has changed. 

I do worry if LS and BWB know he was Tryions's squire. They already view him as guilty by association with Brienne. His background can't help. And the Paynes are tied to Lannisters too.

 

 

 

 

 

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