The North Storyline in S6

[Stag_legion]

Regardless, I have found what stephen dillane is doing- he is doing a series called the tunnel 2. So Stannis is dead. That or they would have to blue screen him into everyshot... which is hardly plausible. Sorry Stannis fans. Well, regardless there is no reason to argue any of this before winds comes out. It's utterly pointless. I imagine Stephn dillane may have also had a part in Stannis's death. They both film at the same time and as an actor I imagine Game of thrones might be a good series to be in- but honestly he is the Star of the tunnel.

its not unusual for an actor to be in two different shows at the same time, he's been on The Tunnel since 2013 and it didn't prevent him from being on GOT.

[Stannis is the man....nis]

 

Here is the issue I have with adaptations in general. I have no desire to see simplified versions of characters. Denthor, Ron weasely, voldemort all suffered from this. When it comes to game of thrones is partly Martin's fault but giving Jon snow Stannis's story line is terrible. Most of people I know who saw the show only see Stannis as a villain, Ramsay as an evil genius, and see varys as a good guy. Very different from their book version's. Thought I wonder if varys believes in the whole tptwp thing but that's something I picked up in the books and the show. So varys might be a good guy but that's something else entirely.

But here's the thing that gets me with GOT while yes HP and LOTR simplified (though in Voldemort's case I would argue he's kind of a simple character to begin with) at no point did you feel the people involved especially with Jackson that they hated the hardcore fans of the source material. While in D&D's case they have really have given hints of hating the book fans

[Farerb]

But here's the thing that gets me with GOT while yes HP and LOTR simplified (though in Voldemort's case I would argue he's kind of a simple character to begin with) at no point did you feel the people involved especially with Jackson that they hated the hardcore fans of the source material. While in D&D's case they have really have given hints of hating the book fans

What makes you think that they hate the book readers?

[VenezuelanLord]

Here is the issue I have with adaptations in general. I have no desire to see simplified versions of characters. Denthor, Ron weasely, voldemort all suffered from this. When it comes to game of thrones is partly Martin's fault but giving Jon snow Stannis's story line is terrible. Most of people I know who saw the show only see Stannis as a villain, Ramsay as an evil genius, and see varys as a good guy. Very different from their book version's. Thought I wonder if varys believes in the whole tptwp thing but that's something I picked up in the books and the show. So varys might be a good guy but that's something else entirely.

I totally agree with you, i hate what the show did with Stannis.. I think the main problem with the show is that D&D doesn't likr grey characters.. And ASOIAF is composed basically by gray characters, with Joffrey, Ramsay and Aerys as villains, Varys never struck me as a bad guy, just a guy with a different agenda

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

Here is the issue I have with adaptations in general. I have no desire to see simplified versions of characters. Denthor, Ron weasely, voldemort all suffered from this. When it comes to game of thrones is partly Martin's fault but giving Jon snow Stannis's story line is terrible. Most of people I know who saw the show only see Stannis as a villain, Ramsay as an evil genius, and see varys as a good guy. Very different from their book version's. Thought I wonder if varys believes in the whole tptwp thing but that's something I picked up in the books and the show. So varys might be a good guy but that's something else entirely.

I think answer is to simply not watch them because that's just what happens with adaptations, especially in movies. The constraints are too large to allow enough depth and sometimes are are other requirements.

As for your friends, I just think they are not watching very hard or not paying attention if they think Stannis is a villain or varys is a good guy.

[Marcus Agrippa]

its not unusual for an actor to be in two different shows at the same time, he's been on The Tunnel since 2013 and it didn't prevent him from being on GOT.

I'll take your word for it. I am a business and science buff. I know little of entertainment and production schedules.

 

But here's the thing that gets me with GOT while yes HP and LOTR simplified (though in Voldemort's case I would argue he's kind of a simple character to begin with) at no point did you feel the people involved especially with Jackson that they hated the hardcore fans of the source material. While in D&D's case they have really have given hints of hating the book fans

Agreed- but the readers have been dickish to the crew back. Its a two way street. WHere I have issues with dabid because of troy- and I will never forgive that transgression- some readers take some of the spoilers and nitpicks a little far. See my response to farab

 

What makes you think that they hate the book readers?

A lot of the comments by the group of actors, production, and even directors have been from anywhere neutral to hostile to book readers- I can't blame thm however. A book reader spoiled charles dance his own death. Both sides suck. I gotta admit asoiaf reader base is pretty... well jerkish. The books aren't as great as they make it out to be- their good books and def a highlight of late/early 20th/21st century writing- but they still suffer from tropes, over extention, and over descripition. I like martin- his none got work is also terrific- but he does have a habit of being hand holdy in my own personal opinion.

 

I totally agree with you, i hate what the show did with Stannis.. I think the main problem with the show is that D&D doesn't likr grey characters.. And ASOIAF is composed basically by gray characters, with Joffrey, Ramsay and Aerys as villains, Varys never struck me as a bad guy, just a guy with a different agenda

Book varys is just the worst. He could have stopped all of this- and yes he did try to stop ned from being ned. However, He sold danerys into sexual slavery, he did his best to make sure Stannis didn't win, and he destroyed a good portion of the realm by not killing LF. He knew who littlefinger was. It wouldn't have mattered to anyone if LF had an accident.

 

I think answer is to simply not watch them because that's just what happens with adaptations, especially in movies. The constraints are too large to allow enough depth and sometimes are are other requirements.

As for your friends, I just think they are not watching very hard or not paying attention if they think Stannis is a villain or varys is a good guy.

 

I can't disagree with the sentimient. HP movies were just sort of bad except for the third fourth and fifth one. LOTR was excellant- the season with the elves at helms deep was almost master piece level- however the elves just sort of disappear at the end of the battle. Just a little weird. However, for the most part the difference between them and got is this- Martin gave them to much control. Honestly, you did have something right on your posts in the past- these books are near impossible to adapt. It would need 15 seasons (assuming I undestand what Martin is going to with the end and most of the tinfoil is wrong) with the storyline I came up with and some o those actors don't have 15 seasons- towards the end Jack gleeson looked 25- sansa, arya, and Jon have been kept around their age but they would easily be in their late20s/30s when the show finished. It's the fundmental misread of the characters is the biggest issue. The show has me doubting my stance on Varys which was pretty ironclad at the end of ADWD. Thats how different show varys is.We have gone over stannis, but I could easily bring up edard, the sand snakes, or margery tyrell. going back to varys Granted, I don't have vary's storyline- but were at the point where the two are so different that I don't which way to look. I am fairly logic based and it confuses the living shit out of me. Part of me blames Martin for not finishing the books- but at the same time David benioff has a history of being an idiot.

 

People don't take this show seriously- They watch if for to talk about the big scenes here out in the east coast. The truth is most of people I know talk about politics, business, sports, and tech. Entertainment is just beer talk/ work talk/ bored talk and consists of- "did you see X last night?" "yeah it was good/bad for this and that reason." "Word, thats legit." Thats who I discuss this with. The ones who decided to read the book are fairly depressed with the show-thought for much different reasons then the people on this board. Alot of the time its how evil tyrion is in the books vs his show counter part.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

 

 

I can't disagree with the sentimient. HP movies were just sort of bad except for the third fourth and fifth one. LOTR was excellant- the season with the elves at helms deep was almost master piece level- however the elves just sort of disappear at the end of the battle. Just a little weird. However, for the most part the difference between them and got is this- Martin gave them to much control. Honestly, you did have something right on your posts in the past- these books are near impossible to adapt. It would need 15 seasons (assuming I undestand what Martin is going to with the end and most of the tinfoil is wrong) with the storyline I came up with and some o those actors don't have 15 seasons- towards the end Jack gleeson looked 25- sansa, arya, and Jon have been kept around their age but they would easily be in their late20s/30s when the show finished. It's the fundmental misread of the characters is the biggest issue. The show has me doubting my stance on Varys which was pretty ironclad at the end of ADWD. Thats how different show varys is.We have gone over stannis, but I could easily bring up edard, the sand snakes, or margery tyrell. going back to varys Granted, I don't have vary's storyline- but were at the point where the two are so different that I don't which way to look. I am fairly logic based and it confuses the living shit out of me. Part of me blames Martin for not finishing the books- but at the same time David benioff has a history of being an idiot.

 

 

Adaptations have to fit the medium and the audience they are made for. I think unfortunately if Game of Thrones was an incredibly close adaptation of the books, like you say, not only would it go on forever (a total impracticality when filming large budget tv) but also I'd guess more than 80% of the people who watch it now would simply never bother with it. 

The books are far dryer, slower, meandering and political than the show, which is what makes them so good to read over a long period as they reward rereads and paying attention to all the details. The show by contrast is brisker, focussing more on human conflict and emotional issues. It also pushes itself into melodrama more often and leaves out many of the cool details in the books. Thats simply a necessity of being a mainstream tv show with a huge audience. Those are the decisions that were made when the show was made. The truth is, for most book readers, is that the version they want would simply never get made or would be cancelled within half a season. 

The audience for GoT is incredibly varied and when they are the sort of people who make a choice between watching GoT or Revenge or 90210 then you realise the sort of people you also have to cater for. That doesn't mean you should dumb it down so much, but on some level you have to. (There has of course been too much of this and I think we'd all agree on that) 

Thats why I'm not surprised when someone thinks that Stannis was a villain, because those people are probably not used to nuance and want to pigeon hole characters they see readily into little boxes. And yes Varys often comes across as a good guy, but I think we'd all be incredibly foolish to think that was how he'd stay by the end of the show.

 

[JonSnowed]

To the person who said S6 will be 90% different from Winds I really do not see it. Yes they covered some stuff from teh next book in S5 but I am convinced the stuff GRRM has written they have access too. I would say next season will be 50% stuff from the first half of Winds, 30% stuff from previously books they not used and 20% new stuff.

[A Ghost of Someone]

I have some basic wants for the Northern storyline and we may get them.

 

Jon Snow comeback and not be obligated to stay at the wall. He had just sworn his vows when war happended and he wanted to be by Robb's side and fight for this family.

 

Rickon and Shaggy Dog re-entrance into the show. I want Shaggy Dog to eat Ramsay Bolton, alive.

 

Ramsay and house Bolton eradication.

 

Bran's visions of the past and present.

 

Sansa escape to somewhere she will not be raped or threatened with it. Respected and protected for real. I can only hope.

[Marcus Agrippa]

Adaptations have to fit the medium and the audience they are made for. I think unfortunately if Game of Thrones was an incredibly close adaptation of the books, like you say, not only would it go on forever (a total impracticality when filming large budget tv) but also I'd guess more than 80% of the people who watch it now would simply never bother with it. 
The books are far dryer, slower, meandering and political than the show, which is what makes them so good to read over a long period as they reward rereads and paying attention to all the details. The show by contrast is brisker, focussing more on human conflict and emotional issues. It also pushes itself into melodrama more often and leaves out many of the cool details in the books. Thats simply a necessity of being a mainstream tv show with a huge audience. Those are the decisions that were made when the show was made. The truth is, for most book readers, is that the version they want would simply never get made or would be cancelled within half a season. 
The audience for GoT is incredibly varied and when they are the sort of people who make a choice between watching GoT or Revenge or 90210 then you realise the sort of people you also have to cater for. That doesn't mean you should dumb it down so much, but on some level you have to. (There has of course been too much of this and I think we'd all agree on that) 
Thats why I'm not surprised when someone thinks that Stannis was a villain, because those people are probably not used to nuance and want to pigeon hole characters they see readily into little boxes. And yes Varys often comes across as a good guy, but I think we'd all be incredibly foolish to think that was how he'd stay by the end of the show.

Well written. Now that is a good question- should have the books have been adapted? I don't know personally. Charles dance did well and played a better tywin then anyone could ask for. Well written, intelligent, and competent. Book tywin was two of those things ( you can argue his intelligence) but on the other hand we have show daenerys who is just flat. Book daenerys is difficult to read through but she didn't deserve what happened to her in the show. I don't have an answer. The show has been dumbed down a lot and no doubt it's biggest flaw. The books themselves are a golden spot in an age of flat stories. They still don't change the tropes like some readers claim. I am on mobile or I would type more into it.

I can't disagree on the medium. Business wise this is will be hbos greatest return. It reaches across cultures and it provides a fresh outlook on the fantasy story. How the show will be remembered by book readers is something else entirely and we will be at odds with show watchers forever. The drama was overwhelming in season 5 and it was all really forced creating a very negative energy for people who are fans moving forward. I have more to add and I will do so later.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

Yes I agree with you, I think above all GoT is by far the best fantasy tv series there has ever been, its really incredible entertainment and an achievement. Its not perfect and has lots of flaws and intense book readers hate it. But they would always hate it, because that version simply wouldn't get made ever. 

[Khione]

 

 

S6 is going to be nothing like TWOW. I would put $1000 on 90% of the season being a completely different version. Especially with what happens with Jon. 

Hopefully. Would hate to have Jon run around inside an animal for an entire season. How boring, for a visual medium, would that be? (wouldn't be able to hear his thoughts after all) Not to mention corny (not big on the whole warging stuff tbh) and logistically/financially/narratively exhausting. GRRM can place him in Ghost for like 90% of his potential arc in TWOW, but for the show to work it has to have different standards. It needs pay off (something Martin's not fond of), and for specific storylines not to be dragged out for unbearably long periods of time. 

[Marcus Agrippa]

Yes I agree with you, I think above all GoT is by far the best fantasy tv series there has ever been, its really incredible entertainment and an achievement. Its not perfect and has lots of flaws and intense book readers hate it. But they would always hate it, because that version simply wouldn't get made ever.

Where I hate it because of character reduction- I understand it's value. The show will hopefully push fantasy forward and that is a massive achievement that nobody seems to appreciate. Fantasy has become stale since lotr and this was needed.

[LadyFitzRandolph]

A thread about the spoilers regarding Jon at the WOTW site would be great.

[JonSnowed]

Well it looks as though Brienne may be staying the North as she's just confirmed a 3 day fighting sequence which I assume is the Jon/Umbers/Wildlings Vs Boltons battle in Episode 9.

 

In the same Interview Kit also confirms he's staying under contract until he's in his thirties.

[Grail King]

Sophie is now in Belfast:

 

Sophie spotted in Belfast, which I believe is her first time back since the middle of August: https://twitter.com/ShaneColeman07/status/643476784525275136

[jr8zeppelin]

Bruh if the Umbers rally around Sansa my life will be complete.

 

Ok, so... Season 1 episode 9: Huge death in the form of Ned. Unexpected.

 

Season 2 episode 9: Fully focused on the Battle at Blackwater

 

Season 3 episode 9: Red Wedding. Unexpected.

 

Season 4 episode 9: Battle at Castle Black.

 

Season 5 episode 9: Unexpected attack of the Harpies... no big deaths except for Shireen

 

Season 6 episode 9:.. Another fully focused battle? Either the Umbers attacking the Boltons or Euron invading the Reach?

 

Thoughts?

[Grail King]

WOTW just post spoilers:

Jon and Sansa are together,but!

 

 

 

[MoreOrLess]

Thats why I'm not surprised when someone thinks that Stannis was a villain, because those people are probably not used to nuance and want to pigeon hole characters they see readily into little boxes. And yes Varys often comes across as a good guy, but I think we'd all be incredibly foolish to think that was how he'd stay by the end of the show.

Were still having this debate I see?

Once again for me Stannis seems like an odd character to be critical of in this reguard as for me he's probably the best example of a "shade of grey" on the show thus far even if he's been pushed a bit more towards the evil side. If you wanted to be critical I think you could point to many other characters before Stannis in terms of either white or black washing.

Indeed a lot of the debate to me seems not to be lamenting the loss to a shade of grey in Stannis but lamenting the loss of a character posters view as a hero, albeit a very pragmatic one.

My guess is that the big issue the show had is that they did not believe they could run the Stannis AND the Riverlands both due to things becoming too cluttered and the cost of running multiple large scale sets(Stannis plot moves from mostly indoor scenes to a large scale camp). So rather than getting bits of Stannis and the Riverlands over two seasons we get all of Stannis attacking Winterfell(even if he does return I think his plot will shift into a different story) in one season and then all of the Riverlands in the next.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

Oh god, the forum change is doing a good job of opening old wounds!