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Is Young Griff really Aegon?


Rickyhunt

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There is foreshadowing. Baby Aegon's face is unrecognizable. When Theon and Reek want to make it thought Bran and Rickon are dead, they cut off the two farmers's boys faces. Also, when KL might be under attack, Tyrion and Cersei send Tommen away and in the event of a defeat, he's to dye his hair and be ward to a hedge knight (Cersei might actually have got this idea from Varys if Varys had already done it with Aegon).

Despite this, I'm not convinced. Someone has to be the 'mummer's dragon', which might mean a fake dragon. Also, Illyrio's sentiments about the boy seem suspect. Over and above everything else, the reveal came out of nowhere it felt like. Perhaps I just felt it was too late to introduce such a major character with so little lead up. It felt too contrived.
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He is, or at least he believes he is tje real thing, he was raised believing his father was Rhaegar Targaryen, and one of Rhaegar's closest friends is his protector, i have say it before, i dont think we will ever know for sure if the was a Blackfyre conspiracy or not, that will be left to us the readers to rumage
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Mummer's dragon is the name of a specific stage prop, the HotU vision actually shows one, and it's a stretch to suggest that it's just some kind of lame wordplay.

 

Why on earth, however, does anyone think Quaithe and the Undying are infallible, benevolent and trustworthy? The author repeatedly makes a point of prophecy being a dangerous thing to rely on.

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Mummer's dragon is the name of a specific stage prop, the HotU vision actually shows one, and it's a stretch to suggest that it's just some kind of lame wordplay.
 
Why on earth, however, does anyone think Quaithe and the Undying are infallible, benevolent and trustworthy? The author repeatedly makes a point of prophecy being a dangerous thing to rely on.


I agree but it seems more to be the interpretation of prophecy that's unreliable not the prophecy itself as symbolic avatar. When someone tries to interpret a prophecy in the novel we should all be on the alert.
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Mummer's dragon is the name of a specific stage prop, the HotU vision actually shows one, and it's a stretch to suggest that it's just some kind of lame wordplay.

 

Why on earth, however, does anyone think Quaithe and the Undying are infallible, benevolent and trustworthy? The author repeatedly makes a point of prophecy being a dangerous thing to rely on.

Quaithe doesn't prophesy, she tells Dany what she sees at that moment.  Big difference.  And so far she's been right on the money with everything she's said.  Until she gets something wrong, I'm keeping her slightly on the trustworthy side of the board.

 

Good point about the Undying.  They're nasty little buggers.

 

 

He is real until the author shows him to be fake 

This.

 

 

There is foreshadowing. Baby Aegon's face is unrecognizable. When Theon and Reek want to make it thought Bran and Rickon are dead, they cut off the two farmers's boys faces. Also, when KL might be under attack, Tyrion and Cersei send Tommen away and in the event of a defeat, he's to dye his hair and be ward to a hedge knight (Cersei might actually have got this idea from Varys if Varys had already done it with Aegon).

Despite this, I'm not convinced. Someone has to be the 'mummer's dragon', which might mean a fake dragon. Also, Illyrio's sentiments about the boy seem suspect. Over and above everything else, the reveal came out of nowhere it felt like. Perhaps I just felt it was too late to introduce such a major character with so little lead up. It felt too contrived.

Don't forget that Varys had a full staff of people and a castle filled with secret passages and such, and overseas contacts, and Jon Snow pulled off a baby switch without nearly those resources. 

 

Yes and someone has to be a Blackfyre, but it doesn't have to be Aegon.

 

Just because he's a Targ (or Blackfyre) doesn't mean he's a major character.  Real or fake, Aegon exists solely for the benefit of the other characters in the story. Varys and LF will go head to head at some point, and this would be a good reason.  Dany will have to decide whether or not he's her nephew.  Arianne and her father will choose which way to go based on the impression she gets of Aegon.  Tyrion is going to play with this to his best advantage.  Jon may have a brother!  Sansa could end up married to the guy.  He may have a fling with Elia Sand (especially if he marries Sansa).  Stannis will have to decide whether he should give way to Rhaegar's son.  It's all about everybody else.  Aegon himself just has to stand there and let them dance around him.  I imagine his death will be huge too, especially for Dany who may be a bit more willing to believe someone is her brother's son if she kills Aegon and then learns he was the real deal.  And of course we have the dragons.  Can he ride one or will he get roasted?  

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Mummer's dragon is the name of a specific stage prop, the HotU vision actually shows one, and it's a stretch to suggest that it's just some kind of lame wordplay.

 

Why on earth, however, does anyone think Quaithe and the Undying are infallible, benevolent and trustworthy? The author repeatedly makes a point of prophecy being a dangerous thing to rely on.

 

The HOTU also showed Stannis without a shadow. Yet Stannis very much has a shadow, and a very powerful one at that. And he had a red sword when Lightbringer actually is all the colors of fire. So the visions are wrong in a lot of ways.

 

Everyone's always looked at the mummer's dragon vision and declared it to mean that there's a fake dragon. Yet it seems far more likely that there's a mummer's dragon because people are celebrating the return of the dragons. That's how I always interpreted the mummer's dragon vision; that Dany or Aegon ascends the throne and people rejoice that the dragons are back. The mummer's dragon is a representation of the dragons coming back in power and the people rejoicing in celebration. Which if you actually read the description of the vision that's what's shown

 

 

A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd.

 

It's Dany who declares it a mummer's dragon. People are running their theories on Aegon being a fake based off Dany declaring the vision being about a fake dragon. Yet the vision is about people who made a dragon for their festivities. So the vision works far better as showing that Dany or Aegon ascended the throne, then that there's going to be a fake dragon.

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The HOTU also showed Stannis without a shadow. Yet Stannis very much has a shadow, and a very powerful one at that. And he had a red sword when Lightbringer actually is all the colors of fire. So the visions are wrong in a lot of ways.
 


Not since he got a piece of red head pie, and got her a shadow baby, where do you think it came from?
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Honestly, are you for real? :dunno:

 

Very real. Stannis not having a shadow doesn't make any sense at all in any interpretation of Stannis having had assassins made out of his shadow. Stannis' shadow kills people. Stannis should be casting a very large and powerful shadow in a vision that wishes to showcase his shadow powered assassins seeing as that's what his is. You can't reconcile Stannis not casting a shadow, with Stannis actually having a shadow that fucking kills people. It does not make any sense.

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Very real. Stannis not having a shadow doesn't make any sense at all in any interpretation of Stannis having had assassins made out of his shadow. Stannis' shadow kills people. Stannis should be casting a very large and powerful shadow in a vision that wishes to showcase his shadow powered assassins seeing as that's what his is. You can't reconcile Stannis not casting a shadow, with Stannis actually having a shadow that fucking kills people. It does not make any sense.

The vision was before Stannis gave up his shadow to kill renly, that's the reason he couldn't sent more shadow babies to kill the rest of the 'usurpers'.. The vision served its purpose, it foreshadowed the importance of Stannis shadow in the wars to come, he killed the most powerful king in TWOT5K just by getting laid with a shadowbinder
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Quaithe doesn't prophesy, she tells Dany what she sees at that moment.  Big difference.  And so far she's been right on the money with everything she's said.  Until she gets something wrong, I'm keeping her slightly on the trustworthy side of the board.
 
Good point about the Undying.  They're nasty little buggers.
 
 
This.
 
 
Don't forget that Varys had a full staff of people and a castle filled with secret passages and such, and overseas contacts, and Jon Snow pulled off a baby switch without nearly those resources. 
 
Yes and someone has to be a Blackfyre, but it doesn't have to be Aegon.
 
Just because he's a Targ (or Blackfyre) doesn't mean he's a major character.  Real or fake, Aegon exists solely for the benefit of the other characters in the story. Varys and LF will go head to head at some point, and this would be a good reason.  Dany will have to decide whether or not he's her nephew.  Arianne and her father will choose which way to go based on the impression she gets of Aegon.  Tyrion is going to play with this to his best advantage.  Jon may have a brother!  Sansa could end up married to the guy.  He may have a fling with Elia Sand (especially if he marries Sansa).  Stannis will have to decide whether he should give way to Rhaegar's son.  It's all about everybody else.  Aegon himself just has to stand there and let them dance around him.  I imagine his death will be huge too, especially for Dany who may be a bit more willing to believe someone is her brother's son if she kills Aegon and then learns he was the real deal.  And of course we have the dragons.  Can he ride one or will he get roasted?  


Roasted!
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The vision was before Stannis gave up his shadow to kill renly, that's the reason he couldn't sent more shadow babies to kill the rest of the 'usurpers'.. The vision served its purpose, it foreshadowed the importance of Stannis shadow in the wars to come, he killed the most powerful king in TWOT5K just by getting laid with a shadowbinder

 

No everything happens in ACOK. Renly dies in chapter 33. Cortnay dies in chapter 42. Dany has her vision of Stannis in chapter 48. Stannis had already killed Renly and Cortnay when Dany receives her vision

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No everything happens in ACOK. Renly dies in chapter 33. Cortnay dies in chapter 42. Dany has her vision of Stannis in chapter 48. Stannis had already killed Renly and Cortnay when Dany receives her vision


Yes i realized my mistake, i edited the post, well then count it as way to tell Dany what was going on, she had visions of the past, present and future...
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