Refugee Crisis 2 - a warm welcome in Germany

[Eyron]

Regarding the name, the correct name is Alan, not Aylan. The latter is the name the Turkish authorities had him registered as, but that's only because they insist on using Turkish spelling, refusing to recognise that there are such a thing as a Kurdish language.

Ok, I thought it was a fault of the more common variety, like my name for example. It has three spellings in our own alphabet (i, j and y are interchangeable) and it still sounds the same.

[Enguerrand]

Janusz Korwin-Mikke Polish EU parliamentarian explaining why Poland has no problem with immigration.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YTe5YNHBQA

 

The look on their faces.

[Ramsay Gimp]

Janusz Korwin-Mikke Polish EU parliamentarian explaining why Poland has no problem with immigration.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YTe5YNHBQA

 

The look on their faces.

 

:eek:  Damn. Talk about a mic-drop

[polishgenius]

Why is it that consistent embarrassments so often get nominated to represent their country in the EP, presenting the nation to the world? Like, the UK had Nick Griffin for a while, Poland has this berk (I've had a quick read up on him and he really is a despicable fuck if it's at all accurate)...

[Tijgy]

The EU will have a press conference on 22.00 in a few minutes: http://video.consilium.europa.eu/webcast.aspx?ticket=775-979-16310 (Actually now)

 

(We do have a lot of Polish immigrants in Belgium. The problem is not that they do not work but that they work under better social security conditions (I think) for the employers.  :rolleyes: But I think you are not supposed to say.

[Enguerrand]

 

Your statistic is both misleading and outdated in that it only shows positive decisions from last year.

 

Problems:

 

Due to the large number of applicants the asylum system is completely overrun, of over 200 000 refugees only half had a decision.

 

Of these 100 000 decisions 60 000 were negative but only 11 000 were deported. The rest is still in the appeals process or is being tolerated because the home country is not cooperating or on humanitarian or medical grounds.

 

This year it will be a four-fold increase, at least.

 

I don't see the misleading part those are eurostats number from 2014, last year. You don't think tons of people appeal the process and fight deportation in Sweden too? If you have a source for better statistics please share.

As far as I know Germany must take in 5 times the number of immigrants to match the burden a Swede shoulders for their immigration policy (and this was before the current refugee crisis, currently they are breaking all previous records) About a fifth of the population in Sweden are born or descended from Africa and the Middle east now. Sweden is simply in a league of it's own.

It's like the US crowing about giving the most money in foreign aid, ignoring the size of the country, while per capita it's pittance compared to many smaller countries.

[Eyron]

(We do have a lot of Polish immigrants in Belgium. The problem is not that they do not work but that they work under better social security conditions (I think) for the employers.  :rolleyes: But I think you are not supposed to say.

The only issue that's been on the table about the Polish workers here has been that they were grossly underpayed thanks to shitty contractors, and contractors with wage policies for their national employees, but hiring subcontractors in several steps until the trail was almost impossible to trace to employ Polish employees for something like half the wage. They are welcome to work here, and they should have equal pay for it, for themselves to be able to live a life here and for their colleagues in the business who need a living wage.

[HobbsTuna]

 

I don't see the misleading part those are eurostats number from 2014, last year. You don't think tons of people appeal the process and fight deportation in Sweden too? If you have a source for better statistics please share.

 

I guess they might. Of course if you would look at your own source you could see that the Swedes have a far higher percentage of positive decisions, meaning there just will be fewer people in the appeals process. 77 % for Sweden, 42 % for Germany. So assuming Sweden deports the same percentage as Germany, the per capita numbers would increase by 20 to 25 % for Sweden and more than double for Germany.

 

Reading helps. Try it.

 

Regarding the backlog, I'm not actually sure. The swedes might have one, too. Why don't you tell me?

[aeu]

Just thought I'd point out that despite the lies of the media, Saudi Arabia is at the forefront of accepting refugees. It's accepted 2.5 million since the war started, 500,000 of which are still there, many of which are receiving free healthcare and education. Plus it's raised over $700 million dollars in aid.

http://www.arabnews.com/columns/news/804116

 

Does the article say any of the bolded part?

[baxus]

Janusz Korwin-Mikke Polish EU parliamentarian explaining why Poland has no problem with immigration.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YTe5YNHBQA

 

The look on their faces.

 

I don't even know where to start on why this guy is wrong.

Let's just say that the only thing I find more insane than saying that all refugees are just after welfare checks is his saying that welfare should be cancelled.

 

Why is it that consistent embarrassments so often get nominated to represent their country in the EP, presenting the nation to the world? Like, the UK had Nick Griffin for a while, Poland has this berk (I've had a quick read up on him and he really is a despicable fuck if it's at all accurate)...

 

Witnessing who we have in our national parliament, I dread the day when Serbia joins EU and we get to send our representatives to European parliament.

[Biglose]

Janusz Korwin-Mikke Polish EU parliamentarian explaining why Poland has no problem with immigration.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YTe5YNHBQA

 

The look on their faces.

Ok, but it may be fair to say (or to be more precise in the sense of fairness it should be added) that this guy is very much on the fringe in Poland.

[Falcon2908]

RIP germany

long live Germanistan

[Hereward]

Congratulations, an early contender for stupidest statement of the day. Don't get cocky though, the Americans haven't even got up yet.

[Enguerrand]

I don't get why the systemic madness behind this crisis isn't addressed. Germany and Sweden offer generous benefits to the immigrants who manage to run the gauntlet to their countries, but offer no aid and make it as hard as possible for refugees to get there. This way their politicians can pretend to be humanitarian superpowers without paying the price for it. Instead it is the poorer European buffer states like Greece, Italy Hungary that have to deal with the hundred of thousands of refugees and corpses created by the generous promises of the North, refugees who have are desperate to leave those countries.
If the humanitarian super powers simply required and allowed people to request asylum at their embassies and consulates in the third world, these human waves washing over Italy and Greece would cease.

 

It's like some kind of giant Iron man death race, Germany will take in the first  800 thousand contestants that can make it to their boarders without being registered in some transit country, selling their cars and houses to buy passage by smugglers, not drowning in the Aegean sea. surviving rape and milita in Libya, evading balkan boarder patrols and negotiating Hungarian fences and walls. But prizes only for the first 800000, if you are too slow well second prize is living on scraps in a refugee camp in the poor south.  Everyone understand the rules? Good, Now Ready Set Go.

[Prince Alexander]

 

I don't even know where to start on why this guy is wrong.

Let's just say that the only thing I find more insane than saying that all refugees are just after welfare checks is his saying that welfare should be cancelled.

 

 

Witnessing who we have in our national parliament, I dread the day when Serbia joins EU and we get to send our representatives to European parliament.

 

He is absolutely after being scandalous and causing a reaction (as politicians mostly are), but he is not without base for his statements

 

1. the most vulnerable refugees are left behind. we're not saving dying women and children, we're saving able, strong men

2. a large % of refugees ARE targetting EU states with largest welfare (this is called asylum shopping). they are not running from war, they are running after better material living - let's be clear and honest about this.

3. the EU states on the way to target locations are being FUCKED, as typical of EU big boys taking advantage of newer, smaller nations (mostly eastern and southern europe)

[Tijgy]

I don't get why the systemic madness behind this crisis isn't addressed. Germany and Sweden offer generous benefits to the immigrants who manage to run the gauntlet to their countries, but offer no aid and make it as hard as possible for refugees to get there. This way their politicians can pretend to be humanitarian superpowers without paying the price for it. Instead it is the poorer European buffer states like Greece, Italy Hungary that have to deal with the hundred of thousands of refugees and corpses created by the generous promises of the North, refugees who have are desperate to leave those countries.
If the humanitarian super powers simply required and allowed people to request asylum at their embassies and consulates in the third world, these human waves washing over Italy and Greece would cease.

 

It's like some kind of giant Iron man death race, Germany will take in the first  800 thousand contestants that can make it to their boarders without being registered in some transit country, selling their cars and houses to buy passage by smugglers, not drowning in the Aegean sea. surviving rape and milita in Libya, evading balkan boarder patrols and negotiating Hungarian fences and walls. But prizes only for the first 800000, if you are too slow well second prize is living on scraps in a refugee camp in the poor south.  Everyone understand the rules? Good, Now Ready Set Go.

 

I agree with you. Now, everyone do understand Germany's decision. I understand why Bavaria is in fact no too happy with the decision of Merkel to say "you are welcome in Germany; we will set aside Dublin for now". And now, because they cannot handle logistically anymore, they have now again border controls. (They do however still accept the refugees and they are brought to Germany, I think). Technically, Cameron is indeed right to take the refugees from camps in the regions (over the number you can discuss but it is the right way).

 

And they say now they want to impose financial sanctions on the Eastern European countries (I think they mean to stop the European help they receive? LOL, if the flemish nationalists says something about the transfers from Flanders to Brussels and Wallonia, they are called directly to have a lack of solidarity).  

 

Do they mean they will impose those sanction if those countries still say no in october? Or do they mean they will impose them if they do not execute the voted plans. LOL, the first one would show a total lack of respect towards democracy I believe and the EU is really the plaything of Germany aka Merkel and France aka Hollande. To make sure the decisions have formally legitimacy in all countries, they are actually ensuring the decisions have de facto no legitimacy.  And then they wonder why at last election the critics of the EU gained so many votes. Europe is really become an institution that is so fucked up like the Belgian institutions. 

 

EDIT: And it is not like EU citizens themselves have so many social rights in other member States than their own national state: 

http://www.gva.be/cnt/dmf20150915_01867634/eu-burgers-die-in-andere-lidstaat-werk-zoeken-kunnen-sociale-bijstand-kwijtraken?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=dlvrit&utm_campaign=feed.

[baxus]

1. the most vulnerable refugees are left behind. we're not saving dying women and children, we're saving able, strong men

2. a large % of refugees ARE targetting EU states with largest welfare (this is called asylum shopping). they are not running from war, they are running after better material living - let's be clear and honest about this.

3. the EU states on the way to target locations are being FUCKED, as typical of EU big boys taking advantage of newer, smaller nations (mostly eastern and southern europe)

 

We've already been over this but let's go again - refugees are fleeing war zones and, for various reasons are trying to get into Western/Northern Europe.

Sure, there will be some who will apply for welfare, but there are those who won't. I can't talk about percentage on that, because I don't have the data on current immigrants welfare application rate and I'm not clairvoyant to know what will happen with these refugees.

Is it a surprise to anyone that most of the refugees are trying to get to Germany? German economy is the strongest in Europe or at least it's perceived as the strongest one. Does it not stand to reason that refugees think they'll find a job more likely there than in some less developed country of the EU?

Plus, I'm certain that some of those refugees have friends and family who have already migrated to EU countries who may help them get their lives together.

 

Saying that all refugees would apply for welfare and that they are not actually running away from war is simply incorrect.

[Biglose]

I don't get why the systemic madness behind this crisis isn't addressed. Germany and Sweden offer generous benefits to the immigrants who manage to run the gauntlet to their countries, but offer no aid and make it as hard as possible for refugees to get there. This way their politicians can pretend to be humanitarian superpowers without paying the price for it. Instead it is the poorer European buffer states like Greece, Italy Hungary that have to deal with the hundred of thousands of refugees and corpses created by the generous promises of the North, refugees who have are desperate to leave those countries.
If the humanitarian super powers simply required and allowed people to request asylum at their embassies and consulates in the third world, these human waves washing over Italy and Greece would cease.

 

It's like some kind of giant Iron man death race, Germany will take in the first  800 thousand contestants that can make it to their boarders without being registered in some transit country, selling their cars and houses to buy passage by smugglers, not drowning in the Aegean sea. surviving rape and milita in Libya, evading balkan boarder patrols and negotiating Hungarian fences and walls. But prizes only for the first 800000, if you are too slow well second prize is living on scraps in a refugee camp in the poor south.  Everyone understand the rules? Good, Now Ready Set Go.

Really? Because can you see Obama going to say: Immigrants are bad and muslim immigrants are worse?

So no, it is not a surprise that things are like they are, and it is not a surprise that merkel acted like she acted (she probably did not really attribute for the power of social media and meant it as a massege for germany internally, now that I come to think of it).

Do you really think any major leftist newspaper will show any kind of good will towards the anit-refugee allures from much of europe? Espacially in the united states? They could just go ahead and name Trump their next president if they did.

Because lets just be honest, what you suggest and what Tijgy is suggesting: [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmKpRdTc0g4[/url] and maybe a HUGHE, BEAUTIFUL GATE.

 

How to square that circle?  Mkay guys, we now found out that muslims are bad, mkay? But mexicans are good, mkay? Thats not racism, that science, mkay.

What you want is nothing short of the international media abandoning multiculturalism and knighting xenophobia. Yeah, thats going to happen.

 

What should they say? Germany, please take in everybody from the middle east, so the rest does not have to deal with it and please keep sending money to greece and the eastern europeen states? Really?

Or should they say: Germany, please treat those arriving worse. Look, what if instead of greating them with food and cheers you send some nazis, you know just to beat them a bit.

Or just use them as slaves, do not give them free money food is enough.

Or germany, remember 1933? Yeah, be a bit more like that.

 

The point is the people are coming with boats and they will continue coming with boats. Simply because an embasy is not a fucking teleporter. Lets say germany opens up the possibility to ask directly. The only people I see to have a real chance would be alevites, christians and jesidi. All other would be sunnits in a sunni majority country were it is safe enough to run a freaking embassy/refugee camp. I am not saying, that we should not do it. It would certainly be a good thing to do. But there is a difference between waiting 6 month in a refugee camp and if the result is negative you do not have any other option or to be in germany where you just have to doge deportation and you can basically stay (and you will have a lot of support in doing that from several kinds of NGO for example proasyl). So it would not stop people from talking their chance.

 

So the only thing one could do is have the EU pay for camps at the border countries, arrest people smugglers and inforce naval patrols and drag the boats back.

And really, you wonder why nobody in the US (lets be honest thats the major western media complex) supports that publicly ?

 

So what you ask them to demand from germany is basically scrap german asylum law and invest in building walls and secure the external europeen borders. That might be a smart move, but you would be crucified for saying that (unless you are fox news then it is expected...).

[Hayyoth]

Really? Because can you see Obama going to say: Immigrants are bad and muslim immigrants are worse?

So no, it is not a surprise that things are like they are, and it is not a surprise that merkel acted like she acted (she probably did not really attribute for the power of social media and meant it as a massege for germany internally, now that I come to think of it).

Do you really think any major leftist newspaper will show any kind of good will towards the anit-refugee allures from much of europe? Espacially in the united states? They could just go ahead and name Trump their next president if they did.

Because lets just be honest, what you suggest and what Tijgy is suggesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmKpRdTc0g4 and maybe a HUGHE, BEAUTIFUL GATE.

 

How to square that circle?  Mkay guys, we now found out that muslims are bad, mkay? But mexicans are good, mkay? Thats not racism, that science, mkay.

What you want is nothing short of the international media abandoning multiculturalism and knighting xenophobia. Yeah, thats going to happen.

 

What should they say? Germany, please take in everybody from the middle east, so the rest does not have to deal with it and please keep sending money to greece and the eastern europeen states? Really?

Or should they say: Germany, please treat those arriving worse. Look, what if instead of greating them with food and cheers you send some nazis, you know just to beat them a bit.

Or just use them as slaves, do not give them free money food is enough.

Or germany, remember 1933? Yeah, be a bit more like that.

 

The point is the people are coming with boats and they will continue coming with boats. Simply because an embasy is not a fucking teleporter. Lets say germany opens up the possibility to ask directly. The only people I see to have a real chance would be alevites, christians and jesidi. All other would be sunnits in a sunni majority country were it is safe enough to run a freaking embassy/refugee camp. I am not saying, that we should not do it. It would certainly be a good thing to do. But there is a difference between waiting 6 month in a refugee camp and if the result is negative you do not have any other option or to be in germany where you just have to doge deportation and you can basically stay (and you will have a lot of support in doing that from several kinds of NGO for example proasyl). So it would not stop people from talking their chance.

 

So the only thing one could do is have the EU pay for camps at the border countries, arrest people smugglers and inforce naval patrols and drag the boats back.

And really, you wonder why nobody in the US (lets be honest thats the major western media complex) supports that publicly ?

 

So what you ask them to demand from germany is basically scrap german asylum law and invest in building walls and secure the external europeen borders. That might be a smart move, but you would be crucified for saying that (unless you are fox news then it is expected...).

If the elites in the European capitals wanted to turn back the invading tide they could, but they won't. Soon a quarter of Sweden's population will be foreign born Muslims, most holding cultural beliefs which will be (and are) transformative to that society. The coming events are obvious, either the immigration problem will be dealt with in a sensible way or there will be utter chaos and far right political forces will come to power.

[Wise Fool]

If the elites in the European capitals wanted to turn back the invading tide they could, but they won't. Soon a quarter of Sweden's population will be foreign born Muslims, most holding cultural beliefs which will be (and are) transformative to that society. The coming events are obvious, either the immigration problem will be dealt with in a sensible way or there will be utter chaos and far right political forces will come to power.

Let's not pretend that far-right extremists coming to power in Europe doesn't make you wet your pants, Trolly McTrolls-A-Lot.