Channel4s-JonSnow Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Again - how can you say that when Jaime in the Riverlands works just fine in the books? I think it's very naive of you to believe that this was planned. They were convinced by the HBO execs to go for an extra season so now they're back tracking and covering previously cut material to kill time. And it's not like he was doing anything in Dorne. I'd much rather they'd kept him in KL, showing his relationship with Cersei deteriorate and then send him off to the Riverlands near the end of the season. Because actually it doesn't work fine in the books at all. Its a totally disconnected story. Those problems would be amplified considerably in a tv format, where patience is lower and people have to wait a year for the next season. You can't keep saying 'it works fine in the books', when it either doesn't or simply wouldn't translate to a tv format in the same way. On some level you have to try and get over the book love and think realistically. Dorne is an absolutely disconnected storyline, it has zero relevance for the rest of the plot and the characters. At least Stannis invaded KL in season 2 and affected the main story. The Dorne storyline would get to episode ten having viewers scratching their heads as to why they watched any of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTowerOfJoy Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Because actually it doesn't work fine in the books at all. Its a totally disconnected story. Those problems would be amplified considerably in a tv format, where patience is lower and people have to wait a year for the next season. You can't keep saying 'it works fine in the books', when it either doesn't or simply wouldn't translate to a tv format in the same way. On some level you have to try and get over the book love and think realistically. Dorne is an absolutely disconnected storyline, it has zero relevance for the rest of the plot and the characters. At least Stannis invaded KL in season 2 and affected the main story. The Dorne storyline would get to episode ten having viewers scratching their heads as to why they watched any of that. While I agree somewhat on Jaime's trip to the Riverlands which seems to have primarily been there to waste time while Brienne wastes time travelling around the Riverlands and to get them both to a point that Lady Stoneheart can catch them. But I think we'll actually see some of that this season anyways. As for Dorne and Aegon though, I think you've missed the mark. I expect Aegon to do some significant damage, much like Stannis's invasion in season 2 actually, and I think there's at least a decent chance that Dorne will initially be along for the ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farerb Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 While I agree somewhat on Jaime's trip to the Riverlands which seems to have primarily been there to waste time while Brienne wastes time travelling around the Riverlands and to get them both to a point that Lady Stoneheart can catch them. But I think we'll actually see some of that this season anyways. As for Dorne and Aegon though, I think you've missed the mark. I expect Aegon to do some significant damage, much like Stannis's invasion in season 2 actually, and I think there's at least a decent chance that Dorne will initially be along for the ride. So what would you cut in order to have Aegon and Arianne? That includes season 5 onward. Not just season 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protar Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Because actually it doesn't work fine in the books at all. Its a totally disconnected story. Those problems would be amplified considerably in a tv format, where patience is lower and people have to wait a year for the next season. You can't keep saying 'it works fine in the books', when it either doesn't or simply wouldn't translate to a tv format in the same way. On some level you have to try and get over the book love and think realistically. Dorne is an absolutely disconnected storyline, it has zero relevance for the rest of the plot and the characters. At least Stannis invaded KL in season 2 and affected the main story. The Dorne storyline would get to episode ten having viewers scratching their heads as to why they watched any of that. It just baffles me that people consider Dorne disconnected. By the end of ADWD The Sand Snakes are off to KL and Arianne is off to see Aegon. It's not Martin's fault if you don't understand how narrative works. An author simply doesn't spend that much time on a plot and that obviously telegraph its future importance without it actually being important. If they'd written the characters well, they wouldn't have needed a bridge character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 you just answered your own point, by the end of two books of Dorne story there is a suspicion they might affect the overall plot. That's it. That's all there is. They do little else and are absolutely separate from every other storyline happening at the time Also with aegon not in it they are even less relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protar Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 you just answered your own point, by the end of two books of Dorne story there is a suspicion they might affect the overall plot. That's it. That's all there is. They do little else and are absolutely separate from every other storyline happening at the time Also with aegon not in it they are even less relevant. No, there isn't a "suspicion". Martin very obviously telegraphs it. He may as well have left a note at the end of Feast/Dance saying "Dorne will be important." Again - you just don't have any understanding of narrative structure. That's not Martin's problem. And also, seeing as Feast and Dance are mostly chronological, saying that it's taken them two books to start impacting the plot is a pretty misleading statement, technically true though it is. And besides, even in Feast they're pretty closely connected to the main plot seeing as the heir to the throne is involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTowerOfJoy Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 So what would you cut in order to have Aegon and Arianne? That includes season 5 onward. Not just season 5. I would have replaced almost all of what they did with Dorne, and done Trystane as Aegon as I posted above. I honestly don't think it would have added much screen time to Dorne, it would have just been much better spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farerb Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 I would have replaced almost all of what they did with Dorne, and done Trystane as Aegon as I posted above. I honestly don't think it would have added much screen time to Dorne, it would have just been much better spent.You don't take into consideration the next 3 seasons, when they need to complete all the storylines and you have 2 books + to adapt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTowerOfJoy Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 You don't take into consideration the next 3 seasons, when they need to complete all the storylines and you have 2 books + to adapt. But those books contain the resolution for the Aegon storyline. I'm not inventing storyline's with my approach, I'm just bringing a story line from the books to the show editing it down to it's raw storyline, and making time already spent in Dorne not wasted and actually go somewhere. You can't have it both ways saying that you have two books to adapt, and not include a storyline that is in said books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 You can't have it both ways saying that you have two books to adapt, and not include a storyline that is in said books. You can if you've seen the outline for those books and have decided that the storyline in fact wasn't all that vital to the overall plot, and if you had to remove someone to make space, it could be them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ghost of Someone Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 It probably comes down to how many seasons did they Think they were going to do versus how many are they really going to do. There has to be some things they may have done and will do differently. Arianne may have been or will be one of them. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Writhen Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 They could still include her, if they creatively wanted to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTowerOfJoy Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 You can if you've seen the outline for those books and have decided that the storyline in fact wasn't all that vital to the overall plot, and if you had to remove someone to make space, it could be them. I will admit that Jorah getting greyscale would indicate that the only thing that Aegon brings to the plot is that his companion (JonCon) brings greyscale (thus when Dany comes, whatever the purpose of Connington's greyscale will be accomplished by Jorah's instead). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyat>Daenerys Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Why are people trying to justify anything to channel4jonsnow? He has made his position perfectly clear a number of times. Anything that is cut = unimportant. Everything that is different = better then in the books. Everything that is bad and illogical = good TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Why are people trying to justify anything to channel4jonsnow? He has made his position perfectly clear a number of times. Anything that is cut = unimportant. Everything that is different = better then in the books. Everything that is bad and illogical = good TV. I could misrepresent your opinions just as easily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTowerOfJoy Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Why are people trying to justify anything to channel4jonsnow? He has made his position perfectly clear a number of times. Anything that is cut = unimportant. Everything that is different = better then in the books. Everything that is bad and illogical = good TV. Surely no one thought that Dorne was "good TV" this year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lsdjesus Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 They could still include her, if they creatively wanted to. And it wouldn't even be surprising. As I've said earlier, they've been very quiet on the matter, while I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) they confirmed in interviews that Willas and Garlan Tyrell were cut. And considering Doran's plan in the book involved hidden progeny... And considering many characters were introduced later in the show than they were in the book... That being said, I wouldn't be surprised either if she were indeed cut. Crackpot theory: Griff and Aegon could be introduced via Arya's storyline, posing as actors rather than mercenaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Crackpot theory: Griff and Aegon could be introduced via Arya's storyline, posing as actors rather than mercenaries. This is possible, seeing how many stories there seem to be about the 'Theatre Troupe' being cast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ghost of Someone Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 And it wouldn't even be surprising. As I've said earlier, they've been very quiet on the matter, while I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) they confirmed in interviews that Willas and Garlan Tyrell were cut. And considering Doran's plan in the book involved hidden progeny... And considering many characters were introduced later in the show than they were in the book... That being said, I wouldn't be surprised either if she were indeed cut. Crackpot theory: Griff and Aegon could be introduced via Arya's storyline, posing as actors rather than mercenaries. I am holding out hope that they might but then the Varys storyline might be clouded. The show would have us believe to this point that they were hoping for (Varys and Illyrio) that Dany and a Dothraki Horselord would invade and conquer the 7 kingdoms. The same Dothraki horselord that proclaimed to Dany's delight that they would kill the armored men/steel men, RAPE THEIR WOMEN and take the IRON CHAIR. That would be bad writing indeed. I am holding out hope for an Aegon showing up in the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 This is possible, seeing how many stories there seem to be about the 'Theatre Troupe' being cast. Having just looked at photos of the Troupe.. I'm now not so sure. I am holding out hope that they might but then the Varys storyline might be clouded. The show would have us believe to this point that they were hoping for (Varys and Illyrio) that Dany and a Dothraki Horselord would invade and conquer the 7 kingdoms. The same Dothraki horselord that proclaimed to Dany's delight that they would kill the armored men/steel men, RAPE THEIR WOMEN and take the IRON CHAIR. That would be bad writing indeed. I am holding out hope for an Aegon showing up in the show. Really everyone is just guessing what effect all these characters are having in the next books and season, but nobody knows. Dany will surely get to Westeros, but is that at the head of a Dothraki Horde? I kind of doubt it really, the boat issue being a big one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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