Dating, race, and you.

[Littlefingers In The Air]

I was involved in an interesting conversation earlier about whether or not it's racist to exclude a race from your dating pool. Our dating and sexual choices are about a personal as it gets, and yet, human beings still want to be treated with dignity even when it's regarding your choices. I personally think it all depends on how you're communicating your preferences.

Last year, a woman excluded me from consideration because I'm not a skinny white guy. After deliberating on it in the dating thread, I ultimately decided I wasn't being singled out for my race; the lady was simply exercising her freedoms in full. However, had she said something to the effect of: "You're black, I don't date black people.", I may have ended up feeling very differently.

What say y'all, the hive mind?

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

It's really hard to disentangle sexual attraction from structural racism or subconscious prejudice, and for the individual, I'm not sure it's even worth it to try.

 

The genitals want what the genitals want.

[Iskaral Pust]

I've wondered about this several times.  Within-race coupling is socially dominant.  It could be attributed to who you tend to meet, shared culture & background, avoiding friction with family/friends (we all know some racists), but at least some of it must stem from personal preferences in sexual attraction even if it's only about norms absorbed during early childhood (e.g. how people look, act, dress; what roles they take in relationships).

 

I suspect that online dating services that allow or even require explicit filtering -- and with so many choices you need some filtering -- encourage people to crystallize vague preferences, which might then encourage them to retrospectively rationalize it and adopt it more strongly that initially felt.

 

I would not criticize someone for their sexual preference.  You cannot make yourself be attracted to someone you're not*, but I don't like that people use racial categories for this.  I don't like the idea of generalized categories at all, but race seems even more pernicious than expressing blanket preferences for, say, slimness, wealth/success, religion, etc.  But the fact that we do this suggests that race is still a common shorthand for a basket of attributes, physical and cultural -- the very definition of racism -- despite living in a more politically correct era.

 

 

*This also raises a question of whether we should expect everyone to be internally "comfortable" with people of other races, in addition to not acting or speaking in an overtly racist way?  Unstated discomfort with other races is the submerge 90% of the iceberg and is a major contributor to race segregation in America.

[Eponine]

I think that some preferences come from familiarity. I grew up in a very sheltered environment with almost all white people. IIRC, there was one other person in my 40 person graduating class who wasn't white - a Hispanic guy. There was an Asian guy in the class below mine and I wasn't attracted to him (I can't think of anyone in that class whom I did find attractive, he wasn't singled out. The things about him that I find unattractive are things that aren't tied to race and I wouldn't prefer in any other guy either). I can't remember a black guy in my whole school who was closer in age to me than 3-4 years younger (i.e. not in a teenage girl's dating pool). I think that it was partly as a result of this that upon leaving high school, I wouldn't have even thought to include any specifically non-Caucasian characteristics on any dating "wish list".

 

The only place I really saw anyone who wasn't white was in the mirror, and being a typical teenager, I found a lot to criticize in my own appearance. Unfortunately, the only Korean man I knew fairly well (through church) had a family structure that was the model of everything I did not want. This man's mother came and visited them for months at a time, and while she did, it was HER house. She got to boss his wife around the kitchen and criticize how she did things. And there was an attitude of this is just how things are in Korean culture (I don't know how universally true that is). I knew that was never going to be me. There would have been a double homicide. I was extremely turned off by the sample size of one. (Actually my sample size of two, because when I was born, gender selection was also a cultural thing, which is literally why I am an American).

 

I think that my mindset might easily have been very different if I'd been able to be around a much larger variety of non-white people and seen being around them as a normal part of life at a much earlier junction.

[Gneisenau]

What if a blind man has been happily dating and now married another man. But then, the blind man discovers his husband is black, and wants a divorce, would that be racist for him to divorce ?

[smegma]

I think there's a huge difference between "I find myself typically attracted to such-and-such race or ethnicity, but open to consider anyone" than "I won't date black guys" or "I only date white women". I have never been convinced that the latter is not rooted in some latent or overt racism. 

[Castel]

I think there's a huge difference between "I find myself typically attracted to such-and-such race or ethnicity, but open to consider anyone" than "I won't date black guys" or "I only date white women". I have never been convinced that the latter is not rooted in some latent or overt racism. 

 

What if you say it and never do it in practice? What if this is consistently the case across a particular area or social demographic? 

[Magnar of Skagos]

Not being attracted to a certain race is not racism.

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

I think that some preferences come from familiarity. I grew up in a very sheltered environment with almost all white people. IIRC, there was one other person in my 40 person graduating class who wasn't white - a Hispanic guy. There was an Asian guy in the class below mine and I wasn't attracted to him (I can't think of anyone in that class whom I did find attractive, he wasn't singled out. The things about him that I find unattractive are things that aren't tied to race and I wouldn't prefer in any other guy either). I can't remember a black guy in my whole school who was closer in age to me than 3-4 years younger (i.e. not in a teenage girl's dating pool). I think that it was partly as a result of this that upon leaving high school, I wouldn't have even thought to include any specifically non-Caucasian characteristics on any dating "wish list".

 

The only place I really saw anyone who wasn't white was in the mirror, and being a typical teenager, I found a lot to criticize in my own appearance. Unfortunately, the only Korean man I knew fairly well (through church) had a family structure that was the model of everything I did not want. This man's mother came and visited them for months at a time, and while she did, it was HER house. She got to boss his wife around the kitchen and criticize how she did things. And there was an attitude of this is just how things are in Korean culture (I don't know how universally true that is). I knew that was never going to be me. There would have been a double homicide. I was extremely turned off by the sample size of one. (Actually my sample size of two, because when I was born, gender selection was also a cultural thing, which is literally why I am an American).

 

I think that my mindset might easily have been very different if I'd been able to be around a much larger variety of non-white people and seen being around them as a normal part of life at a much earlier junction.

My girlfriend used to watch a lot of Korean dramas. I know those are exaggerated, but it does give the impression that there's no upside to marriage for South Korean women. No wonder they have trouble with low birth rates.

 

My high school was about 95% white so I was mostly attracted to white girls. College was more diverse but I was still attracted to mostly white girls at the beginning, but towards the end, I realized I was mostly attracted to Asians. I didn't notice when I made the switch, but I think it was that I subconsciously noticed that Asian girls were more likely to reciprocate my attraction.

[Fez]

What say y'all, the hive mind?

 

Personally, I'd say its entirely possible to not be attracted one or more races or ethnicities as a blanket statement and not be remotely racist. People can be attracted to all kinds of things, and I don't think its up to us to judge what those attractions are (unless it leads to something illegal of course, like child porn), and there are some things that are race specific.

 

To give a rather silly example, if someone is only attracted to people with natural blonde hair, yes there are a few Asians or Africans who have that, but for the most part anyone with those ancestries is going to be written off immediately.

[karaddin]

I'm basically on the same page as Smegma, generally not finding a certain group of people attractive is still allowing them individuality just with features you don't find normally find attractive - there is the possibility for still finding someone of that group attractive. Saying you'll never be attracted to someone of that group means individuality is irrelevant, all that matters is their race and to me that is racist.

You don't have to ever meet that individual who is the exception, just be open to the possibility they exist.

[Larry of the Lawn]

Not being attracted to a certain race is not racism.

Why not?

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

I agree with karaddin.  

[brook]

Yeah I'm also with Smegma & kara

Also if a large part of attraction is based on familiarity (and I tend to agree that it is) should I be adding 'potentially larger dating pool' to the list of benefits I got from growing up in a super multicultural area. Because it feels like a big lne :p

[maarsen]

I am too old  and too married to consider dating. Culture not skin colour is what makes me attracted on not attracted to someone. Even so I am attracted to women as different as possible from me in looks. Dark skin compared to my pale skin is something I find very attractive.

At a minimum, dark hair is a must. Blondes do nothing for me.

[Larry of the Lawn]

Also agree with Karra, I'd.just add that there's a difference.between saying "im sorry,.I'm.not.attracted to you" and "I'm not attracted to (insert race here.". Obviously in real life things will probably be somewhere in the middle, but I find it hard to believe that out of the several million (or billion) people that make up most races, the average human isn't attracted to some of them. I mean, using any other filter like weight, height, hair color or favorite Sandra Hill book, i bet I can still fond someone attractive. So to specify race as a dealbreaker seems awfully fishy to me.

[SayGen]

It's not skin color it's culture. But that's just my 2¢.
I only date other white people, sometimes if they are half Asian I'll make an exception if they are really decent.

Never considered myself a racist, but then again we do throw the word around a lot.

[Theda Baratheon]

 

I think there's a huge difference between "I find myself typically attracted to such-and-such race or ethnicity, but open to consider anyone" than "I won't date black guys" or "I only date white women". I have never been convinced that the latter is not rooted in some latent or overt racism. 

 

I'm basically on the same page as Smegma, generally not finding a certain group of people attractive is still allowing them individuality just with features you don't find normally find attractive - there is the possibility for still finding someone of that group attractive. Saying you'll never be attracted to someone of that group means individuality is irrelevant, all that matters is their race and to me that is racist.

You don't have to ever meet that individual who is the exception, just be open to the possibility they exist.

 

Yeah I'm also with Smegma & kara

Also if a large part of attraction is based on familiarity (and I tend to agree that it is) should I be adding 'potentially larger dating pool' to the list of benefits I got from growing up in a super multicultural area. Because it feels like a big lne  :P

 

Also agree. I just kind of find the very idea of lumping every single person of a particular race together and concluding that you could never find any of them attractive kinda fishy...

 

I mean; generally not being attracted to a certain race of people wouldn't necessarily make you racist, but simply refusing to date someone of a certain race is just...well, a bit off. 

 

 

It's not skin color it's culture. But that's just my 2¢.
I only date other white people, sometimes if they are half Asian I'll make an exception if they are really decent.

Never considered myself a racist, but then again we do throw the word around a lot.

This, for example, I don't want to chuck around loaded words like ''racist'' but it's just a strange point of view for me. ''I only date other white people'' I mean...why? Are you simply refusing the possibility of ever dating anyone other than white people ? For what reason? White isn't a culture on to itself. I mean...white American people? Then what is so different with all americans? Europeans? I mean, I doubt you're going as niche as only dating celtic people lol. 

 

Me, myself, I always joke that I'm attracted to everyone (all genders, all races) and hardly anyone (don't find myself sexually attracted to many strangers). 

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

I find that my dating pattern is of socioeconomic group, to be entirely serious. There are two types:

1. Young (25 -30) and very muscular,
2. My age (40+) with a high six figure salary (and good looking, but not quite the tautness of the youth)

 

Is "young and muscular" a socioeconomic group now?  I feel like my preferences have become much more sophisticated!  :drool:

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

Yeah I'm also with Smegma & kara

Also if a large part of attraction is based on familiarity (and I tend to agree that it is) should I be adding 'potentially larger dating pool' to the list of benefits I got from growing up in a super multicultural area. Because it feels like a big lne :P

 

I do think it's interesting that nobody seems to have a problem with the idea that it's okay for attraction to be based on "familiarity" - but if you flip that, and talk about the eroticization of the "exotic" and the unfamiliar, the script gets flipped and people seem to have a problem with that.