Doran's folly

[purple-eyes]

I am bothered by this a lot.
Arianne is the heir of Dorne. And I bet she did not even remember much about Elia martell. Elia died when arianne was 7 and she spent most of the time in KL or DS with rhaegar. Arianne can not figure out if aegon looks like elia. She can only collect information which other people can do too.
Doran should send some older people who have lived with elia before.
Even he can not trust anyone except arianne, still, three knights are not good either. Arianne can be taken as a hostage very easily. Just like Aerys took elia as hostage in KL. At that time, doran had to send 10000 men to protect elia. But they failed and Lewyn also died.
Are not he worried same thing would happen to arianne?
I think he should send daemon sand and some older knights or servants who had lived with elia before to check on aegon and JonCon.
There is not much need to send arianne. She is so easily to be taken and used.
And also that Elia sand. She is very likely going to make a big trouble there and then face her doom. She will not live long.
Arianne may also get into trouble. We were told she has weakness for pretty boy. Now we were told young aegon was very pretty (something like without peer in the world). She may fall for him and end up having big trouble.

[The Kinkslayer]

Despite all appearances, Doran Martell is not a smart man.

[Lord Wraith]

I am bothered by this a lot.
Arianne is the heir of Dorne. And I bet she did not even remember much about Elia martell. Elia died when arianne was 7 and she spent most of the time in KL or DS with rhaegar. Arianne can not figure out if aegon looks like elia. She can only collect information which other people can do too.
Doran should send some older people who have lived with elia before.
Even he can not trust anyone except arianne, still, three knights are not good either. Arianne can be taken as a hostage very easily. Just like Aerys took elia as hostage in KL. At that time, doran had to send 10000 men to protect elia. But they failed and Lewyn also died.
Are not he worried same thing would happen to arianne?
I think he should send daemon sand and some older knights or servants who had lived with elia before to check on aegon and JonCon.
There is not much need to send arianne. She is so easily to be taken and used.
And also that Elia sand. She is very likely going to make a big trouble there and then face her doom. She will not live long.
Arianne may also get into trouble. We were told she has weakness for pretty boy. Now we were told young aegon was very pretty (something like without peer in the world). She may fall for him and end up having big trouble.

 

Not really as the Arianne II spoiler from AWOW show us.

 

Despite all appearances, Doran Martell is not a smart man.

 

We shall see.

[The Mountain That Flies]

Despite all appearances, Doran Martell is not a smart man.

:agree: He's very desperate at this point, and was already prone to misreading situations.

[A Bastard Snow]

Despite all appearances, Doran Martell is not a smart man.

Kingslanding is extremely dangerous and requires someone with skill and a cool head..OBERYN MUST GO

Yes my brother who poisoned a guy at age 14 and also fathered 8 bastards and is known for having a temper is the best choice.

Quentyn my son...YOU MUST GO TO ESSOS

Yes Essos the place you have never been to woe a woman when you have never even been with one......If only I knew someone that has been to Essos and is a dangerous ladies man....like a brother....Oh well.


DONT DO ANYTHING RASH BTW OBERYN AS I'M SURE YOU WON'T BE RASH AS IT'S AGAINST EVERYTHING I KNOW ABOUT YOU FOR YOUR WHOLE LIFE.


For real though....unless Dorans plan is to kill his family hes a idiot.Freaking should have switched Oberyn and Quentyns roles.

[hiemal]

The ultimate lesson is that no one rides dragons without getting burned, and if Dorne is slowing in learning it so is the world.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

First, we're not supposed to discuss TWOW previous chapters without spoilers, so... careful.

 

(seriously, despite everybody knows what Arianne is doing, is still a spoiler :dunno: ).

 

Sooo....

 

[spoiler]

After Feast and Dance, Arianne and Doran are in better terms. And unlike Quentyn or Oberyn, Arianne has been sent with VERY SPECIFIC orders that she's not planning on disobeying because the last time he did so, her friends suffered. She DOES NOT WANT to disappoint her father this time.

 

What are those orders, then?

 

First, find out if Quentyn is with Connington. If he is, Quentyn is expected to have returned with Dany and dragons. She is meant to send messages to Doran's men: If they have dragons, they have war. If not, they wait.

 

Also, Arianne has not been sent to find out if Aegon is real or not. She has been sent to talk with Connington because Connington has sent word to Doran, and Arianne is representing Doran. In both of her chapters, that's what worries her. She dismisses Aegon as some pretender kid. Even after they found out the GC wants to take SE, she thinks "wow... this Connington is either a brave or a fool". She barely considers the fact Aegon has anything to do with it.

 

And she's fucking right.

 

Arianne has already figured out who is in charge. Talk about intuition. That's for the people who claims her to be shallow or fool. She has already figured out Jon very well: "Could Connington have been pretending to be dead for all these years? That would require patience worthy of her father. The thought made Arianne uneasy.  Treating with a man that subtle could be perilous". Well, he has indeed being patiently (kinda) waiting for 15 years. Only Kevan was able to realise Jon was not the same guy who was once Aerys' hand.

 

Besides that, Arianne cannot arrange a marriage for her own, nor has been sent to negotiate one. She cannot marry without Doran consenting it: he's both her father and her liege. And she is not either falling for Aegon. Arianne doesn't like boys. She likes men. Aegon is a virgin who cannot drive. Arianne likes to seduce men and play the game. I dunno who she ends up marrying, but it won't be Aegon. And also, Aegon wants to marry Dany. He needs Dany more than he needs Arianne. It's Dany the one who has dragons, an army and the legitimacy he needs. Anyone could say that Aegon is in fact some kid found by the Martells. Only Dany can say "he is my blood".

[/spoiler]

[Good Guy Garlan]

Yep, that was another addition to the ever-growing list of Doran's mistakes.

The only explanation (read: fanwank) I can come up with for this dumbass move is that Doran has been in league with Varys/Illyrio for a while and his plan has always been to support Aegon, and he knows Arianne won't be harmed. But like I said, fanwank.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Robb sent Cat to negotiate. She could have been taken as a hostage. A very valuable one :dunno:

 

You cannot send to negotiate someone who is some random bannermen. That would be offensive for the people you want on your side. It's a risk it has to be taken, sadly.

[Lord Wraith]

Robb sent Cat to negotiate. She could have been taken as a hostage. A very valuable one :dunno:

 

You cannot send to negotiate someone who is some random bannermen. That would be offensive for the people you want on your side. It's a risk it has to be taken, sadly.

 

Point in fact why Tyrion and Cersei sent Petyr to treat with the Tyrells.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

 

Point in fact why Tyrion and Cersei sent Petyr to treat with the Tyrells.

 

Well, Petyr is a nobody but still, a member of the Council.

 

But seriously, who else could have Doran sent? "Hey, remember that guy Connington who was a prick in his youth and thought everybody was beneath him? Let's send Obara to negotiate with him because we don't give a fuck about him". He was very polite in his letter. It was expected he would received a similar courtesy: "I am bringing a King. I need someone worthy enough to talk".

[purple-eyes]

Well, Petyr is a nobody but still, a member of the Council.
 
But seriously, who else could have Doran sent? "Hey, remember that guy Connington who was a prick in his youth and thought everybody was beneath him? Let's send Obara to negotiate with him because we don't give a fuck about him". He was very polite in his letter. It was expected he would received a similar courtesy: "I am bringing a King. I need someone worthy enough to talk".

Doran should have asked a meeting between arianne and aegon in a third place, not in aegon's camp.
Even a ship in the sea would be better and safer.

[Good Guy Garlan]

Well, Petyr is a nobody but still, a member of the Council.
 
But seriously, who else could have Doran sent? "Hey, remember that guy Connington who was a prick in his youth and thought everybody was beneath him? Let's send Obara to negotiate with him because we don't give a fuck about him". He was very polite in his letter. It was expected he would received a similar courtesy: "I am bringing a King. I need someone worthy enough to talk".

Doran doesn't have to negotiate yet, he just needs to see if this Aegon could be the real deal (and if not, what are his chances of winning). He could've sent Daemon Sand to gather his general impressions on Aegon and write back to Doran, and if JonCon gets offended because Doran sent a bastard, he can tell Jon to go fuck himself, because Dorne wasn't obligated to send anyone in the first place. In fact, JonCon should've gone to Doran to ask for his support, not the other way around.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Doran should have asked a meeting between arianne and aegon in a third place, not in aegon's camp.
Even a ship in the sea would be better and safer.

Which is something Aegon's camp would never have consented to. They are quite busy, fighting a war.

 

And what danger would Arianne be in? Connington and his men need Dorne to support them, not for the number of soldiers Dorne can bring, but for the claim of legitimacy. If Doran Martell will not ally with the boy who claims to be his own sister's son, why would anyone else believe that Aegon is truly who he says he is? If Doran doesn't side with them, barely anyone will believe Aegon, and his cause will become a much more difficult one to achieve. 

[Lord Wraith]

Which is something Aegon's camp would never have consented to. They are quite busy, fighting a war.

 

And what danger would Arianne be in? Connington and his men need Dorne to support them, not for the number of soldiers Dorne can bring, but for the claim of legitimacy. If Doran Martell will not ally with the boy who claims to be his own sister's son, why would anyone else believe that Aegon is truly who he says he is? If Doran doesn't side with them, barely anyone will believe Aegon, and his cause will become a much more difficult one to achieve. 

 

Precisely, legitimacy and success are Aegon and JonCon need if they ever hope to succeed. After all they need Dornish support far more than the Dornish need them.

[SeanF]

I am bothered by this a lot.
Arianne is the heir of Dorne. And I bet she did not even remember much about Elia martell. Elia died when arianne was 7 and she spent most of the time in KL or DS with rhaegar. Arianne can not figure out if aegon looks like elia. She can only collect information which other people can do too.
Doran should send some older people who have lived with elia before.
Even he can not trust anyone except arianne, still, three knights are not good either. Arianne can be taken as a hostage very easily. Just like Aerys took elia as hostage in KL. At that time, doran had to send 10000 men to protect elia. But they failed and Lewyn also died.
Are not he worried same thing would happen to arianne?
I think he should send daemon sand and some older knights or servants who had lived with elia before to check on aegon and JonCon.
There is not much need to send arianne. She is so easily to be taken and used.
And also that Elia sand. She is very likely going to make a big trouble there and then face her doom. She will not live long.
Arianne may also get into trouble. We were told she has weakness for pretty boy. Now we were told young aegon was very pretty (something like without peer in the world). She may fall for him and end up having big trouble.

 

Actually, you have to send someone high-ranking on a mission like this.  I think it unlikely they'd take Arianne hostage.

 

Doran's far bigger mistake was his failure to include Arianne in his plans, and his failure to train her up as the future ruler of Dorne.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

 

Actually, you have to send someone high-ranking on a mission like this.  I think it unlikely they'd take Arianne hostage.

 

Doran's far bigger mistake was his failure to include Arianne in his plans, and his failure to train her up as the future ruler of Dorne.

He did not plan for her to become the future ruler of Dorne for the bigger part of her life. He had other plans for her.. Becoming a Queen.

[SeanF]

He did not plan for her to become the future ruler of Dorne for the bigger part of her life. He had other plans for her.. Becoming a Queen.

 

But, he should have shared that plan with her.  And, even as Queen, she'd likely have to do more than the party-planning that was her job at Sunspear.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

 

But, he should have shared that plan with her.  And, even as Queen, she'd likely have to do more than the party-planning that was her job at Sunspear.

He definitly should have shared his plans at least to some extend with her. But Doran is not solely to blame. Arianne read the letter he was writing for Quentyn and it broke her heart, and the father-daughter relationship detoriated from there on out. My guess is that Doran blamed Arianne's behavior afterwards, as well as their detoriating relationship, to the fact that Mellario had left Dorne for Norvos. Arianne just 'lost' her mother, after all. The fact that Doran and Arianne were no longer as close as they were, meant that Doran no longer knew Arianne as well as he did, and that gave Doran an image, or impression, of Arianne that was not 100 % correct (for example, he sees Arianne's closeness to Tyene as a risk, as he feels Arianne keeps nothing from Tyene, and thus, if he tells her a secret, it won't be long before Arianne tells Tyene, and Tyene then tells someone else; In truth, Arianne has patiently kept secrets from Tyene for 9 to 10 years already). It was that incorrect impression he had of Arianne that he acted on, which caused him to keep most things a secret to her (e.g. not telling her about her betrothal at the age of 16, nor in the years that followed)

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

I am bothered by this a lot.
Arianne is the heir of Dorne. And I bet she did not even remember much about Elia martell. Elia died when arianne was 7 and she spent most of the time in KL or DS with rhaegar. Arianne can not figure out if aegon looks like elia. She can only collect information which other people can do too.
Doran should send some older people who have lived with elia before.
Even he can not trust anyone except arianne, still, three knights are not good either. Arianne can be taken as a hostage very easily. Just like Aerys took elia as hostage in KL. At that time, doran had to send 10000 men to protect elia. But they failed and Lewyn also died.
Are not he worried same thing would happen to arianne?

Why should he? That would be suicidally stupid of Aegon. Ten thousand spears won't win him the throne. Violating envoy's immunity will force people to think "oh, he's his grandpa's little boy alright, fuck him and the dragon he rode in on", and push them right back into Cersei's arms. There's no surest way to doom the Targaryen cause than to openly follow in the Mad King's footsteps.
Cat Stark would have made a priceless hostage against the Young Wolf, but Renly would not go there, because he was not a bloody moron.
 

I think he should send daemon sand and some older knights or servants who had lived with elia before to check on aegon and JonCon.
There is not much need to send arianne. She is so easily to be taken and used.

 

Yes, there was a need to send someone Very Important, if send anyone at all. To have Ser Nobody and Stable Boy #8 parlay with a pretender to the throne would be a grave insult.