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Would Joanna be disappointed in Tywin?


Felguy

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Sure.
My hate, Tyrion wanted to say. Instead he spread his hands as far as the fetters would allow. "Whatever she would have of me. Sage counsel, savage wit, a bit of tumbling. My cock, if she desires it. My tongue, if she does not. I will lead her armies or rub her feet, as she desires. And the only reward I ask is I might be allowed to rape and kill my sister."


There you go, he said it because there's no thing in the world tyrion coul say besides that to add credibility, im on mobile so i cant look for the full quote, but in the one you presented its quite clear that he said it as an act to convince JonCon
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There you go, he said it because there's no thing in the world tyrion coul say besides that to add credibility, im on mobile so i cant look for the full quote, but in the one you presented its quite clear that he said it as an act to convince JonCon

 

He wasn't talking to Jon Connington when he said he wanted to rape his sister. He says it to the Widow of the Waterfront.

 

None of the quotes I used were said to Jon Connington.

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He wasn't talking to Jon Connington when he said he wanted to rape his sister. He says it to the Widow of the Waterfront.
 
None of the quotes I used were said to Jon Connington.

It doesnt change the fact that he actually tought about telling whoever he was speaking that he wanted to help Dany because of his "hate" that is justly caused by the numerous attempts on his life, and then he told the lie to try and convince the widow to help them, here is the full quote

My hate, Tyrion wanted to say. Instead he spread his hands as far as the fetters would allow. "Whatever she would have of me. Sage counsel, savage wit, a bit of tumbling. My cock, if she desires it. My tongue, if she does not. I will lead her armies or rub her feet, as she desires. And the only reward I ask is I might be allowed to rape and kill my sister."

That brought the smile back to the old woman's face. "This one at least is honest," she announced, "but you, ser ... I have known a dozen Westerosi knights and a thousand adventurers of the same ilk, but none so pure as you would paint yourself. Men are beasts, selfish and brutal. However gentle the words, there are always darker motives underneath. I do not trust you, ser." She flicked them off with her fan, as if they were no more than flies buzzing about her head. "If you want to get to Meereen, swim. I have no help to give you."

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It doesnt change the fact that he actually tought about telling whoever he was speaking that he wanted to help Dany because of his "hate" that is justly caused by the numerous attempts on his life, and then he told the lie to try and convince the widow to help them, here is the full quote
 

 

Where does he say that he was lying? We already know that he wants his sister dead. We know that he hates Cersei. None of what he said is shown to be a lie.

 

You really think that she was only going to help them if he told her that he wanted to rape his own sister? That is truly ridiculous. Merely hating her and wanting her dead is not enough but that the widow (not Tyrion) desired to see Cersei raped by her own brother?

 

Mental.

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Where does he say that he was lying? We already know that he wants his sister dead. We know that he hates Cersei. None of what he said is shown to be a lie.
 
You really think that she was only going to help them if he told her that he wanted to rape his own sister? That is truly ridiculous. Merely hating her and wanting her dead is not enough but that the widow (not Tyrion) desired to see Cersei raped by her own brother?
 
Mental.

So you need him to think " lol, jk im not a sister raper", you are reading it, your argument about the rape its hollow, you present a quote that you're taking out of context, and defend it saying that he just doesnt think against the idea, now that's mental. He was hoping her to help him because saying that reassured her that he was no longer loyal to house lannister and he wasnt going to kill the only hope the slaves in essos have to be free

The fact that she didn't help them because she didn't trusted in jorah is proof enough itself, if jorah had thought about gaining the widow's trust and told her what she wanted to hear then perhaps she would have helped them
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So you need him to think " lol, jk im not a sister raper", you are reading it, your argument about the rape its hollow, you present a quote that you're taking out of context,

 

 

Do you not understand what context is? You keep on using a word that you clearly have no idea of its meaning.

 

It is in context. He is asked what he wants and he says what he wants. That is clear. Only an idiot would think that is out of context. The fact that you were saying it was out of context because he was speaking to Jon Connigton shows that you didnt bother to actually read the quote before deciding it was out of context. Which is pretty foolish.

 

Point out something else he tells the widow that is clearly a lie and use evidence to back it up.

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Imagine Joanna could somehow see from a hypothetical afterlife how Tywin has treated Tyrion all these years.

Then imagine her being allowed to talk to Tywin, 1 conversation, sometime during AGoT, in the form of a ghost or something.

Would she scold Tywin for being such a bad father?


(as in, what do you think she would say)

 

She would be angry at him, but I'm not sure she would be "disappointed": I think she knew what kind of man he was better than anybody else. She was his cousin, she probably knew him since they were little kids, and was married to him for years, and if what is said about their marriage is even partially true, she probably was the only person Tywin ever lowered his defenses to. So she probably would know what she could expect from him. And she knew about the incest thing between Cersei and Jamie. She might even feel somewhat relieved that their children hadn't become even MORE screwed-up.

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She would be angry at him, but I'm not sure she would be "disappointed": I think she knew what kind of man he was better than anybody else. She was his cousin, she probably knew him since they were little kids, and was married to him for years, and if what is said about their marriage is even partially true, she probably was the only person Tywin ever lowered his defenses to. So she probably would know what she could expect from him.

Yep, but it's also her kid so...mixed feelings.

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He forced his son to rape his wife.

Anyone who saw that would be horrified.

 

With a sword? With the threat of death? How did he force the independently minded Tyrion to rape his wife? Why is it that Tyrion is quote capable of refusing to do what Tywin tells him but when it comes to rape he is being forced? Was it Tywin who forced Tyrion to rape the sex slave in Essos?

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Do you not understand what context is? You keep on using a word that you clearly have no idea of its meaning.
 
It is in context. He is asked what he wants and he says what he wants. That is clear. Only an idiot would think that is out of context. The fact that you were saying it was out of context because he was speaking to Jon Connigton shows that you didnt bother to actually read the quote before deciding it was out of context. Which is pretty foolish.
 
Point out something else he tells the widow that is clearly a lie and use evidence to back it up.


It's not i provided you with the whole conversation, whe he says he "wanted" to justify himself with his hatred and instead choose to tell her that he just wants to murder and rape his sister, i cant memorize the books, im sure you cant either, when im on mobile i cant look for quotes, nevertheless i provided the full conversation, i could certainly ask the same, look for evidence, show me another instance of tyrion thinking, suggesting or saying he wants to rape cersei then you can call me an idiot, and BTW you should keep your insults to yourself, i know a few that could apply to you just fine.

You want to hate tyrion then by all means hate him, but if you are going to take a piece of the text without the rest of the conversation and highlight only what its convenient to your argument then let me enlighten you, that's taking something out of contex
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You want to hate tyrion then by all means hate him, but if you are going to take a piece of the text without the rest of the conversation and highlight only what its convenient to your argument then let me enlighten you, that's taking something out of contex

 

I don't hate him. My god some on this board are ridiculous. You cant have a sensible conversation without people claiming you hate a character if you say something they disagree with.

 

He stated he wanted to rape his sister and that he wanted her dead. He wasn't lying about either. He was asked what he wanted and he answered, that is what is said in the book. Sorry if you don't like it.

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I don't hate him. My god some on this board are ridiculous. You cant have a sensible conversation without people claiming you hate a character if you say something they disagree with.
 
He stated he wanted to rape his sister and that he wanted her dead. He wasn't lying about either. He was asked what he wanted and he answered, that is what is said in the book. Sorry if you don't like it.


Yeah he did, only in that ocassion, when it was convenient to him to say so, he never showed that desire to rape her again, or before, the hate? Yes he hate her, but he doesn't want to rape her, as i said, if he trully have that desire then by all means please show me the text, of course not the one you're showing, that i repeat its weak evidence
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With a sword? With the threat of death? How did he force the independently minded Tyrion to rape his wife? Why is it that Tyrion is quote capable of refusing to do what Tywin tells him but when it comes to rape he is being forced? Was it Tywin who forced Tyrion to rape the sex slave in Essos?

Pardon my shouting but...

 

HE WAS A THIRTEEN YEAR OLD BOY!  He was also still afraid of his father.

 

Tyrion was not acting independently or with anything resembling free will in the incident with Tysha.  To say otherwise is ludicrous. 

 

He's on his own for his actions in Essos though.

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Pardon my shouting but...

 

HE WAS A THIRTEEN YEAR OLD BOY!  He was also still afraid of his father.

 

Tyrion was not acting independently or with anything resembling free will in the incident with Tysha.  To say otherwise is ludicrous. 

 

 

 

No its not.

 

He wasn't terrified of his father when he married Tysha, or when when he put her one of his fathers properties. He knew his father would not approve but he did it anyway. So we have evidence that he was not terrified about his father. Furthermore there is no mention in the many Tyrion POV's about him being terrified of his father.

 

After the incident we see him refusing to do what his father asks of him in AGOT. So he is clearly not terrified of him afterwards.

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With a sword? With the threat of death? How did he force the independently minded Tyrion to rape his wife? Why is it that Tyrion is quote capable of refusing to do what Tywin tells him but when it comes to rape he is being forced? Was it Tywin who forced Tyrion to rape the sex slave in Essos?

 

He's 13 fuckin years old and under the power of his father.  Tyrion himself was raped as surely as Tysha.  What in god's name that has to do with what he does 20 years later in Essos you're gonna have to explain to me.

 

And Tyrion's agency or lack thereof has nothing to do with the disgusting horror of Tywin having ordered all of his men and Tyrion to rape a woman who was married to his son.   

 

If Johanna wasn't sickened by that, then she's a pretty damn awful person too.  

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He's 13 fuckin years old and under the power of his father.  Tyrion himself was raped as surely as Tysha.  

 

Not really. Did he have a weapon pointed at him? Did his father threaten to kill him? Or even harm him?

 

No he was told that she was a prostitute and took his turn. Tyrion is responsible for his own actions. 13 year olds are capable of rape as well you know.

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Not really. Did he have a weapon pointed at him? Did his father threaten to kill him? Or even harm him?
 
No he was told that she was a prostitute and took his turn. Tyrion is responsible for his own actions. 13 year olds are capable of rape as well you know.

Really? You're going to play THAT game?

No, he (probably, but you can't be certain either) didn't have a weapon pointed at him, but I am certain that he couldn't just leave, pretty sure Tywin made sure of that somehow, guards or otherwise.

Secondly, you have no proof he wasn't afraid of his father at 13 years old.

Third, what do his actions now have to do with his actions then.

You're trying way too hard to somehow displace blame from Tywin, it's ridiculous beyond belief.
Tywin ordered rape of Tysha, end of, he forced Tyrion to rape her too. Also says that on the wiki, trying to do some mental gymnastics to make it seem he had free will is just... No
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