How could the Greyjoys hold Moat Cailin?

[thelittledragonthatcould]

 

so 8K men would not work ? what about 9K ? or 10K ? or 11.5K ? 

it really  has to be 12K to work ? 

If he had only 11K would he still try it or would he give up ? 

He takes 12K not because that's the amount he needs but because that's what he has. This idea that he needs 12K or it will not stand a chance just isn't true.  

 

He needs as many as possible. He is not even sure that 12k will work, just that it will give him a chance.

 

That is what Robb says, he also says that without the Freys he has no hope.

 

There are plenty of quotes stating that he needs the Freys, can you show the quotes where he does not need them?

[Universal Sword Donor]

Robb needs the Freys primarily for one reason. He can't get to fucking MC without them. If he marches south, he has to go to the Ruby ford where he would get pinned between Daven's force coming west, Tarly at Maidenpool and Mace at the capital.

 

Even with the 8k, he has enough to retake MC assuming Vic is gone like he assumes he will be. He just has to enact his plan with fewer numbers

[Frey Pie]

That is another reason why Balons plan is so good. Robb could just as easily die South and going by your logic, with no Robb there is no one left to unite the North meaning an even easier time for the Ironborn.

Except for Bran or Rickon (looks at Manderlys actions). Even Arya and Sansa. The same can be said for if Tywin does during the war. Jaime is already in chains. Tyrion and Cersei have a high chance of dying. Balon invades Lannisport and does away with that branch...

I actually don't even think Daven can lead the west in the same way Jaime could. You the name, authority, reputation, personality. People seem to think Daven has it...but where's the evidence?

[Universal Sword Donor]

Except for Bran or Rickon (looks at Manderlys actions). Even Arya and Sansa. The same can be said for if Tywin does during the war. Jaime is already in chains. Tyrion and Cersei have a high chance of dying. Balon invades Lannisport and does away with that branch...

I actually don't even think Daven can lead the west in the same way Jaime could. You the name, authority, reputation, personality. People seem to think Daven has it...but where's the evidence?

 

Blackfish thinks Stafford is a dullard but the son is more formidable. Cersei naming him the Warden of the West was actually one of her smarter moves, damning praise that is (obviously should have been Kevan). He does have issues with getting the Riverlords and the Freys to listen to him though.

[Blackfish Tully]

 

He needs as many as possible. He is not even sure that 12k will work, just that it will give him a chance.

 

That is what Robb says, he also says that without the Freys he has no hope.

 

There are plenty of quotes stating that he needs the Freys, can you show the quotes where he does not need them?

 

Since I never said he did not need them I don't need to provide a quote that he did not need them .

The only thing I said was that he could have taken Moat Calin with less then 12K and no I don't have a quote from Robb saying that he could have taken it with less then 12K just like you do not have a

quote from him saying he has to have 12K to take it. 

[Frey Pie]

Blackfish thinks Stafford is a dullard but the son is more formidable. Cersei naming him the Warden of the West was actually one of her smarter moves, damning praise that is (obviously should have been Kevan). He does have issues with getting the Riverlords and the Freys to listen to him though.

True but then how many people aren't more formidable then a dullard? I don't think it's high praise tbh. He also doesn't bring a large number of men with him, either for lack of men in the west 9r lack of authority from him. You could say he doesn't need them but I'd prefer not to be outnumbered by the riverland lords

[Universal Sword Donor]

True but then how many people aren't more formidable then a dullard? I don't think it's high praise tbh. He also doesn't bring a large number of men with him, either for lack of men in the west 9r lack of authority from him. You could say he doesn't need them but I'd prefer not to be outnumbered by the riverland lords

 

Jaime himself says numbers were the last thing needed at Riverrun. 

[thelittledragonthatcould]

 

Since I never said he did not need them I don't need to provide a quote that he did not need them .

The only thing I said was that he could have taken Moat Calin with less then 12K and no I don't have a quote from Robb saying that he could have taken it with less then 12K just like you do not have a

quote from him saying he has to have 12K to take it. 

 

He takes 12k, he states that without the Freys he has no hope. He needs as many men as possible, had the Freys had more men he would take them.

 

He doesn't think he can take it with less, he thinks 12k will give him a chance. His words not mine.

[hiemal]

By learning to live off of snakes and swamp water.

[Sullen]

Fair play to him, that's a nugget of wisdom

Although if his plan was always to bend the knee to the eventual winner then I question him crowning himself

 

Not always to bend the knee, only to bend the knee if his eventual adversary is too strong for him to take on.

 

Crowning himself was stupid, yeah, but I suppose it gives him leverage in negotiations with whoever sits the Throne.

[Universal Sword Donor]

 

He takes 12k, he states that without the Freys he has no hope. He needs as many men as possible, had the Freys had more men he would take them.

 

He doesn't think he can take it with less, he thinks 12k will give him a chance. His words not mine.

 

He literally can't get to the North unless the Freys let him cross, so yeah he "needs" the Freys, not necessarily their numbers.

[Frey Pie]

 
Not always to bend the knee, only to bend the knee if his eventual adversary is too strong for him to take on.
 
Crowning himself was stupid, yeah, but I suppose it gives him leverage in negotiations with whoever sits the Throne.

I would say it gives him the opposite. Tywin is more likely to leave him bend the knee if he's not already been a king twice

[Frey Pie]

 
Jaime himself says numbers were the last thing needed at Riverrun. 

But it's a tiny royal presence....and I think they'll pay for it

[thelittledragonthatcould]

 

He literally can't get to the North unless the Freys let him cross, so yeah he "needs" the Freys, not necessarily their numbers.

Of course he can. He could have left Riverrun and hooked up with Roose and marched the Kings Road. The Twins was essential to get to Riverrun because Tywin was on the Green Fork, he's not there when he's leaving.

 

Robb, ideally, wants to go home via the Vale. It is not Tywin who is stopping him from doing that, but Lysas refusal to allow him to.

 

"The knights of the Vale could make all the difference in this war," said Robb, "but if she will not fight, so be it. I've asked only that she open the Bloody Gate for us, and provide ships at Gulltown to take us north. The high road would be hard, but not so hard as fighting our way up the Neck. If I could land at White Harbor I could flank Moat Cailin and drive the ironmen from the north in half a year."

"It will not happen, sire," said the Blackfish. "Cat is right. Lady Lysa is too fearful to admit an army to the Vale. Any army. The Bloody Gate will remain closed."

[Universal Sword Donor]

 

Of course he can. He could have left Riverrun and hooked up with Roose and marched the Kings Road. The Twins was essential to get to Riverrun because Tywin was on the Green Fork, he's not there when he's leaving.

 

Robb, ideally, wants to go home via the Vale. It is not Tywin who is stopping him from doing that, but Lysas refusal to allow him to.

 

"The knights of the Vale could make all the difference in this war," said Robb, "but if she will not fight, so be it. I've asked only that she open the Bloody Gate for us, and provide ships at Gulltown to take us north. The high road would be hard, but not so hard as fighting our way up the Neck. If I could land at White Harbor I could flank Moat Cailin and drive the ironmen from the north in half a year."

"It will not happen, sire," said the Blackfish. "Cat is right. Lady Lysa is too fearful to admit an army to the Vale. Any army. The Bloody Gate will remain closed."

 

 

 

He's gonna march up the Kingsroad with a royal army at Maidenpool and KL? That would be a stellar idea, especially in light of Robb's wariness of an enemy coming up behind him while laying siege to MC.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

 

 

He's gonna march up the Kingsroad with a royal army at Maidenpool and KL? That would be a stellar idea, especially in light of Robb's wariness of an enemy coming up behind him while laying siege to MC.

How do you think he was planning on getting to Gulltown?

 

Roose was able to march up the Kings Road, why would it be harder for Robb to join him?

[Universal Sword Donor]

How do you think he was planning on getting to Gulltown?

Going through the twins.....

 

Roose was able to march up the Kings Road, why would it be harder for Robb to join him?

 

As to Roose marching up the KR, are we overlooking the issues he had crossing? But that's not really the issue. Assuming he doesn't re-ally with the Freys, he has his forces marching up the Kingsroad with the Frey army at the Twins and royal armies perfectly capable of following him and assailing him from the rear. All it takes is a raven from Walder to KL to say "Hey the RW plan is a no go, but he's not crossing here" and you'd best bet Tarly would be marching north in force.

[Sullen]

I would say it gives him the opposite. Tywin is more likely to leave him bend the knee if he's not already been a king twice

 

It gives him something to concede, if he doesn't crown himself, it could be argued that he was loyal to the Crown all along, and thus it is not necessary to let him keep his conquests North.

 

Tywin can't exactly punish him either, Balon is hiding being the Iron Fleet after all, and no monarch has the naval power to take him on at the moment in the series. Tywin likes it when his opponent bends the knee, he's not going to turn Balon away if he comes to him with an offer of fealty without having ever worked directly against the interests of House Lannister.

 

Tywin is after all a forgiving man to nobles willing to repent, it goes with his pragmatic nature.