How could the Greyjoys hold Moat Cailin?

[Frey Pie]

Yup.

Top quality posting as per usual 😂

Balon was a fool

[Sullen]

Bending his knee was not part of his plan either.

 

Despite the fact that we're specifically told he considers bending the knee part of his options?

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Robb doesn't have control of the North but it is still very much in northern hands. Balon tool a small portion of it so if he styled himself King of a small portion of the north then nobody would bat am eyelid. Winterfell was the major boon to Balon, something completely unplanned.

 

He planned to take it eventually. That is testament to how weak the North was, he thought that Winterfell could hold out for a year instead of weeks.

 

His plan went better than expected as he knew that all what was left in the north was the dregs.

 

. "The lords are gone south with the pup. Those who remained behind are the cravens, old men, and green boys. They will yield or fall, one by one. Winterfell may defy us for a year, but what of it? The rest shall be ours, forest and field and hall, and we shall make the folk our thralls and salt wives."

[Frey Pie]

 
Despite the fact that we're specifically told he considers bending the knee part of his options?

At the beginning. He changed his plan to go with the reality of the situation, a good move imo

[Frey Pie]

 
He planned to take it eventually. That is testament to how weak the North was, he thought that Winterfell could hold out for a year instead of weeks.
 
His plan went better than expected as he knew that all what was left in the north was the dregs.
 
. "The lords are gone south with the pup. Those who remained behind are the cravens, old men, and green boys. They will yield or fall, one by one. Winterfell may defy us for a year, but what of it? The rest shall be ours, forest and field and hall, and we shall make the folk our thralls and salt wives."

Which is obviously bullshit. How much does Balon know about the North? How about the 600 high quality troops with Ramsay? How about the cavalry that broke Dagmers shield wall? How about the fact the Reeds and Ryswells didn't send many men south? How about the heavy cavalry that Manderly has retained? Or the thousands of mountain men.

His speech is absolute and utter bollocks

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Which is obviously bullshit. How much does Balon know about the North? How about the 600 high quality troops with Ramsay? How about the cavalry that broke Dagmers shield wall? How about the fact the Reeds and Ryswells didn't send many men south? How about the heavy cavalry that Manderly has retained? Or the thousands of mountain men.

His speech is absolute and utter bollocks

 

 

No, clearly it wasnt. If the men in the North were of any decent quality then Robb would not be so dependent on the Freys and his army in the South to win back the lost North.

 

"The ironmen control the sunset sea. The Greyjoys hold Moat Cailin as well. No army has ever taken Moat Cailin from the south. Even to march against it is madness. We could be trapped on the causeway, with the ironborn before us and angry Freys at our backs." "We must win back the Freys," said Robb. "With them, we still have some chance of success, however small. Without them, I see no hope.

 

You might want to fantasize about hidden Northern armies, but I only really want to talk about the books and not your fanfiction.

[Bobby b's bobby]

 
 
No, clearly it wasnt. If the men in the North were of any decent quality then Robb would not be so dependent on the Freys and his army in the South to win back the lost North.
 
"The ironmen control the sunset sea. The Greyjoys hold Moat Cailin as well. No army has ever taken Moat Cailin from the south. Even to march against it is madness. We could be trapped on the causeway, with the ironborn before us and angry Freys at our backs." "We must win back the Freys," said Robb. "With them, we still have some chance of success, however small. Without them, I see no hope.
 
You might want to fantasize about hidden Northern armies, but I only really want to talk about the books and not your fanfiction.

t's not fanfiction it's fact. Ramsay brought 600 men at arms to wf, Rodrick managed to bring 2k to wf, the Manderly strenght minus 1200 is still in the north, the dustins sent few men south , the reeds sent none and there is 3k mountain clansmen and 500 umbers of poor. quality.

[Ser Arthur Hightower]

 

He planned to take it eventually. That is testament to how weak the North was, he thought that Winterfell could hold out for a year instead of weeks.

 

His plan went better than expected as he knew that all what was left in the north was the dregs.

 

. "The lords are gone south with the pup. Those who remained behind are the cravens, old men, and green boys. They will yield or fall, one by one. Winterfell may defy us for a year, but what of it? The rest shall be ours, forest and field and hall, and we shall make the folk our thralls and salt wives."

 

Actually his son took Winterfell by disregarding the plan, had they attempted to take it by any other means it would have failed miserably (indeed it defies logic that it didn't fail as Theon did it).

 

Anyway the idea that every castle in the north would fall is ludicrous, even Dagmer Cleftjaw knows the Ironborn can't take a decent castle. They took Winterfell (undefended), Deepwood Motte (wooden and undefended), Torrhen's Square (old and undefended) and Moat Caillin (never really explained or described), they completely ignored Barrowton, the Rills, Flint's Fingers or even Bear Island, because the idea that they could take a castle from one of the more powerful northern houses without some plot stupidity is laughable.

 

That completely ignores the Dreadfort, Karhold, Last Hearth, Widow's Watch, Oldcastle, Hornwood, the Northern mountains and White Harbour.

 

We even see when Asha visits Winterfell that she has modified her father's plan in her head to taking the weak parts of the north close to the Sunset sea, because his idea that his forces could take the north is crazy.

 

Balon seems to think himself some sort of successor Harwyn Hoare, but being a reader of the books and not him we should be able to see that everything he has ever tried to do militarily has resulted in failure.

 

Of course the "dregs" of the north still includes well over 1,500 heavy cavalry, which the Ironborn posses none of and can't counter.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Anyway the idea that every castle in the north would fall is ludicrous,

 
Where does Balon make that claim?
 

t's not fanfiction it's fact. Ramsay brought 600 men at arms to wf, Rodrick managed to bring 2k to wf, the Manderly strenght minus 1200 is still in the north, the dustins sent few men, the reeds sent none and there is 3k mountain clansmen and 500 umbers of poor. quality.

Yeah, its fanfiction. The men left were not of a decent quality to take back the North, that is why Robb is heading North and needs the Freys.

 

If there were of sufficient quality he would not be abandoning the Riverlands.

[Bobby b's bobby]

 
Where does Balon make that claim?

"They will yield or fall one by one"

[Bobby b's bobby]

 
Where does Balon make that claim?
 
Yeah, its fanfiction. The men left were not of a decent quality to take back the North, that is why Robb is heading North and needs the Freys.

So the 600 cavalry ramsay has of which the ironborn have none is poor quality? Or rodrick 2k or the dustins that didn't go south, or the reeds or all the Manderly men?

[thelittledragonthatcould]

"They will yield or fall one by one"

 
Exactly, yield.
 

So the 600 cavalry ramsay has of which the ironborn have none is poor quality? Or rodrick 2k or the dustins that didn't go south, or the reeds or all the Manderly men?

Robb obviously thinks so.

[Ser Arthur Hightower]

 

 

No, clearly it wasnt. If the men in the North were of any decent quality then Robb would not be so dependent on the Freys and his army in the South to win back the lost North.

 

"The ironmen control the sunset sea. The Greyjoys hold Moat Cailin as well. No army has ever taken Moat Cailin from the south. Even to march against it is madness. We could be trapped on the causeway, with the ironborn before us and angry Freys at our backs." "We must win back the Freys," said Robb. "With them, we still have some chance of success, however small. Without them, I see no hope.

 

You might want to fantasize about hidden Northern armies, but I only really want to talk about the books and not your fanfiction.

 

I didn't realise the worldbook was fanfiction:

 

 

 

Torrhen Stark, King in the North, had crossed the Neck and entered the riverlands, leading an army of savage Northmen thirty thousand strong.

 

It would seem to me that based on maths there is a difference of 10,000 between what Robb took south and what has been taken south in the past that there are at least 10,000 men under arms in the north that can be taken south. And based on logic it would seem that a nation can raise a substantially larger army inside of its own borders what it can project outside of it.

[Bobby b's bobby]

 
Exactly, yield.

That's also bs no way White harbour, Dreadfort, Last Hearth, Barrowtown or other significant strong castles yield unless the guy in charge of their garrisons takes everybody to deal with 200 raiders and Theon and his (fuck I just realised) 20 good men scale the walls.

[Ser Arthur Hightower]

 
Where does Balon make that claim?
 

Yeah, it's fanfiction. The men left were not of a decent quality to take back the North, that is why Robb is heading North and needs the Freys.

 

If there were of sufficient quality he would not be abandoning the Riverlands.

 

Then who is supposed to lead them?

 

Saying decent quality men don't exist when we know they do is the fanfiction.

[Ser Arthur Hightower]

That's also bs no way White harbour, Dreadfort, Last Hearth, Barrowtown or other significant strong castles yield unless the guy in charge of their garrisons takes everybody to deal with 200 raiders and Theon and his (fuck I just realised) 20 good men scale the walls.

Oh, I get it, D&D were really just satirising how Martin had Theon take out the northern capital with 20 men when they had Ramsay kill every horse in Stannis' army.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

 

I didn't realise the worldbook was fanfiction:

 

 

It would seem to me that based on maths there is a difference of 10,000 between what Robb took south and what has been taken south in the past that there are at least 10,000 men under arms in the north that can be taken south. And based on logic it would seem that a nation can raise a substantially larger army inside of its own borders what it can project outside of it.

 

I didn't realize that Robb was an idiot not aware of his own lands capabilities. He needs to go back, he needs the Freys to come with him.

 

Robb needs military support to retake his homeland. This is in the books.

That's also bs no way White harbour, Dreadfort, Last Hearth, Barrowtown or other significant strong castles yield unless the guy in charge of their garrisons takes everybody to deal with 200 raiders and Theon and his (fuck I just realised) 20 good men scale the walls.

No, not really. We saw in the Riverlands that the majority of the Lords yielded rather than fought. Unless you are one of these fantasists who believe the Northmen are somehow different to other Westerosi men then chances are many would yield rather than fight to the death.

[Bobby b's bobby]

Oh, I get it, D&D were really just satirising how Martin had Theon take out the northern capital with 20 men when they had Ramsay kill every horse in Stannis' army.

I'd love it if they were that good and took the poss out of all Martins weakest efforts.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

 

Then who is supposed to lead them?

 

Saying decent quality men don't exist when we know they do is the fanfiction.

lol

 

Robb is the only person capable of leading armies? That is perhaps the most idiotic thing I have seen on these boards. Who leads the Manderly men in Hornwood? What happens if Robb Stark falls sick? No Northern army?

[Sullen]

At the beginning. He changed his plan to go with the reality of the situation, a good move imo

 

Where does he state that bending the knee falls out of his options?

 

Balon tells Asha that bending the knee must always be an option, for a defiant man dies defiant, while one who bends the knee can rise harder and stronger when the time allows it.

 

He never "changes his plan", hell, he was murdered before his initial plan was even over.