Rant & Rave without repercussion S 5/S 6 speculation continued [book and show spoilers]

[Ainara S]

 

True. But this article claims that Dany is supposed to be the teenage girl magnet.

Hah. Really? I'm a teenage girl and Dany's TV writing is the opposite of a magnet to me. As opposed to books Dany being, well, my favourite character.

 

 

Then here's something that makes me want to Meryn Trant someone. 

I'm not sure I want to read something with a title that says "medieval man show".

[Shuvuuia]

I have to admit that if I watched it when I was 15-18 show!Dany probably would've been appealing to me the same way heroines of slasher movies or action movies were appealing to me (and sometimes still are) - because of the eye-candy and superficial badass-ness. Like, I had a phase when GoT would've seemed super cool because it was gritty and bloody - but I don't think that's what the producers think the female audience want. And I would think they would want to cater to a more mature audience, capable of paying for hbo.

[Annara Snow]

Funnily enough a reader from my own essay about women written by men had brought up exactly this point with exactly these examples. And I find my own thoughts regarding this subject extremely troubling. Because it is a self-fulfilling prophecy with that mindset. If you have a book and lable it as 'for girls', you actually try to sell it to girls. That's why I as a male thinking about the Hunger Games cannot help but associate it with a love triangle because this is the part the medias point out as the primary focus because they think this is what the primary focus of the girlish readers should be like. That's pure insanity! And that's how you exclude boys who think they have no business reading something 'for girls'.
The Harry Potter example is therefore interesting because I am of the opinion that if you swap the gender of Harry, keep the story otherwise completely intact and don't change the advertising at all... then it would have the same impact upon male readers than it actually had. Because people became invested in the setting, not the gender of the protagonist. But if they changed the advertising, it would all fall apart, because the exclusion would be right there. That's at least what my teenage self tells me, that he would never read 'girl's stuff', he would violently refuse it.

What's funny to me is that, for instance, The Dark Knight has a love triangle that's a really big part of the plot, much more so than in The Hunger Games. But do you ever see anyone focusing on that at the expense of other things in the movie?

Indeed, the preconceived notion that something is supposed to be for a certain type of audience affects how people - including critics and media - perceive its main focus and themes. And another thing that affects both how people perceive the target audience and the main focus, is who the writer is, if it's a book. An example that particularly struck me is something I read at the university when we were doing 19th century English literature, a book about the literary criticism and reception of Wuthering Heights in the 19th century. All the early reviews of the novel, when it was first published under the name Ellis Bell, described it as a very brutal story about family conflict, hatred and revenge. One critic even said that the author seems like some rough sailor, and that the book is not suited for the tender minds of women. When the novel was published for the second time, years later, when everyone knew the author was a woman called Emily Bronte, the reviews all described it as a tragic love story and focused on that aspect of the novel. Of course, it's actually both.

[Jane Blackdread]

 

(It's actually kinda funny, because I know my tastes at that age. One of my favourite shows while I was in primary school was 'Slayers', an Anime targeted at young boys with the quirk of having a female protagonist. I remember the network it run at had basically no advertising at all, so I just liked it on my own volition. Because it was funny and it had a decent amount of action. I never cared much that Lina was a girl, she was just awesome and thankfully not sexualized at all with her fancy sorceress-attire).

 I love Slayers too. 

[Annara Snow]

According to a 2013 article on Wired, GoT audience for the current season was 58 percent male to  42 percent female ... but "positive social media activity" involving the show was 50-50 (kind of like this board, eh?). Be curious about next season, since a lot of intelligent people (book lovers) are thinking about sitting it out. 
 
Then here's something that makes me want to Meryn Trant someone.

Is that supposed to be satire?

Anyway, it says something that GoT is starting to develop a reputation of a show that "women hate". Especially knowing that data about 60% of the ASOAIF readers being female.

[TepidHands]

It's funny, I'm the big ASOIAF fan (and former GoT fan) in my household. My husband, Mr. Hands the Alpha Male , is the one who convinced me to watch "Outlander." He'd caught the first couple episodes and was hooked! 

 

He could care less about GoT. He kept confusing all the male characters (Roose Bolton, Jorah Mormont, Twyin Lannister, Barristan Selmy, etc.) The women he was able to keep straight. He still hasn't watched but one episode of Season 5. 

 

"Outlander" is supposed to be a women's show, right? Now, it's got violence and Caitriona gets naked, too, so I guess it's not wholly a soap opera. Thing is, even though it celebrates the female gaze, it also has extraordinary production values, great music, universally wonderful acting, and a reverence for the original material, which I haven't even read and he won't ever try to.

[Toth]

What's funny to me is that, for instance, The Dark Knight has a love triangle that's a really big part of the plot, much more so than in The Hunger Games. But do you ever see anyone focusing on that at the expense of other things in the movie?

Indeed, the preconceived notion that something is supposed to be for a certain type of audience affects how people - including critics and media - perceive its main focus and themes. And another thing that affects both how people perceive the target audience and the main focus, is who the writer is, if it's a book. An example that particularly struck me is something I read at the university when we were doing 19th century English literature, a book about the literary criticism and reception of Wuthering Heights in the 19th century. All the early reviews of the novel, when it was first published under the name Ellis Bell, described it as a very brutal story about family conflict, hatred and revenge. One critic even said that the author seems like some rough sailor, and that the book is not suited for the tender minds of women. When the novel was published for the second time, years later, when everyone knew the author was a woman called Emily Bronte, the reviews all described it as a tragic love story and focused on that aspect of the novel. Of course, it's actually both.

 

But the worst part is: People actually try to fit to those expectations. I have witnessed some of my female pupils (around age 13) talking about the Hunger Games and all they talked about was with whom they ship Katniss. Contrasting that with the voices of more attentive readers I know (I myself have neither read the books, nor seen the films) I cannot help but roll my eyes, but I know it's not their fault. It's just what they think should be their primary focus, nobody told them that the other aspects of the novels are interesting too.

 

 I love Slayers too. 

And rightfully so, because it is a great series no matter how you look at it!

[RenlyIsNotRight]

So... Brienne dies in the premiere :lol:

 

Not sure if you meant that as a joke or this is an actual confirmed spoiler, but good riddance. Show Brienne sucks, and I'm not even saying that because she killed Stannis - to the contrary I'm glad Stannis is permadead on the show because at least it means D&D can't butcher him any more than they already have - but because she's like a hollow parody of the book character. Not that her being off the show will make it any better though.

[Bobby b's bobby]

 
Not sure if you meant that as a joke or this is an actual confirmed spoiler, but good riddance. Show Brienne sucks, and I'm not even saying that because she killed Stannis - to the contrary I'm glad Stannis is permadead on the show because at least it means D&D can't butcher him any more than they already have - but because she's like a hollow parody of the book character. Not that her being off the show will make it any better though.

Mains female character is meant to die in the premier and yes thug Brienne is crap.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

 

Not sure if you meant that as a joke or this is an actual confirmed spoiler, but good riddance. Show Brienne sucks, and I'm not even saying that because she killed Stannis - to the contrary I'm glad Stannis is permadead on the show because at least it means D&D can't butcher him any more than they already have - but because she's like a hollow parody of the book character. Not that her being off the show will make it any better though.

 

It's a joke. But, come on

 

-She's a woman.

-She has read the books.

 

I mean, she wouldn't be in more danger even if she enters the Riverlands during the Wot5K wearing a red shirt.

[Annara Snow]

It's a joke. But, come on
 
-She's a woman.
-She has read the books.
 
I mean, she wouldn't be in more danger even if she enters the Riverlands during the Wot5K wearing a red shirt.

But can they kill her in a sexualized way? Because I think they actually kill off more male characters who haven't died in the books, but when they kill off women (either those who are still alive in the books, or original characters), it's usually sexualized (Ros) or somehow connected to their gender, like stabbing them in the womb. Even the deleted scene of Doreah killing Irri was a "sexy murder".

[JonCon's Red Beard]

But can they kill her in a sexualized way? Because I think they actually kill off more male characters who haven't died in the books, but when they kill off women (either those who are still alive in the books, or original characters), it's usually sexualized (Ros) or somehow connected to their gender, like stabbing them in the womb. Even the deleted scene of Doreah killing Irri was a "sexy murder".

 

Maybe she first has sex with whoever plays the role of Jaime Lannister...

[kissdbyfire]

She can always rape Pod and get killed by... don't care.

[Toth]

She can always rape Pod and get killed by... don't care.

 

Maybe she slips on a puddle of candlewax beneath a window in Winterfell and falls into her sword named Oathkeeper. Karma is a bitch, yaknow.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

 

Maybe she slips on a puddle of candlewax beneath a window in Winterfell and falls into her sword named Oathkeeper. Karma is a bitch, yaknow.

 

Pod kills her, then.

[Toth]

Pod kills her, then.

 

My post was more targeted at the "gets killed by... don't care" instead of the rape. For I am pretty confident they couldn't possibly show Pod getting raped in a world where women sexually abusing men is played for laughs.

[kissdbyfire]

My post was more targeted at the "gets killed by... don't care" instead of the rape. For I am pretty confident they couldn't possibly show Pod getting raped in a world where women sexually abusing men is played for laughs.

Precisely! As I've said before, s 6 will be the funniest comedy on TV next year, especially if Winds is out before it premieres.

[Le Cygne]

Maybe Larry's horse will slip on a banana peel. They don't want him to look too good when he rescues the maiden femme fatale.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Maybe Larry's horse will slip on a banana peel. They don't want him to look too good when he rescues the maiden femme fatale.

 

Larry won't do it.

 

 

We will be introduced to a new original character...

 

Benn of house Lannisweiss...

 

Benn is tall, handsome, perfect. The best warrior of Westeros. He protects children and rescues maidens. He's able to end sieges by words only.

 

And specially, he hates rapists.

 

Benn of House Lannisweiss will meet Brienne and consensually take her virginity. Then, she will die. Not because Benn of House Lannisweiss is too much to resist, but because they will kill her. Who are they? Who the fuck cares. She will die so Benn of House Lannisweiss can have... REVENGE!!! Let's say... Ramsay.

 

Benn of House Lannisweiss will travel to Winterfell to avenge Brienne. He will face Ramsay and his 20 good men ON HIS OWN, that cool is he. He will defeat him and will then part to the Wall, to tell Jon "THE TRUTH": You're a wiza--- arm.. Rhaegar and Lyanna are your parents". He will then consensually have sex with melisandre, and she will give birth to a creature of LIGHT that will defeat the others.

 

And kills Olly.

 

Benn of House Lannisweiss will then take Jon south, to crown him as King. As soon as he enters KL, he's received by everyone and they all decide he must be King. He does not accept. Cersei shows up and tells him "you look like someone I know! My father should adopt you!". Benn of House Lannisweiss is posthumously adopted by Tywin, and he takes her and Tommen and they sail to Essos, where they live happily ever after.

 

Jon is crowned, whatever. Also, Tyrion.

[Bobby b's bobby]

 
Larry won't do it.
 
 
We will be introduced to a new original character...
 
Benn of house Lannisweiss...
 
Benn is tall, handsome, perfect. The best warrior of Westeros. He protects children and rescues maidens. He's able to end sieges by words only.
 
And specially, he hates rapists.
 
Benn of House Lannisweiss will meet Brienne and consensually take her virginity. Then, she will die. Not because Benn of House Lannisweiss is too much to resist, but because they will kill her. Who are they? Who the fuck cares. She will die so Benn of House Lannisweiss can have... REVENGE!!! Let's say... Ramsay.
 
Benn of House Lannisweiss will travel to Winterfell to avenge Brienne. He will face Ramsay and his 20 good men ON HIS OWN, that cool is he. He will defeat him and will then part to the Wall, to tell Jon "THE TRUTH": You're a wiza--- arm.. Rhaegar and Lyanna are your parents". He will then consensually have sex with melisandre, and she will give birth to a creature of LIGHT that will defeat the others.
 
And kills Olly.
 
Benn of House Lannisweiss will then take Jon south, to crown him as King. As soon as he enters KL, he's received by everyone and they all decide he must be King. He does not accept. Cersei shows up and tells him "you look like someone I know! My father should adopt you!". Benn of House Lannisweiss is posthumously adopted by Tywin, and he takes her and Tommen and they sail to Essos, where they live happily ever after.
 
Jon is crowned, whatever. Also, Tyrion.

Dabid speaks and I will listen.