Wise Man's Fear XI

[Darth Richard II]

8 hours ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

While many of us are no doubt frustrated that the book is taking so long, I think that a lot of the "flaying" in this thread is more over Rothfuss being a pretentious douchbag than his slow writing pace. I'm sorry, slow "editing" pace.

I think it's safe to say that most of the people posting here like Rothfuss's work. Well, except maybe for @Darth Richard II, but his soul was removed years ago to make room for more snark.

I actually like them well enough, although I think they are overrated by fans. Its the authors behavior I take issues with, uh, obviously.

And I had my soul removed in order to get more Star Wars movies. Duh.

[Seiche]

2 hours ago, Calibandar said:

No one walked into reading The Name of The Wind 10 years ago thinking that the final book was more than a decade away Scott. If people had known that alone, it would have impacted sales. When you buy book 1 of a trilogy, you buy into the idea of the story being finished as well, and you're willing to pay for each book, but if that story is not being finished, most people don't even buy book 1.

Do others agree with this?  Are most folks this rational and calculating when purchasing a book?  I'm certainly not. Not even close. I read the review of NotW on Onion AV Club, it was very favorable and so I checked the book out from the library to read it.  I liked it enough that I bought it later on.

If everything were the same but I also happened to read a note somewhere that the trilogy wouldn't be completed for 10 years...well I don't think that would have changed too much for me.  Is the book good?  Ok, then I want to read it.  

[Darth Richard II]

Yeah, I'm used to book series taking way longer than that to finish,. The rate at which some these new SFF authors put out books kinda of astonishes me, particular since a lot of them are so good.

[unJon]

48 minutes ago, Seiche said:

Do others agree with this?  Are most folks this rational and calculating when purchasing a book?  I'm certainly not. Not even close. I read the review of NotW on Onion AV Club, it was very favorable and so I checked the book out from the library to read it.  I liked it enough that I bought it later on.

If everything were the same but I also happened to read a note somewhere that the trilogy wouldn't be completed for 10 years...well I don't think that would have changed too much for me.  Is the book good?  Ok, then I want to read it.  

There are all sorts. I know people that won't start an unfinished series. They will wait for the final volume. Some people will dive right in to any series. And yes other people will start a series by an author if they think it will be finished promptly. And others who won't by another Rawn book until she finishes her damn trilogy. 

And in the aggregate it of course will affect sales. Interesting question of how much. Be cool to see say Amazon data on this point. 

ETA: it goes without saying that those posting on a board dedicated to a GRRM series will not make a representative sample of these people. 

[Darth Richard II]

Hey, I'd buy a finished Rawn series.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

1 hour ago, Seiche said:

Do others agree with this?  Are most folks this rational and calculating when purchasing a book?  I'm certainly not. Not even close. I read the review of NotW on Onion AV Club, it was very favorable and so I checked the book out from the library to read it.  I liked it enough that I bought it later on.

If everything were the same but I also happened to read a note somewhere that the trilogy wouldn't be completed for 10 years...well I don't think that would have changed too much for me.  Is the book good?  Ok, then I want to read it.  

I started NotW knowing it was unfinished and that TWMF was overdue.  I'm patient as long as I enjoy the finished product.  I enjoyed TWMF.  It wasn't a perfect book.  But I found it a pleasure to read and didn't want it to end when it did.  

[Darth Richard II]

Well, I think a lot of the series appeal depends on if you think the unreliable narrator theory holds water and if all those hints and clues you guys poor over on re reads turn to to, you know, actually BE hints and clues.  I know there's been a couple of series where when we finally got to the end lot of the stuff people obsessed over ended up to be meaningless. But also sometimes not, who knows.

Also, to those of you that think you're owed the next book of a series in a timely fashion, try writing a book sometimes.

[C.T. Phipps]

I think the books are 90% accurate to what happened but Kvothe always frames them in the most favorable manner to himself. The thing is, I'm not sure if Rothfuss is aware he's doing that or not.

Death of the author is a wonderful thing, though.

[Darth Richard II]

As long as we're on a crazy tangent, what do people think about authors like the woman who wrote FIrethorn and I can't remember the name of the sequel, who at last report, hasn't even started planning the next book?

 

I have mixed feelings about it, from what I understand the books didn't sell worth a poop, and she has a full time job or two, but at least working on it, i dunno at all would be nice. But on the other hand, she aint my bitch.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

23 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

Well, I think a lot of the series appeal depends on if you think the unreliable narrator theory holds water and if all those hints and clues you guys poor over on re reads turn to to, you know, actually BE hints and clues.  I know there's been a couple of series where when we finally got to the end lot of the stuff people obsessed over ended up to be meaningless. But also sometimes not, who knows.

Also, to those of you that think you're owed the next book of a series in a timely fashion, try writing a book sometimes.

Darth,

Absolutely!  People act as though producing a superior work of literature is as simple as just siting and writing for X number of hours like it is purely a mechanical process. It isn't and I respect the hell out of anyone who can complete a novel length work of fiction.

[Seiche]

11 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said:

I think the books are 90% accurate to what happened but Kvothe always frames them in the most favorable manner to himself. The thing is, I'm not sure if Rothfuss is aware he's doing that or not.

emphasis mine

This story is not just Rothfuss having Kote tell us a story straight up.  That is unpossible, imho.  Rothfuss is not only aware, his entire focus with the series is to have Kote tell Chronicler one story and simultaneously have the reader successfully tease out the 'truth'.  A tale in three parts: popular legend, Kote's tale, objective reality.

What finally convinced me wasn't the pages of discussion here, or the TOR re-read.  Though admittedly there is enough material in both places to rule out all these clues being accidental or readers just projecting their hopes onto the text.

For me personally, it was @thistlepong's unpacking of The Slow Regard of Silent Things. I did not like that little novella one bit and yet there are so many subtle echos and connections to the main books, that I am now convinced that Rothfuss is for sure trying to weave something clever and elegant and moving through this whole story.  Having that level of effort extant in a little novella like this was what convinced me that it can't be all hot air. Nothing is by accident. 

But that doesn't preclude mistakes or poor execution by the author.  What will be interesting is how well Rothfuss is judged to have 'pulled it off' once Book 3 is completed.  It seems a certainty that Book 3 can not possibly resolve every outstanding line of speculation.  But are the resolutions offered found to be satisfying?  Are there plot twists which elegantly provide answers and links which were unexpected and yet consistent with what came before?

[scortius the charioteer]

16 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

Yeah, I'm used to book series taking way longer than that to finish,. The rate at which some these new SFF authors put out books kinda of astonishes me, particular since a lot of them are so good.

Hey Steven Erikson is a machine, but good god does he need an editor. and I like that series.

[Ninefingers]

Eh, Rothfuss has made some mistakes, over-promising and under-delivering chief among them. But it's a bad dynamic all the way around. See the first comment on his recent blog post, which showed up a couple hours after the post:

Whenever there’s no comments on the blog, I feel like I fucked something up….

He clearly wants/values the love, attention, and feedback he gets from fans. It matters to him. Problem with the feedback mattering so much is that the negative feedback hurts. Because he can't compartmentalize, broad swaths of fans get caught in the crossfire when he acts snarky and hits back. It's too bad.

As for the delay in Book 3 arriving?

1. He's a slow writer, full stop. It was a first class screw up on his part to pretend he was anything else.

2. I'm guessing that the stress of expectations makes writing it not fun. Combine that with a myriad of fun readily available alternatives (Family! Podcasts with Geek Celebrities! Conventions! Etc) and I'm not sure I'd get any writing done if I were in his shoes.

3. There's a lot riding on this book, both personally and professionally. KKC is likely to be the most significant work of his career and what he will be remembered for. How book 3 is received will play a large part in: determining his legacy, whether or not TV/movies happen, and the continued success of his charity. He's the Next Big Thing(TM) in fantasy, but that goes away if he doesn't stick the landing here. It shouldn't come as too much of a surprise that he's taking his time to get it perfect. 

 

[Darth Richard II]

4 hours ago, scortius the charioteer said:

Hey Steven Erikson is a machine, but good god does he need an editor. and I like that series.

Pfft, Erickson is slow! I was thinking of Daniel Abraham and Mark Lawrence.

 

Edit to comment on above, I believe tv/movies are already happening, and not just in the optioned way, there is a  screenplay being written at the moment. I don't venture into the entertainment section often so I'm not sure what the latest update is tough.

[Seiche]

11 minutes ago, Ninefingers said:

2. I'm guessing that the stress of expectations makes writing it not fun. Combine that with a myriad of fun readily available alternatives (Family! Podcasts with Geek Celebrities! Conventions! Etc) and I'm not sure I'd get any writing done if I were in his shoes.

Agree on all points. You are saying here that it's more an issue of being distracted, rather than outright inability to write which seems reasonable.  It does bring to mind the following sentiment on how writer's block is a BS excuse.

Quote

http://archeddoorway.com/2012/11/15/an-interview-with-patrick-rothfuss/

R: Okay, That’s really cool. I think I will have to participate in that. And a bit of a topic change, but you’ve mentioned in the past that you don’t believe in writer’s block. So, what about times when you have trouble transitioning words from your mind to the page?

P: Sometimes it’s hard to write, that’s undeniable. But I think to call it writer’s block is a little unfair. No matter what your job is, some days you wake up and it’s hard to do your job. If you’re a teacher, sometimes the thought of getting up in front of your class is exhausting, or in customer service the thought of being polite to someone is just tough. If you do manual labour, sometimes you’re tired, hung over or whatever… or sometimes you pull a muscle, and it’s not just hard, you almost have an impediment from you doing your job.

But nobody calls that “construction workers block.” It’s not treated as some sort of mythic affliction.

Similarly, a writer can pull a muscle in their head. You can have traumatic events, have someone die, you go through a break-up, or someone cuts you off in traffic and it just pisses you off. That can effectively get your head into such a place that writing is extremely difficult. Part of being a professional writer is learning to manage those elements of your life so that you can still be a productive writer.

This is maybe another example of his personality rubbing people the wrong way. It's off-putting to strut like this and then fail to deliver the goods. Or perhaps, more generously, it highlights the gap that is difficult for most everyone to bridge: the difference between knowing and doing.

[The Marquis de Leech]

Michael Moorcock could churn out (admittedly short) books in three days. He even wrote a guide on how to do it:

http://www.wetasphalt.com/content/how-write-book-three-days-lessons-michael-moorcock

[AncalagonTheBlack]

On 8/29/2016 at 6:51 AM, Darth Richard II said:

As long as we're on a crazy tangent, what do people think about authors like the woman who wrote FIrethorn and I can't remember the name of the sequel, who at last report, hasn't even started planning the next book?

I have mixed feelings about it, from what I understand the books didn't sell worth a poop, and she has a full time job or two, but at least working on it, i dunno at all would be nice. But on the other hand, she aint my bitch.

Wow,thanks for reminding me about her .Another unfinished trilogy!

The author is Sarah Micklem btw and the sequel, Wildfire,came out in 2009.Still waiting for the final book.

[aceluby]

8 hours ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

You're judging by the wrong metric my friend. In terms of books per year, Lawrence writes faster. But when you look at wordcount, Erikson blows him out of the water.

Only because he doesn't have an editor willing to confront these books obvious flaws; that they could all be cut down by at least 1/3rd and be much better works.

[Ninefingers]

20 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

 

Edit to comment on above, I believe tv/movies are already happening, and not just in the optioned way, there is a  screenplay being written at the moment. I don't venture into the entertainment section often so I'm not sure what the latest update is tough.

They've been optioned, but there are many steps between where we are and show actually happening. It could still happen regardless of how book 3 does, but IMO if book 3 flops it lowers the odds of us ever seeing it on screen.

[Ninefingers]

19 hours ago, Seiche said:

Agree on all points. You are saying here that it's more an issue of being distracted, rather than outright inability to write which seems reasonable.  It does bring to mind the following sentiment on how writer's block is a BS excuse.

 

I'd say being distracted is a contributing factor, with the important footnote that I don't judge him for it. 

I know that if I suddenly became a rich celebrity i'd probably start finding uses for my time other than work. Hell, I've got kids and you'd better believe that they cut into my ability to dedicate myself to work.