Jaime the Kingmaker

[Krugal]

 
He feels guilty for Aegon's dead. He never liked Robert being King. I think he likely would try to crown Aegon than Jon.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand. What does crowning Aegon have to do with not liking Robert?

[Scorpion92]

This is exactly my thoughts on Jaime, OP! Good job,couldnt't write it better myself!

I,for one,think that Jaime will fight Jon,King of Winter, in the final Battle of Dawn,they are basically two sides of the same coin. There is a wonderful thread about it somewhere in the forums,look it up.

When Jon proves his heritage (I think that is entire purpose of Drogon in the final battle, to tame and skinchange the dragon to prove that Jon has Targaryen blood and indeed Rhaegar's son,after all, black is Jon's color), Jaime will bend the knee.

His last final task from his king in the story would be saving kidnapped Sansa in King's Landing from Cersei's hands, which will turn out tragically for both twins (and your idea of Jaime going against his family desires,he will confront Mad Cersei), which will result in their deaths and burning of King's Landing. "Sansa Stark is my last chance at honor" as Jaime said.

The rescue mission would also include Arya,Brienne,the Hound and Podrick, from which only Arya,Sansa and Brienne will probably survive, but that's another topic.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I'm sorry, but I don't understand. What does crowning Aegon have to do with not liking Robert?

 

I meant Jaime never liked the idea of Robert being the King. He even calls Rhaegar the real heir of the Iron Throne. He might be a Lannister but he wears Targaryen underwear.

[Robb_Warged]

I could see Jaime being the major death (like what Ned was for GOT, and what the Red Wedding was for ASOS) in TWOW.  I could also see Jaime living to the end of the series though.  Hard to say with these books

[Krugal]

 

I meant Jaime never liked the idea of Robert being the King. He even calls Rhaegar the real heir of the Iron Throne. He might be a Lannister but he wears Targaryen underwear.

Oh, I see. And I agree about the underwear. But i'm curious to know why you think Jaime will back Aegon rather than Jon.

[Krugal]

This is exactly my thoughts on Jaime, OP! Good job,couldnt't write it better myself!

I,for one,think that Jaime will fight Jon,King of Winter, in the final Battle of Dawn,they are basically two sides of the same coin. There is a wonderful thread about it somewhere in the forums,look it up.

When Jon proves his heritage (I think that is entire purpose of Drogon in the final battle, to tame and skinchange the dragon to prove that Jon has Targaryen blood and indeed Rhaegar's son,after all, black is Jon's color), Jaime will bend the knee.

His last final task from his king in the story would be saving kidnapped Sansa in King's Landing from Cersei's hands, which will turn out tragically for both twins (and your idea of Jaime going against his family desires,he will confront Mad Cersei), which will result in their deaths and burning of King's Landing. "Sansa Stark is my last chance at honor" as Jaime said.

The rescue mission would also include Arya,Brienne,the Hound and Podrick, from which only Arya,Sansa and Brienne will probably survive, but that's another topic.

 

Thank you! Interesting, but I don't think Jaime will go north to fight Jon, but rather to fight beside Jon. Interesting about the Sansa rescue mission though, I'd like to hear more about that. 

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Oh, I see. And I agree about the underwear. But i'm curious to know why you think Jaime will back Aegon rather than Jon.

 

Due to timing rather than preferences. If this happens in WoW, Jon is going to be a bit... erm.. out of the game for a while. In the meantime, Aegon is already making his moves.

[Krugal]

 
Due to timing rather than preferences. If this happens in WoW, Jon is going to be a bit... erm.. out of the game for a while. In the meantime, Aegon is already making his moves.

Well sure, but Jaime won't probably hear about Jon being out until sometime late on the long journey to the wall. And by the time he arrives, Jon could very well be back. And then it grows really cold, and suddenly the battle begins...

[A Bastard Snow]

 
Due to timing rather than preferences. If this happens in WoW, Jon is going to be a bit... erm.. out of the game for a while. In the meantime, Aegon is already making his moves.

True but Jamie seems to be tied plotwise to the Starks.
What with Brienne trying to find Sansa/Arya and Jamie going to find Brienne.
I see Brienne finding Arya first (Arya hears the "Black Bastard" was killed will make her leave the FM.)
And Arya will want to go North.

[Krugal]

True but Jamie seems to be tied plotwise to the Starks.
What with Brienne trying to find Sansa/Arya and Jamie going to find Brienne.
I see Brienne finding Arya first (Arya hears the "Black Bastard" was killed will make her leave the FM.)
And Arya will want to go North.

Exactly! I see a lot of people that were in Winterfell in the first book reuniting at the wall in the next book. And Jaime is among them.

[Robb_Warged]

True but Jamie seems to be tied plotwise to the Starks.
What with Brienne trying to find Sansa/Arya and Jamie going to find Brienne.
I see Brienne finding Arya first (Arya hears the "Black Bastard" was killed will make her leave the FM.)
And Arya will want to go North.

Could you elaborate on that?  Do you mean she'll head north to get revenge for Jon's death?  I could see that happening, but I almost feel like the opposite would make more sense; she hears Jon nearly died but is alive.  Therefore Jon needs help.  So she heads North to help him

 

Unless she wants revenge, I feel like hearing about Jon's death would give here even less reason to head back North.  If Jon's dead and she isn't looking for revenge, what would she head North for?  Not insulting your theory, just wondering what you are getting at exactly

[Isobel Harper]

 
Due to timing rather than preferences. If this happens in WoW, Jon is going to be a bit... erm.. out of the game for a while. In the meantime, Aegon is already making his moves.

I agree that Jaime will support Aegon's claim, partly for these reasons. I also consider Jaime's potential relationship with Aegon and Jon. Jaime has a deeper and more conflicted history with Aegon than Jon. He killed Aegon's grandfather and failed to protect his sister and mother. Jon, if aware of R+L, won't have ever truly known these people.

In short, Aegon has been taught to hate Jaime Lannister for nearly 2 decades now; Jon has not.

As the OP reminds us, GRRM prefers to write about the heart in conflict with itself. Aegon will have to decide between revenge and peace, working with and possibly forgiving an old enemy.

[In A Coat of Gold]

Jaime will be leading the defense for Tommen. It's hilarious to think he would back anyone but his nephew, who is a good boy.

[Krugal]

I agree that Jaime will support Aegon's claim, partly for these reasons. I also consider Jaime's potential relationship with Aegon and Jon. Jaime has a deeper and more conflicted history with Aegon than Jon. He killed Aegon's grandfather and failed to protect his sister and mother. Jon, if aware of R+L, won't have ever truly known these people.

In short, Aegon has been taught to hate Jaime Lannister for nearly 2 decades now; Jon has not.

As the OP reminds us, GRRM prefers to write about the heart in conflict with itself. Aegon will have to decide between revenge and peace, working with and possibly forgiving an old enemy.

Well, to be fair there is a lot of conflict between Jon and Jaime as well. Jaime stood by while Aerys executed two Starks, Jaime pushed Bran out the window, he attacked Ned in the streets and killed Jory, he fought Robb in the whispering Woods, the Lannisters killed Ned. And don't forget - "Jaime Lannister sends his regards". So of course Jon probably won't receive Jaime with open arms.

[Isobel Harper]

Well, to be fair there is a lot of conflict between Jon and Jaime as well. Jaime stood by while Aerys executed two Starks, Jaime pushed Bran out the window, he attacked Ned in the streets and killed Jory, he fought Robb in the whispering Woods, the Lannisters killed Ned. And don't forget - "Jaime Lannister sends his regards". So of course Jon probably won't receive Jaime with open arms.

Jon knows nothing about Jaime's connection to Bran's nor about "his regards." You have a point; there is some resentment, I'm sure. But not nearly as much as there should be from Aegon.

[Krugal]

So there seems to be quite a few opinions that Jaime will be Kingmaker, but that he will support Aegon instead of Jon. I guess I can see where this comes from, but I can't really understand it. I guess this has to do with, besides the circumstances I posted in the OP that points to Jon, that I don't really see Aegon as a major player in the central story of ASOIAF. I'm fairly certain he's not real, he's probably Illyrio's son and possibly a Blackfyre, he came in late in the story, he's not a POV character and he probably won't have anything to do with the fight against the Others. One of the main conflicts in the story has always been between Starks and Lannisters, a conflict that should come to some resolution through reconcilliation, rather than one side defeating the other. That's why I think there's an interesting dynamic aspect of Jaime supporting Jon's claim, but I don't really see the dynamic aspects of Jaime supporting a Blackfyre. But I see that opinions differ on this, so I would very much like to explore it further, and hear more opinions from all of you.

[Krugal]

Beautiful Opening Post!
 
I hope this will happen, he most likely will end up as Hand of the King and he'd love it.
He'll probably giggle himself to sleep thinking about it every night.

Thank you!

[Greymoon]

I don't see this (i.e. Jaime installing a king that will kill his own family and kids) happening. Plus, why Jon instead of Aegon?

 

Because Aegon will declare himself King with or without Jaime's help....

 

Here's how Jaime could become Kingmaker for Jon:

 

1) Stannis has to die

2) Jon needs to become a leading figure in the north and rally northerners behind Aegon.

3) Aegon needs to recognize Jon officially as his half-brother

4) Aegon needs to become popular and gain the support of the Riverlands and Vale.

5) Dany needs to land and take Kingslanding before Aegon has time to march on the capital

6) Dany must execute or be responsible directly or indirectly (collateral damage) for Cersei's and Tommen's death

7) Aegon must die at Dany's hand, provoking the general outcry of the mass

 

Jaime, if he survived all that, is then in a position where he can play "Kingmaker" and declare for the last surviving son of Rhaegar....

 

But all that aside, imo, the more likely Kingmaker candidate is not Jaime but Loras Tyrell. iirc, in that chapter where Jaime reflects on the Kingmaker, it's Loras Tyrell that stands before him...plus the rose symbolism in Jon's story line and the fact that the Tyrells and Lannisters are already at odds...

 

Also, the Tyrells might look for another husband for Margaery. JonCon will certainly not allow such a match and Aegon would do well to refuse, the girl is cursed, thrice married, twice widowed.... the Tyrells cannot have the King, but they could, maybe, have the half-brother of uncertain birth...and to a former bastard and starving northerners, the weakened, humbled House Tyrell might be a blessing.

[A Bastard Snow]

Could you elaborate on that?  Do you mean she'll head north to get revenge for Jon's death?  I could see that happening, but I almost feel like the opposite would make more sense; she hears Jon nearly died but is alive.  Therefore Jon needs help.  So she heads North to help him
 
Unless she wants revenge, I feel like hearing about Jon's death would give here even less reason to head back North.  If Jon's dead and she isn't looking for revenge, what would she head North for?  Not insulting your theory, just wondering what you are getting at exactly

No problem.

I will elaborate on it.

Arya blames herself for... well everything (father brother and mother dying) and she has always loved Jon more then everyone.She wanted to go North to see him yet couldn't find passage and instead went to Braavos.
If/when she hears of Jon dying I doubt that she will want to believe that she is truly alone.The FM will probably ask her why a girl cares as it was Arya of House Starks brother who died and she is supposed to be no one.
Arya won't be able to deny that Jon is her brother as she has always thought of him as such and to give up the last member of her pack would be the final loss of her identity.

I imagine her retrieving Needle and going back to Westeros and encountering Brienne (Dunk and Egg 2.0).Then either a Vale trip to encounter Sansa a Riverlands trip to encounter Stoneheart or a North trip for Jon.

IIRC GRRM stated that like the fellowship that lost members and became scattered the Starks will eventually meet up.

I'm still waiting for a moment someone hands Jon Needle and Jon thinks Arya is dead Ala Mithril shirt.

[~DarkHorse~]

I do hope to see Jaime take up an active role in backing a new King.

 

I would prefer to see Jaime take up this role for Jon, rather than another fake claimant. Jaime has already suffered enough dishonour by making/supporting fake Kings. It would be nice to see him get it right for once. I also liked that short scene between Jaime and Jon on the show and hope to see some interaction between them. If anyone will understand Jaime's difficulty with vows, it is Jon.

 

 However, I think it is more likely that he will support (f)Aegon, given his history with Elia and her children and it will create drama if him and Tyrion are on opposing sides.