Marvel Netflix - AKA the Second Thread

[red snow]

 

One would think that if Netflix were able .... (according to CNBC they're burning through money) .... they'd be making as many of these shows as possible, simultaneously.... and Punisher would have his own 10-13 episodes.... I'm sure they'd love to do Blade, Jessica Drew, Nova, the Thunderbolts, or as many as they could as long as these series are making them money, and the reviews are positive... I just don't think that they have the liquidity to do that, and produce other programming...

The internet must have ate my response to this from the other day.

If I had to choose between netflix making more MCU shows over original programming I'm always going to go for the other shows. I want the variety of Narcos, Sense8, Orange is the new black and whatever they are doing next.

Fortunately the first two shows have been distinct and it's entirely optional whether you watch both shows - you certainly don't miss out if you don't. It's not really going to be the case with Luke Cage though where ideally you probably do need to watch AKA to enjoy the Luke Cage show in its entirety. I'm guessing the same will be true of DD season 2 if the proposed Punisher show takes off. This is when multiple shows in the same franchise become problematic. I don't want to feel as though I have to watch season two of Jessicca Jones if I want to follow the next season of Iron Fist. Small crossovers are cool but there should only really be the Defenders where it's assumed you watched the lead in shows. Even then I'd hope Defenders will work in and of itself.

Basically, I don't have to worry about what happens in Sense8 to enjoy Narcos. I'm maybe worrying for nothing but I think Luke Cage will prove whether they can let the shows stand on their own. I'd have thought if Disney/ABC were helping fund the netflix/marvel shows they'd be able to expand their schedule to 3 - 4 shows a year. Especially if they are doing well which seems to be the case.

4 shows a year is fine for Netflix too - especially if they are aiming for 52 shows a year. It allows them to remain diverse and not pigeonhole themselves into a particular category.

If Punisher does get his own show - I'll be hoping we see someone like Blade or Moonknight get a shot. Blade feels like he has a better chance of being like the films in the netflix setting over the film universe.

[The Anti-Targ]

Well original programming is ultimately the way to get and keep subscribers. The added advantage of original programming is that they don't run into broadcast licencing problems in the 100 other countries that have Netflix officially available. They can release their original programmes simultaneously everywhere, whereas programmes they licence off other networks can't be streamed everwhere because local content providers have the rights to broadcast. The more original stuff they have the more they are able to retain and attract international subscribers. Especially now that Netflix has said they are going to put significant effort into blocking people who use VPNs and unblockers to access content not available on their own country's Netflix service. Though I'm not quite sure how much effort they will make, because that means killing off the subscriptions of about 20 million Chinese people, and that is a lot of money to be throwing away.

[red snow]

Well original programming is ultimately the way to get and keep subscribers. The added advantage of original programming is that they don't run into broadcast licencing problems in the 100 other countries that have Netflix officially available. They can release their original programmes simultaneously everywhere, whereas programmes they licence off other networks can't be streamed everwhere because local content providers have the rights to broadcast. The more original stuff they have the more they are able to retain and attract international subscribers. Especially now that Netflix has said they are going to put significant effort into blocking people who use VPNs and unblockers to access content not available on their own country's Netflix service. Though I'm not quite sure how much effort they will make, because that means killing off the subscriptions of about 20 million Chinese people, and that is a lot of money to be throwing away.

Good point. That might be another reason why Netflix doesn't put all its eggs in the Marvel basket. How airtight is the deal between the two? I guess the shows they make are theirs to keep but it could be in 5 years time Marvel decides to make shows for a different distributor eg a Disney online entity (although I sometimes wonder if Disney would just try and buy netflix down the road). I could imagine if Fox bought Netflix we wouldn't be seeing any Marvel characters on netflix (besides the X-men and FF).

I also agree that Netflix probably aren't too fussed where you're watching from as long as you're paying

[-Ghost-]

 

If Punisher does get his own show - I'll be hoping we see someone like Blade or Moonknight get a shot. Blade feels like he has a better chance of being like the films in the netflix setting over the film universe.

I don't really know anything about Moonknight, but I really hope we get Blade. I feel like Netflix is the perfect place for him and Snipes could jump back into the role tomorrow.

 

[The BlackBear]

I don't really know anything about Moonknight, but I really hope we get Blade. I feel like Netflix is the perfect place for him and Snipes could jump back into the role tomorrow.

Moonknight has a kind of Batmanny thing going on. He also has immense mental health issues, he doesn't really know what's real. He sometimes seems to have powers, but it might just be a mind-over-matter thing borne from him thinking he has powers. Used to kill people, now just cripples them. He's fun. He also had a bit of a connection to Echo, who is a deaf native-american hero, which I think it'd be quite nice to see on screen.

My issue with Blade is I sometimes think the Vampires don't blend too well with the rest of the universe.

[RedEyedGhost]

My issue with Blade is I sometimes think the Vampires don't blend too well with the rest of the universe.

Have they ever had a storyline where supers' blood has a different effect on vamps?  That could be very fun to watch.

[Martini Sigil]

The internet must have ate my response to this from the other day.

If I had to choose between netflix making more MCU shows over original programming I'm always going to go for the other shows. I want the variety of Narcos, Sense8, Orange is the new black and whatever they are doing next.

Fortunately the first two shows have been distinct and it's entirely optional whether you watch both shows - you certainly don't miss out if you don't. It's not really going to be the case with Luke Cage though where ideally you probably do need to watch AKA to enjoy the Luke Cage show in its entirety. I'm guessing the same will be true of DD season 2 if the proposed Punisher show takes off. This is when multiple shows in the same franchise become problematic. I don't want to feel as though I have to watch season two of Jessicca Jones if I want to follow the next season of Iron Fist. Small crossovers are cool but there should only really be the Defenders where it's assumed you watched the lead in shows. Even then I'd hope Defenders will work in and of itself.

Basically, I don't have to worry about what happens in Sense8 to enjoy Narcos. I'm maybe worrying for nothing but I think Luke Cage will prove whether they can let the shows stand on their own. I'd have thought if Disney/ABC were helping fund the netflix/marvel shows they'd be able to expand their schedule to 3 - 4 shows a year. Especially if they are doing well which seems to be the case.

4 shows a year is fine for Netflix too - especially if they are aiming for 52 shows a year. It allows them to remain diverse and not pigeonhole themselves into a particular category.

If Punisher does get his own show - I'll be hoping we see someone like Blade or Moonknight get a shot. Blade feels like he has a better chance of being like the films in the netflix setting over the film universe.

Don't get me wrong.... I totally agree.... and I think most people would too...  I was just trying to say that if they could make more Marvel shows --along with their other programming-- I'm sure they would. As a company, Marvel --whether it be TV or film-- has yet to make a dud...

[red snow]

Have they ever had a storyline where supers' blood has a different effect on vamps?  That could be very fun to watch.

I think way back in the spider-ma 90s cartoon (where I was first exposed to Blade), Morbius (essentially the Blade film vampires) prefers to feed off super blood as it's more charged. I think there was a story a few years ago where vampires preferred mutant blood as well.

 

My issue with Blade is I sometimes think the Vampires don't blend too well with the rest of the universe.

I think once Dr Strange (hopefully) opens the doors on the mystical side, it will be a lot easier. If anything it's a good reason to do it in the TV shows which are more insulated. Blade could be a road trip vampire hunter or based somewhere other than New York all the time too.

They could also go the Morbius route and have vampires as a "new" thing. This could bring out the ancient hidden ones (as I guess we need them to explain Blade). The biggest thing holding Blade back is whether Marvel want to make him a movie star again. There was also a worrying "all new" Blade in the works where he's the mentor to his kick-ass daughter. Luckily that's been shelved and never sees the light of day (or maybe it should if it's a vampire show)

Don't get me wrong.... I totally agree.... and I think most people would too...  I was just trying to say that if they could make more Marvel shows --along with their other programming-- I'm sure they would. As a company, Marvel --whether it be TV or film-- has yet to make a dud...

We're on the same page then. I could happily handle 4 netflix marvel shows a year (I gave up on the other marvel shows) if they maintained their current quality.

It maybe hasn't made a dud but Agents of SHIELD season one was hardly great - regardless of whether it improved with season two.  They need to keep aiming for "has yet to make a film or TV show that isn't great" because tons of "ok" isn't healthy for them long term. Westerns probably went through that phase too and it grinds the viewer down over time. Luckily the netflix shows are off to a great start.

[The King in Black]

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/netflix-plotting-punisher-spinoff-starring-856398

 

Looks like Netflix wants to move forward with The Punisher series.

 

Also says that Netflix has invested $1 billion into their original series and wants to have a new series to debut every week of the year. That's crazy.

It suggests the character works really well in the show. Bernthal is a good actor and has screen presence so as long as the story matches it should work out. The Punisher always feels like the most adaptable of Marvel comics for TV. The fact he's human makes it easier to make as well. Plus there are tons of great storylines to pick from.

52 shows a year isn't that insane when you consider traditional stations air more than 52 shows in a a given year on a channel. I stations don't self fund all the shows though or have as high production values. Compared to HBO, FX, Showtime etc it's probably ambitious.

The Punisher is perfect for this Netflix-verse. People often put him down as being nothing more than a gun-trotting thug, but he is so much more. I'm still sort of bummed they didn't cast Stephen Lang as Old Castle, Vietnam vet. That's a missed opportunity right there. 

Moon Knight, in the hands of a competent writer/directer team and a talented actor, will be amazing.

[red snow]

 

 

The Punisher is perfect for this Netflix-verse. People often put him down as being nothing more than a gun-trotting thug, but he is so much more. I'm still sort of bummed they didn't cast Stephen Lang as Old Castle, Vietnam vet. That's a missed opportunity right there. 

Moon Knight, in the hands of a competent writer/directer team and a talented actor, will be amazing.

You think someoe would just need to pitch Moon Knight as "Fight club with superheroes" and they'd get a series. That or a show that's just done quite well (can't mention the name as it would be a spoiler) instead of Fight Club as a pitch.

It could be excellent. Especially if we don't know who all Spectre's personalities are.

Punisher is still far easier to make but I agree with the view that the Punisher doesn't need to be one dimensional or simplistic.

[Bastard of Boston]

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/jessica-jones-renewed-second-season-856423

Jessica Jones confirmed for a season 2.

[red snow]

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/jessica-jones-renewed-second-season-856423

Jessica Jones confirmed for a season 2.

Cool. Look forward to there being a date attached too. At this point surely they have to increase the schedule from 2 shows a year? DD2, AKA2, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Punisher? I'm guessing there's a good chance of a DD season 3 as well

[mormont]

Great news. I'm hoping it won't be too long, but with DD2, Luke Cage, Iron Fist and The Defenders all to come, it does look like a busy schedule... then again, with viewers able to set their own viewing schedule, you can perhaps pack in more releases?

[The Anti-Targ]

Good point. That might be another reason why Netflix doesn't put all its eggs in the Marvel basket. How airtight is the deal between the two? I guess the shows they make are theirs to keep but it could be in 5 years time Marvel decides to make shows for a different distributor eg a Disney online entity (although I sometimes wonder if Disney would just try and buy netflix down the road). I could imagine if Fox bought Netflix we wouldn't be seeing any Marvel characters on netflix (besides the X-men and FF).

I also agree that Netflix probably aren't too fussed where you're watching from as long as you're paying

Netflix didn't used to care where people watched it's US content, but Hollywood does care, as do local broadcasters, andit seems like in most countries there is some form of regulation which puts the onus on Netflix to try to make it difficult for users to view content for which Netflix doesn't have the broadcast / streaming rights.

With JJ2 and Defenders, assuming everything gets a 12 episode season, that's 72 weeks of TV watching if you watch one show per week. As long as their filming schedule can keep up they can release one show every 12 weeks and not have to cycle back to a character until the middle of next year. They can be on a frequent release cycle and yet still have more than a year between each series, which is more than what most series get between seasons.

[Martini Sigil]

We're on the same page then. I could happily handle 4 netflix marvel shows a year (I gave up on the other marvel shows) if they maintained their current quality.

It maybe hasn't made a dud but Agents of SHIELD season one was hardly great - regardless of whether it improved with season two.  They need to keep aiming for "has yet to make a film or TV show that isn't great" because tons of "ok" isn't healthy for them long term. Westerns probably went through that phase too and it grinds the viewer down over time. Luckily the netflix shows are off to a great start.

I certainly can't argue with any of this... the Broadcast TV stuff definitely isn't the same quality.... but IMO, It's about as good as the venue will allow.... regular TV --even at its best-- isn't very good...  It makes one wonder what these shows ... or even the CW/DC shows.... would be like even on a basic cable channel like AMC, FX, etc....

[The Anti-Targ]

Is it because networks seems to be afraid of sex, violence and bad language at prime time? Surely, the industry is not so creatively anaemic as to need those elements to tell good stories in these genres. In the end what makes DD and JJ better than their network counterparts is who the characters are and the quality of actors and directing and the depth that is given to the characters. The shows aren't great because they show some T&A and have more visceral violence and language.

 

[Jack Bauer 24]

Is it because networks seems to be afraid of sex, violence and bad language at prime time? Surely, the industry is not so creatively anaemic as to need those elements to tell good stories in these genres. In the end what makes DD and JJ better than their network counterparts is who the characters are and the quality of actors and directing and the depth that is given to the characters. The shows aren't great because they show some T&A and have more visceral violence and language.

 

DD and JJ are better characters than Batman? 

[AndrewJ]

He was saying the shows are better, not the characters.

And... there isn't a Batman show. (unless you count Gotham, in which case the Netflix shows are far, far better)

[The Anti-Targ]

18 hours ago, Jack Bauer 24 said:

DD and JJ are better characters than Batman? 

In terms of source material maybe, maybe not, depends on your preferences. In terms of how these characters have been translated onto live actions TV screens, yep, they sure are. Of course there's almost zero chance of Batman ever making it back onto the small screen as a live action headliner, since his value is all in the cinema now. So perhaps you want to compare the presentation of JJ and DD on Netflix to some other superheros that have had a more recent showing on TV. Supergirl perhaps? That show is OK but it doesn't hold a candle to JJ or DD. And I think we've already established that most people regard JJ and DD as superior shows, and better presented characters than Flash, Arrow and his cohort and AoS.

 

[The King in Black]

15 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

In terms of source material maybe, maybe not, depends on your preferences. In terms of how these characters have been translated onto live actions TV screens, yep, they sure are. Of course there's almost zero chance of Batman ever making it back onto the small screen as a live action headliner, since his value is all in the cinema now. So perhaps you want to compare the presentation of JJ and DD on Netflix to some other superheros that have had a more recent showing on TV. Supergirl perhaps? That show is OK but it doesn't hold a candle to JJ or DD. And I think we've already established that most people regard JJ and DD as superior shows, and better presented characters than Flash, Arrow and his cohort and AoS.

 

Being on Netflix does make a HUGE difference though. It gives the showrunners freedom. Imagine JJ on ABC. Network brings a shittone of  general restrictions, with each network then having it's own set of conditions and demands that the TV show must navigate through. Now I'm not claiming that this means that the network shows would have been better than these Netflix shows had they also moved on the Internet. But you are fooling yourself if you believe that the medium  makes no difference.