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Horn of Winter (ALL SPOILERS)


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The Horn of Winter may have already been blown. Twice.

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The hour of the wolf found him still awake, wrapped in layers of heavy wool and greasy fur, walking yet another circuit of the inner walls, hoping to exhaust himself enough to sleep.

His legs were caked with snow to the knee, his head and shoulders shrouded in white. On this stretch of the wall the wind was in his face, and melting snow ran down his cheeks like icy tears.

Then he heard the horn.

A long low moan, it seemed to hang above the battlements, lingering in the black air, soaking deep into the bones of every man who heard it. All along the castle walls, sentries turned toward the sound, their hands tightening around the shafts of their spears. In the ruined halls and keeps of Winterfell, lords hushed other lords, horses nickered, and sleepers stirred in their dark corners. No sooner had the sound of the warhorn died away than a drum began to beat: BOOM doom BOOM doom BOOM doom. And a name passed from the lips of each man to the next, written in small white puffs of breath. Stannis, they whispered, Stannis is here, Stannis is come, Stannis, Stannis, Stannis.

Theon shivered. Baratheon or Bolton, it made no matter to him. Stannis had made common cause with Jon Snow at the Wall, and Jon would take his head off in a heartbeat. Plucked from the clutches of one bastard to die at the hands of another, what a jape. Theon would have laughed aloud if he'd remembered how.

The drumming seemed to be coming from the wolfswood beyond the Hunter's Gate. They are just outside the walls. Theon made his way along the wallwalk, one more man amongst a score doing the same. But even when they reached the towers that flanked the gate itself, there was nothing to be seen beyond the veil of white.

"Do they mean to try and blow our walls down?" japed a Flint when the warhorn sounded once again. "Mayhaps he thinks he's found the Horn of Joramun."

A Ghost In Winterfell, Dance 46

So Mance is in Winterfell pretending to be Able the bard. He had searched the Frostfangs looking for the fabled Horn of Joramun, but only found an old giants' horn. Now back in Winterfell, he has a chance to search the crypts, or another chance if he had meant to try during King Roberts visit. Did Mance finally find the Horn of Joramun, hidden in the crypts of Winterfell? The sound is described as "soaking deep into the bones of every man who heard it". The Dragonbinder horn blown at the Kingsmoot was similarly described as "a shivering hot scream that made a man's bones seem to thrum within him". Theon hears the horn sound twice just before the end of the chapter. If Mance is the one sounding the horn, two blasts is significant. When Dragonbinder was blown three times the man winding the call died. The Night's Watch uses two blasts to indicate 'wildlings' and three to indicate white-walkers. So if the Horn of Joramun is sounded three times does that bring down the wall and aid the Others?

Three chapters later we're back at the wall, and guess what happens at the end of the chapter?

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The bastard refused his father' s seat. If the bastard had wanted Val, all he had to do was ask for her. "You must excuse me, ser," he said. "I need a breath of fresh air." It stinks in here. His head turned. "That was a horn."

Others had heard it too. The music and the laughter died at once. Dancers froze in place, listening. Even Ghost pricked up his ears. "Did you hear that?" Queen Selyse asked her knights.

"A warhorn, Your Grace," said Ser Narbert.

The queen's hand went fluttering to her throat. "Are we under attack?"

"No, Your Grace," said Ulmer of the Kingswood. "It's the watchers on the Wall, is all."

One blast, thought Jon Snow. Rangers returning. Then it came again. The sound seemed to fill the cellar. "Two blasts," said Mully.

Black brothers, northmen, free folk, Thenns, queen's men, all of them fell quiet, listening. Five heartbeats passed. Ten. Twenty. Then Owen the Oaf tittered, and Jon Snow could breathe again. "Two blasts," he announced. "Wildlings." Val.

Tormund Giantsbane had come at last.

Jon X, Dance 49

So Mance, if he found the horn, is in a way, announcing the arrival of wildlings at the wall, same as the Nights Watch a few chapters later. And in a sense, he is 'bringing the wall down' to allow for the wildlings to pass through. So it's probably a good thing he didn't do three.

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Compare these two weapons:

On ‎2‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 0:02 AM, Lost Melnibonean said:

that big black . . .

. . . horn.

Jon sucked in his breath.

A warhorn, a bloody great warhorn.

Yes," Mance said. "The Horn of Winter, that Joramun once blew to wake giants from the earth."

The horn was huge, eight feet along the curve and so wide at the mouth that he could have put his arm inside up to the elbow. If this came from an aurochs, it was the biggest that ever lived. At first he thought the bands around it were bronze, but when he moved closer he realized they were gold. Old gold, more brown than yellow, and graven with runes.

and:

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Stannis drew his longsword. Lightbringer, Melisandre had named it; the red sword of heroes, drawn from the fires where the seven gods were consumed. The room seemed to grow brighter as the blade slid from its scabbard. The steel had a glow to it; now orange, now yellow, now red. The air shimmered around it, and no jewel had ever sparkled so brilliantly.

What do these two weapons have in common? They are both likely to be fake. Whenever a character declares that he is a hero, and brags that he possesses a legendary weapon, he is most likely deceiving himself (and the reader).

GRRM prefers the trope of the unlikely, reluctant hero, who refuses the call to greatness, yet achieves greatness nevertheless, to the bombastic, self-declared, self-righteous sort. He champions those who are less flashy, those who are yet to emerge from the shadows, the 'underdogs' (e.g. Sandor/The Hound) or the 'underground' (e.g. Bran).

Just as there are 'true' vs. 'false' knights, there are also 'true' vs. 'false' weapons. If a weapon, or person, is too ostentatious, colorful, larger-than-life, all-superlatives-apply, and 'too good to be true,' we are alerted to doubt its authenticity.

Significantly, it takes a blind man to 'see' the truth of it, when he cautions Sam, the 'everyman' (which includes us readers), to look beyond the façade, and not to be taken in by the 'empty glamor' and 'false light' that immediately attracts the eye (the 'true seeing' is a theme running through the books... e.g. Arya, Syrio, FM, etc.):

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. . . we all deceive ourselves, when we want to believe. Melisandre most of all, I think. The sword is wrong, she has to know that . . . light without heat . . . an empty glamor . . . the sword is wrong, and the false light can only lead us deeper into darkness, Sam.

 

In this light, it's interesting that when Tywin tries to create a sword for Joffrey to rival Stannis's, the armorer is unable to achieve the flashy coloring Tywin has ordered:

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A few master armorers could rework old Valyrian steel, but the secrets of its making had been lost when the Doom came to old Valyria. "The colors are strange," he commented as he turned the blade in the sunlight. Most Valyrian steel was a grey so dark it looked almost black, as was true here as well. But blended into the folds was a red as deep as the grey. The two colors lapped over one another without ever touching, each ripple distinct, like waves of night and blood upon some steely shore. "How did you get this patterning? I've never seen anything like it."

 

"Nor I, my lord," said the armorer. "I confess, these colors were not what I intended, and I do not know that I could duplicate them. Your lord father had asked for the crimson of your House, and it was that color I set out to infuse into the metal. But Valyrian steel is stubborn. These old swords remember, it is said, and they do not change easily. I worked half a hundred spells and brightened the red time and time again, but always the color would darken, as if the blade was drinking the sun from it. And some folds would not take the red at all, as you can see. If my lords of Lannister are displeased, I will of course try again, as many times as you should require, but - "

"No need," Lord Tywin said. "This will serve."

"A crimson sword might flash prettily in the sun, but if truth be told I like these colors better," said Tyrion. "They have an ominous beauty . . . and they make this blade unique. There is no other sword like it in all the world, I should think."

The sword (originally Ice) by retaining its true colors resists Tywin's deception. By remaining true to itself (i.e. that it is and always will be Ice, no matter how many times it dances with fire), the sword stubbornly affirms the truth of its identity, while simultaneously contradicting Tyrion's Lannister lie, in the assertion that the blade is 'unique. There is no other sword like it in the world.'

Here, 'truth' is not synonymous with light, as Melisandre would have it. On the contrary, 'truth' is located in the dark: 'a grey so dark it looked almost black, as was true here...these old swords remember...always the color would darken, as if the blade was drinking the sun from it.' It follows, if we are looking for 'truth,' we should be wary of those who 'flash prettily in the sun,' blinding us from the 'truth' with their bright light.

By GRRM's perverse, inverse, 'dark' logic, one would expect the 'real' hero and the 'real' weapon to be overlooked. Just as 'cripples, bastards, and broken things' have pride-of-place in the arc of his narrative, we could expect the most powerful, talismanic weapons to be hiding in plain sight. Accordingly, we should also look out for unlikely weapons, including those which seem dull, ordinary, coarse, scuffed, rusted, broken, dingy, forgotten, abandoned, useless, etc.-- and those which don't seem like conventional weapons at all. By these criteria, Sam's horn-- and Sam himself-- are likely candidates for greatness:

On ‎2‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 0:02 AM, Lost Melnibonean said:

Beneath the dragonglass was an old warhorn, made from an auroch's horn and banded in bronze. Jon shook the dirt from inside it, and a stream of arrowheads fell out. He let them fall, and pulled up a corner of the cloth the weapons had been wrapped in, rubbing it between his fingers. Good wool, thick, a double weave, damp but not rotted. It could not have been long in the ground. And it was dark. He seized a handful and pulled it close to the torch. Not dark. Black.

 

On ‎2‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 0:02 AM, Lost Melnibonean said:

The warhorn he had given to Sam. On closer examination the horn had proved cracked, and even after he had cleaned all the dirt out, Jon had been unable to get any sound from it. The rim was chipped as well, but Sam liked old things, even worthless old things. "Make a drinking horn out of it," Jon told him, "and every time you take a drink you'll remember how you ranged beyond the Wall, all the way to the Fist of the First Men." He gave Sam a spearhead and a dozen arrowheads as well

 

On ‎2‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 0:02 AM, Lost Melnibonean said:

His swordbelt hung from a peg on the wall, beside the old cracked horn that Jon had given him

 

On ‎2‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 0:02 AM, Lost Melnibonean said:

Whenever Sam thought of the cache Jon had found buried beneath the Fist, it made him want to cry. There'd been dagger blades and spearheads, and two or three hundred arrowheads at least. Jon had made daggers for himself, Sam, and Lord Commander Mormont, and he'd given Sam a spearhead, an old broken horn, and some arrowheads

So, 'Sam's' horn is 'old,' 'dirty,' 'broken,' 'cracked,' and 'chipped.' Like Sam himself, it is considered 'worthless' to a casual eye. In contrast to Mance's horn, it is of relatively modest size and made of humble materials. After Jon had been 'unable to get a sound out of it,' he suggests that it is only fit to be kept as a memento, or used as a 'drinking horn.' But, if it can't be sounded, isn't it little more than an empty vessel?

There are clues, however, that this 'empty' horn might hold great promise. Notably, the horn is always mentioned in conjunction with weapons (e.g. it hangs at the ready, beside Sam's swordbelt). It was found amidst a stash of sundry weapons, which proved surprisingly invaluable later on (e.g. dragonglass). In keeping with GRRM's trope of the dormant, underground hero ('the sleeper must awaken'), the fact that the horn was literally discovered underground, wrapped in a dark cloth, is a further hint that great things are in store (or, alternatively, that terrifying things await!) Moreover, the horn was dug up by Ghost's uncanny sense, as if it were buried treasure. A mute horn dug up by a mute, magical wolf...Those who are silent are not to be underestimated! All things considered, one might anticipate that the horn has the potential someday to be employed in a war context.

Another hint that we are dealing with a bona fide warhorn is all the martial imagery surrounding Sam. As others have picked up, Sam is 'from Hornhill,' the seat of House Tarly, who are legendary hunters and fighters, including Sam's namesake, styled 'Savage Sam' for his prowess in battle during 'the Vulture Hunt.' Sam even has a similar nickname:

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Grenn looked away. "He killed one of the Others, Jon. I saw it. He stabbed him with that dragonglass knife you made him, and we started calling him Sam the Slayer. He hated that."

Sam the Slayer. Jon could hardly imagine a less likely warrior than Sam Tarly

An unlikely warrior-- that in itself should be a tip-off that he is destined for greatness! In GRRM's universe, anyone who declares himself a great warrior/king and trumpets his great destiny (e.g. Stannis, Joffrey) is likely to meet an ignominious dead-end. Conversely, someone who avoids the limelight, and is regularly sidelined, ridiculed endlessly for his lack of warrior skills, and given a derisive, ironic warrior nickname, is highly likely to end up playing a major role on the frontlines of some decisive battle! It's significant, also, that Sam refuses to acknowledge his own bravery, and hates his nickname-- although when it counts, he does not shrink from acting, ironically living up to his nickname, and proving his worth. 

Other related GRRM maxims: Those who seem small, weak and benign (e.g. Littlefinger, the Imp), actually loom large, and are surprisingly strong and dangerous. Those who covet and flaunt power (e.g. Cersei) will have it stripped away. Conversely, those who abjure power (e.g. Jaime, Jon) will attract it abundantly. Thus shall it be with Samwell, our humble hobbit, on his reluctant mission:

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"You never liked Ser Alliser to call you Aurochs."

"He was saying I was big and stupid." Grenn scratched at his beard. "If Pyp wanted to call me Aurochs, though, he could. Or you, or Jon. An aurochs is a fierce strong beast, so that's not so bad, and I am big, and getting bigger. Wouldn't you rather be Sam the Slayer than Ser Piggy?"

"Why can't I just be Samwell Tarly?" He sat down heavily on a wet log that Grenn had yet to split. "It was the dragonglass that slew it. Not me, the dragonglass."

I can just imagine Sam saying, 'it was the horn that did it. Not me, the horn!' after a cascade of epic events has been unleashed. Sam kicks against his destiny, even while GRRM is steering him on that ineluctable course. Sam asks 'Why can't I just be Samwell Tarly?' Ironically, despite all his efforts to the contrary, Sam is becoming Samwell Tarly, the Hunter of Horn Hill, walking in his ancestors' footsteps, slowly growing into the embodiment of his sigil:

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he let out a whoop, and shouted, "Run and bar the doors, lads, it's Sam the Slayer come back from the grave,"

 

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"Ours is a striding huntsman," Samwell Tarly said.

"Do you like to hunt?"

The fat boy shuddered. "I hate it." He looked as though he was going to cry again.

Against all odds, Sam will become 'the striding huntsman,' and now, conveniently, he is in possession of a huntsman's hunting horn. The only question is: when will that horn sound, who will sound it, who will it summon, to what end? Who will be the hunter, and whom the hunted?

My feeling is that Sam will be the one to sound the horn. Apart from all the hunting imagery associated with him, he is the embodiment of another of GRRM's pet tropes, 'kill the boy,' if you will...namely, coming of age, coming into ones own, shedding ones awkwardness, and finding ones true voice-- for which the (currently) mute horn is a metaphor.

When we first meet Sam, he is a tremulous, wimpy boy, who has no presence and no voice. He is repeatedly characterized as losing his voice, speaking in a barely audible whisper or distorted squeak, or stammering and stuttering, and generally wilting away in the face of authority:

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"My name is Samwell Tarly, of Horn …" He stopped and licked his lips. "I mean, I was of Horn Hill, until I … left. I've come to take the black. My father is Lord Randyll, a bannerman to the Tyrells of Highgarden. I used to be his heir, only..." His voice trailed off.

.

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"NO," Samwell Tarly squeaked.

Jon was startled. Sam's nervous, high-pitched voice was the last he would have expected to hear. The fat boy was frightened of the officers, and Ser Jaremy was not known for his patience.

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Talk of butchery reduced Samwell Tarly to speechlessness. Mormont leaned forward. "Tarly, when I was a lad half your age, my lady mother told me that if I stood about with my mouth open, a weasel was like to mistake it for his lair and run down my throat. If you have something to say, say it. Otherwise, beware of weasels." He waved a brusque dismissal. "Off with you, I'm too busy for folly. No doubt the maester has some work you can do."

Sam swallowed, stepped back, and scurried out so quickly he almost tripped over the rushes

So, Sam's task is to find his voice, literally and metaphorically. A mouth is not a weasel's lair; it's meant for speaking ones mind. Similarly, a horn is not a drinking vessel; it's meant for martialing the troops and co-ordinating the hunt (or, maybe something else...).

Increasingly, he is learning to speak out, take a stand, and assert himself. Not unlike the author who created him, Sam finds his voice, literally, through language. Early self-transformation occurs through his work with Maester Aemon, reading Maester Aemon's letters out loud to him, as well as researching and writing, and teaching the ravens how to speak:

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The birds flapped their wings at Jon's approach and screamed at him through the bars. A few shrieks sounded suspiciously like words. "Have you been teaching them to talk?" he asked Sam.
"A few words. Three of them can say snow."

 

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The gods play cruel jests, Jon thought. Pyp and Toad, all a lather to be a part of the great ranging, were to remain at Castle Black. It was Samwell Tarly, the self-proclaimed coward, grossly fat, timid, and near as bad a rider as he was with a sword, who must face the haunted forest. The Old Bear was taking two cages of ravens, so they might send back word as they went. Maester Aemon was blind and far too frail to ride with them, so his steward must go in his place. "We need you for the ravens, Sam. And someone has to help me keep Grenn humble."
Sam's chins quivered. "You could care for the ravens, or Grenn could, or anyone," he said with a thin edge of desperation in his voice. "I could show you how. You know your letters too, you could write down Lord Mormont's messages as well as I."

Because his knowledge of communication was required on the journey, Sam ended up killing a White Walker!

Like Tyrion, Sam is an unlikely warrior, whose most potent weapon is his quick mind and his facility with language. A good example of Sam's newfound skills and growing confidence is when he uses his rhetorical tricks in order to manipulate the candidates running for LC of the Night's Watch into voting for Jon.

A final thought on the connection between voice, identity, politics, war, and memory...Because the series is entitled 'A Song' of ice and fire, which has been linked to Rhaegar's musical prowess, I'm always on the look-out for those who are gifted warrior-singers, or singer-warriors, and Sam could be one of these. We're told that even as a child, Sam found his voice in song: 'he loved to listen to music and make his own songs.' And Gilly confirms he has a good voice. A horn can be a weapon, a drinking vessel, a memento, as well as a musical instrument-- and, as such, we can expect Sam to play it! I also have a suspicion that Sam might make Heartsbane sing...

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18 minutes ago, LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse said:

Winter Horn = Sams horn

Wakes the Giants from the Earth = Earthquake..

Of this im 100% sure.

Question remains how and why Sam will blow that horn.

I think Sam's horn is the real reason why Euron wants to attack Oldtown, there are many textual references implying that Euron is transformed by his travels in Essos and might be controlled by some force (Bloodraven most likely if you ask me) and he does not give rat's ass about ironborn or becoming King of Westeros, he is on another mission which will be revealed to us. Even his personal sigil of crows and an eye should give us some suspicions.

Once Euron gets in possession of Sam's horn, he will order it transported to Pyke. Of course, Sam will slay Euron by putting an arrow through his eye (Crow's Eye? duh! Thanks to Fire Eater!), but before his death Euron will succeed in transporting the horn to iron Isles. Whoever blows the horn at Pyke will bring disaster to the Isles. Maybe Lord Gorold Goodbrother will blow the horn since the horn is the sigil of their house?

My personal theory is that Pyke and Iron Isles would be destroyed by tsunami (Hammer of Waters) and be drowned (the irony?) when Long Night comes, and Euron is doing exactly what Bran/Bloodraven have planned. That is why Theon has some storyline left to fulfill, he will travel to Iron Isles again as messenger of Old Gods (the reason Bran communicates with him) and lead them to the mainland, particularly after religious standout with his uncle Aeron who will be the new King-Priest of Iron Isles after Euron and Victarion's deaths. After the catastrophe ironborn will follow Theon as their new leader and convert to Old Gods religion. I think Theon will sail with surviving ironborn from drowned Isles to Cape Kraken in the North, where they will bend the knee to King of Winter, Jon Stark, who embodies the phrase "what is dead may never die but rises again harder and stronger".

The ironborn who went with Victarion will eventually bend the knee to Daenerys and probably become followers of Red God witnessing her "Fire and Blood" campaign in Essos and Southern Westeros. In the eventual Battle of the Dawn, two ironborn camps will fight each other, as one camp are affected by Old Gods (Hammer of Waters) and ice magic, another - Red God and fire.

That is how I see it personally.

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2 hours ago, Scorpion92 said:

I think Sam's horn is the real reason why Euron wants to attack Oldtown, there are many textual references implying that Euron is transformed by his travels in Essos and might be controlled by some force (Bloodraven most likely if you ask me) and he does not give rat's ass about ironborn or becoming King of Westeros, he is on another mission which will be revealed to us. Even his personal sigil of crows and an eye should give us some suspicions.

Once Euron gets in possession of Sam's horn, he will order it transported to Pyke. Of course, Sam will slay Euron by putting an arrow through his eye (Crow's Eye? duh! Thanks to Fire Eater!), but before his death Euron will succeed in transporting the horn to iron Isles. Whoever blows the horn at Pyke will bring disaster to the Isles. Maybe Lord Gorold Goodbrother will blow the horn since the horn is the sigil of their house?

My personal theory is that Pyke and Iron Isles would be destroyed by tsunami (Hammer of Waters) and be drowned (the irony?) when Long Night comes, and Euron is doing exactly what Bran/Bloodraven have planned. That is why Theon has some storyline left to fulfill, he will travel to Iron Isles again as messenger of Old Gods (the reason Bran communicates with him) and lead them to the mainland, particularly after religious standout with his uncle Aeron who will be the new King-Priest of Iron Isles after Euron and Victarion's deaths. After the catastrophe ironborn will follow Theon as their new leader and convert to Old Gods religion. I think Theon will sail with surviving ironborn from drowned Isles to Cape Kraken in the North, where they will bend the knee to King of Winter, Jon Stark, who embodies the phrase "what is dead may never die but rises again harder and stronger".

The ironborn who went with Victarion will eventually bend the knee to Daenerys and probably become followers of Red God witnessing her "Fire and Blood" campaign in Essos and Southern Westeros. In the eventual Battle of the Dawn, two ironborn camps will fight each other, as one camp are affected by Old Gods (Hammer of Waters) and ice magic, another - Red God and fire.

That is how I see it personally.

There is no evidence at all Bloodraven has anything to do with Euron. I don't buy any of this.

Yes, something weird is going on with Euron, but it is the oposite side of the coin from Bloodraven. Euron has blue lips from drinking shade of the evening. He is connected to warlocks. IMO this series of books is exploring an overarching theme of balance, not good versus evil, and one of the more obvious references to that balance, other than the series title, is the House of Black and White. Their doors are weirwood AND EBONY. What bloodraven represents: it has a counterpart.

In AFfC "Garin tells Arianne Martell that according to sailors in Planky Town, a new corsair king has risen in the Basilisk Isles and has raided Tall Trees Town." (wiki)

I am pretty sure this is Euron. He is connected to the oposite end of the spectrum from Bloodraven, having spent years in the Summer Islands, Valyria, maybe Asshai, etc.

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For the horn, I don't know. More likely a simple horn used by the rangers. A red herring. What would the fucking Horn of Winter doing there? The true horn could as much be a drinking horn gifted to Robert some years ago.

To me, Bloodraven and Euron are the magical equivalents of Littlefinfer and Varys. The players of another game, much more important than the Iron Throne.

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8 hours ago, Scorpion92 said:

I think Sam's horn is the real reason why Euron wants to attack Oldtown, there are many textual references implying that Euron is transformed by his travels in Essos and might be controlled by some force (Bloodraven most likely if you ask me) and he does not give rat's ass about ironborn or becoming King of Westeros, he is on another mission which will be revealed to us. Even his personal sigil of crows and an eye should give us some suspicions.

Once Euron gets in possession of Sam's horn, he will order it transported to Pyke. Of course, Sam will slay Euron by putting an arrow through his eye (Crow's Eye? duh! Thanks to Fire Eater!), but before his death Euron will succeed in transporting the horn to iron Isles. Whoever blows the horn at Pyke will bring disaster to the Isles. Maybe Lord Gorold Goodbrother will blow the horn since the horn is the sigil of their house?

My personal theory is that Pyke and Iron Isles would be destroyed by tsunami (Hammer of Waters) and be drowned (the irony?) when Long Night comes, and Euron is doing exactly what Bran/Bloodraven have planned. That is why Theon has some storyline left to fulfill, he will travel to Iron Isles again as messenger of Old Gods (the reason Bran communicates with him) and lead them to the mainland, particularly after religious standout with his uncle Aeron who will be the new King-Priest of Iron Isles after Euron and Victarion's deaths. After the catastrophe ironborn will follow Theon as their new leader and convert to Old Gods religion. I think Theon will sail with surviving ironborn from drowned Isles to Cape Kraken in the North, where they will bend the knee to King of Winter, Jon Stark, who embodies the phrase "what is dead may never die but rises again harder and stronger".

The ironborn who went with Victarion will eventually bend the knee to Daenerys and probably become followers of Red God witnessing her "Fire and Blood" campaign in Essos and Southern Westeros. In the eventual Battle of the Dawn, two ironborn camps will fight each other, as one camp are affected by Old Gods (Hammer of Waters) and ice magic, another - Red God and fire.

That is how I see it personally.

 

I like it.

It fits nicely a couple of theories that i believe in. Except that i think Victarion will die soon after the battle of fire.

 

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6 hours ago, Hippocras said:

There is no evidence at all Bloodraven has anything to do with Euron. I don't buy any of this.

Yes, something weird is going on with Euron, but it is the oposite side of the coin from Bloodraven. Euron has blue lips from drinking shade of the evening. He is connected to warlocks. IMO this series of books is exploring an overarching theme of balance, not good versus evil, and one of the more obvious references to that balance, other than the series title, is the House of Black and White. Their doors are weirwood AND EBONY. What bloodraven represents: it has a counterpart.

In AFfC "Garin tells Arianne Martell that according to sailors in Planky Town, a new corsair king has risen in the Basilisk Isles and has raided Tall Trees Town." (wiki)

I am pretty sure this is Euron. He is connected to the oposite end of the spectrum from Bloodraven, having spent years in the Summer Islands, Valyria, maybe Asshai, etc.

 

It is a bit crackpot, but there is sooome evidence.

https://madeinmyr.wordpress.com/2015/02/21/a-black-eye-shining-with-malice-thoughts-concerning-eurons-black-magic-and-potential-dark-powers/

 

As for the corsair king, it is the same pirate king that was buying unsullied in ASOS.

I don`t think he is euron.

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17 minutes ago, LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse said:

 

It is a bit crackpot, but there is sooome evidence.

https://madeinmyr.wordpress.com/2015/02/21/a-black-eye-shining-with-malice-thoughts-concerning-eurons-black-magic-and-potential-dark-powers/

 

As for the corsair king, it is the same pirate king that was buying unsullied in ASOS.

I don`t think he is euron.

Yes, there is evidence that Euron has crow symbolism going on, and that is connected somewhat to greenseer potential. But why does that necessarily mean Bloodraven is involved? Ravens, weirwoods, greenseers...all of that predated Bloodraven. He is not the source of such things.

And why can't Euron be the Corsair King? The Corsair King bought unsullied or wanted to, and then invaded Tall Trees Town. Tall Trees Town is a place of magical carved trees no less. Frankly it seems to fit well in terms of both timing and magic.

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16 minutes ago, Hippocras said:

Yes, there is evidence that Euron has crow symbolism going on, and that is connected somewhat to greenseer potential. But why does that necessarily mean Bloodraven is involved? Ravens, weirwoods, greenseers...all of that predated Bloodraven. He is not the source of such things.

And why can't Euron be the Corsair King? The Corsair King bought unsullied or wanted to, and then invaded Tall Trees Town. Tall Trees Town is a place of magical carved trees no less. Frankly it seems to fit well in terms of both timing and magic.

 

I suppose it depends on how old is euron. If the theory is correct, when he was a child, a greenseer reached for him in a dream similar to Bran`s.

Bloodraven is the "last greenseer".

Because in AFFC Euron returns to the Iron Islands, while the "corsair king" from the basilisk islands is conquering the summer isles. Timeline doens`t fit IMHO.

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