Should protestors be able to unilaterally declare a public space a private space then keep out reporters/ Intellectual Freedom on College campuses

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

We were discussing this before the board was reset:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/10/us/university-missouri-protesters-block-journalists-press-freedom.html?_r=0

From the link:

 

As the video nears its end, the person taking the video,

Mark Schierbecker

 emerged from the scrum and approached a woman, later identified as an assistant professor of mass media,

Melissa Click

, close to the tents. When he revealed that he was a journalist, Ms. Click appeared to grab at his camera.

She then yelled, “Who wants to help me get this reporter out of here? I need some muscle over here.”

At another point in the video, Mr. Tai was also challenged by a university employee. Janna Basler, the director of Greek life and leadership on campus, approached Mr. Tai and, spreading her arms out, demanded that he “back off.”

As he tried to defend his right to be there, Ms. Basler explained, “You are infringing on what they need right now, which is to be alone.”

Ms. Basler and Ms. Click could not be reached for comment.

As I stated earlier I think this deserves a seperate topic simply because it is distinct from the issue that gave rise to the protests.  I don't believe a protest should be able to unilaterally declare a public space, like this quad on the U of Missouri campus, private "safe space".  If they want "Safe Space" they need to remove themselves from the public land they have set up camp upon.  If the same logic these protesters were applying were used by say, police officers, they would be justified in insisting that people not film them.

These protestors do not have the right to come into a public setting, set up their camp, and demand everyone else, particularly the media, look away.  That isn't how freedom of speech and freedom of the press work.  The kids are kids and problably didn't know better, the administrator for Greek life Ms. Basler, and the Professor Dr. Click absolutely should have known better.

[eta]

Adding to the thread title to reflect the evolution of the discussion

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

I'd have more sympathetic if they weren't in the middle of the Public Quad on the campus of a public university.  You don't get to declare an expressly punlic space private because you feel like it.

[AverageGuy]

Can a public space be reserved for a private event though? Not thinking of an outdoor quad necessarily, thinking of the student union site from the thread a couple months back. This issue I don't support, that I did, and I'm having trouble defining what the line is.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Sure, that's not what has happened here.

[Swordfish]

What kind fo protest turns away media attention?  Doesn't that sort of defeat the purpose?

 

Those students come off as entitled douches.

 

Hopefully the university employees who should have known better, but instead escalated the situation, receive discipline.

 

 

[Squab]

South Park has done a good job this season of parodying this kind of thing.

I don't think they should be able to occupy a space that isn't strictly theirs and keep others, especially the press, out.  This kind of thing is happening more and more at universities, here in Aus, the student unions booted reporters out of student election meeting.  It got quite funny, a phone was stolen, the power was cut deliberately and the police were called in.

[Tyrellius]

This, along with the Yale kerfuffle, has really had me shaking my head this week.  

[Joe Pesci]

Well, the backlash has begun, it's rather pathetic that there are adults using passive aggressive bullying on a student.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/missouri-concerned-student-1950-protests-012440030.html

[zelticgar]

I was surprised at how "involved" the faculty was with the protest. I went to a small college and the faculty tended not to mingle much with the students outside of academic events. The Missouri faculty members seemed like they were the ringleaders of the protest which is kind of surprising to me. I'm way out of the loop on college culture so it might be a normal thing but it just seems kind of weird to me, like they were way over-involved and acting on the same level as the students. 

The idea of trying to block a media rep from doing their job in a public space is ridiculous but it seems like a lot of things that go on in campus life are ridiculous.

[Fragile Bird]

I feel like it's deja vu all over again.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

FB,

Because I had to recreate my topic?

[Hayyoth]

I was surprised at how "involved" the faculty was with the protest. I went to a small college and the faculty tended not to mingle much with the students outside of academic events. The Missouri faculty members seemed like they were the ringleaders of the protest which is kind of surprising to me. I'm way out of the loop on college culture so it might be a normal thing but it just seems kind of weird to me, like they were way over-involved and acting on the same level as the students. 

The idea of trying to block a media rep from doing their job in a public space is ridiculous but it seems like a lot of things that go on in campus life are ridiculous.

It's definitely a very strange happenstance, even for these weird times. A protest over alleged racist incidents, with minimal to no evidence that the event that was said to have happened actually occurred, a swastika written on a dorm room wall with someone's shit. The poopstika, or turdgate, is what ostensibly set off the protests, only there's no proof just a bunch of flyers  handed out to black students saying it happened. The cops didn't see anything and the picture being passed around on social media turned out to be from a Reddit thread a year old. So a giant hoax (color me surprised).

 

My take? A faculty instigated protest by SJWs to get rid of a  Chancellor they despised. Once they got the black football players to threaten a strike it was all over, G-d forbid we don't get football on a Saturday. The rest is just the usual, and by now quite routine, lunacy one would expect on an American college campus in the 21st century. These are deeply intolerant people who have no respect for the rights of others. What's worrying is that a tax payer funded University has now been completely taken over by them, even to the extent of co-opting the cops.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/university-of-missouri-police-ask-students-to-report-hurtful-speech/

The Missouri University Police Department (MUPD) sent an email to students Tuesday morning urging them to call them and report any hurtful speech they encounter on the campus.

In an email that was flagged by several Missouri-based journalists, the MUPD asked “individuals who witness incidents of hateful and/or hurtful speech or actions” to call the department’s general phone line “to continue to ensure that the University of Missouri campus remains safe.” They suggest that students provide a detailed description of the offender, their location or license plate number, and even to take a picture if possible.

In the email, MUPD readily admits that hurtful or hateful speech is not against the law. But, they write, “if the individuals identified are students, MU’s Office of Student Conduct can take disciplinary action.”

In a statement to Mediaite, the MUPD confirmed that the email was real. When asked about the potential First Amendment implications, a spokesman responded simply, “We are simply asking them to report what they feel is hurtful and/or hateful speech.”

He added that the police did not consider the hateful speech “a criminal matter.” However, “We also work for the University and uphold the Universities Rules and Regulations.”

Picks jaw of floor....

 

[zelticgar]

I read on Huffpost this morning that the crazy lady asking for muscle resigned her position in the school of journalism. It sounds like the position only involved her sitting on some kind of committee and her real job is in the communications department (whats the diff between communications and journalism anyway?). It sounds like she also called at least one of the student reporters to apologize so credit to her for doing that.

I was looking at this tape last night again because it is kind of interesting. The students are basically doing what they do. I get the idea that as a young person you want to stand up for injustice (real or perceived) and you need an outlet to let that happen. The university setting works really well because it allows for this type of outlet and generally keeps things contained in a relatively safe environment. In a sense I think it lets people get it out of their system and learn what works and what does not. What I find really more interesting is the faculty's involvement. I can see being supportive and helping out if asked but at least two of these faculty members inserted themselves in the middle of the protest. It seemed like they were looking at this as an opportunity to add more cred or cool factor on campus.  I wonder if there is some sort of incentive for them to behave this way so they can gain higher standing within the community? Like maybe this is an easy way for them to increase their profile which allows for more opportunities in the future? I dont know much about college culture so i would be curious to see what people think about it.

 

 

 

 

 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Legislation by faculty.  We'll take your public space and make it ours!!!

muhahahahHahahHa!

[Hayyoth]

I read on Huffpost this morning that the crazy lady asking for muscle resigned her position in the school of journalism. It sounds like the position only involved her sitting on some kind of committee and her real job is in the communications department (whats the diff between communications and journalism anyway?). It sounds like she also called at least on of the reporters to apologize so credit to her for doing that.

I was looking at this tape last night again because it is kind of interesting. The students are basically doing what they do. I get the idea that as a young person you want to stand up for injustice (real or perceived) and you need an outlet to let that happen. The university setting works really well because it allows for this type of outlet and generally keeps things contained in a relatively safe environment. In a sense I think it lets people get it out of their system and learn what works and what does not. What I find really more interesting is the faculty's involvement. I can see being supportive and helping out if asked but at least two of these faculty members inserted themselves in the middle of the protest. It seemed like they were looking at this as an opportunity to add more cred or cool factor on campus.  I wonder if there is some sort of incentive for them to behave this way so they can gain higher standing within the community? Like maybe this is an easy way for them to increase their profile which allows for more opportunities in the future? I dont know much about college culture so i would be curious to see what people think about it.

You can post pictures? Great!

 

I'd say the protests were likely instigated by the faculty members

 

 

Anyhoo the particular professor of cra cra who we're discussing is indeed in the communications department NOT journalism, which is a relief, because if this is how someone teaching future reporters in the top journalism school in the country behaves there's literally no hope.

Not to doxx her or anything but here's what the hard working taxpayers of Missouri pay her to teach

Current research projects involve 50 Shades of Grey readers, the impact of social media in fans’ relationship with Lady Gaga, masculinity and male fans, messages about class and food in reality television programming

 

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

I don't think it's terribly difficult to come up with a situation in which it's perfectly justified to exclude reporters or the press from a space that would otherwise be considered public. For example, suppose you are a group engaged in morally justifiable law or rule breaking (I am deliberately avoiding the phrase "civil disobedience" because I think it comes with a lot of irrelevant baggage) on a public space, and you are currently in the process of planning additional actions that involve morally justifiable law or rule breaking, I think it's perfectly acceptable to prohibit the press or media from attending when their presence would be likely to result in the public dissemination of your plans that could thwart the action involving justifiable law or rule breaking.

Now, I'm not saying that's what's happening here. I don't think it is, and the stated reasons for the exclusion and the videos don't indicate that this is what's happening. But I don't think it's difficult to imagine a situation where it would be justified.

That being said, I am far less concerned about the actions of the protesters here than what I have heard about the "racially charged" atmosphere at the University of Missouri. And by "racially charged" - I mean to say that the allegations are that black students are openly harassed and insulted, intimidated and occasionally physically assaulted without meaningful repercussion. That's a much bigger problem that some protesters refusing to let a reporter walk around their tent encampment, and even though I think that the manner in which the protests are being handled is imperfect and worthy of critique, my sympathies are still with them, and I'm glad they're taking action here. 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Nestor,

Yes, the racial problems at The University of Missouri are a problem.  If they weren't I doubt the President and the Chancellor would have resigned.  That does not give these protestors, at their whim, the power or authority to declare a public space private and beyond media scrutiny.  I reiterate that if they do not want public and media scrutiny of their camp they are free to remove it from the Quad of the University.

As for your hypothetical, I disagree, if they want to meet in private, they can meet in private.  This is not to say there would never be circumstances where a public space is considered private but declaring a public space private at the whim of a public protest seems well beyond the pale in my opinion.

[Commodore]

The heckler's veto is the almost exclusive province of the left.

Using physicality, volume, and sheer numbers to disrupt the free will of others (shouting down speakers, taking over microphones, blocking public spaces and thoroughfares) They call this "nonviolent", but it really isn't.

The safe space phenomenon is the inversion of this principle. I.e. characterizing nonviolent acts of free will (typically speech) as unsafe, as a means of suppressing those acts. They act the victim, but are empowered to silence you (or direct some authority to silence you) because you are making them feel unsafe. 

Outside of a college environment, this sort of amateur psychological warfare is amusing, and most of us would tell these special fascist snowflakes to pound sand. But inside, the inmates run the asylum, the administrators are terrified. 

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

Nestor,

As for your hypothetical, I disagree, if they want to meet in private, they can meet in private.  This is not to say there would never be circumstances where a public space is considered private but declaring a public space private at the whim of a public protest seems well beyond the pale in my opinion.

What's the basis of your disagreement? I don't understand what your actual argument is. 

I suspect we are both in agreement that it is sometimes morally permissible - in fact, sometimes even morally required - to break laws or rules under certain circumstances. I fail to see why the concept of unfettered access by journalists to public spaces isn't a law or rule that must sometimes bend or give way to other moral considerations. 

Simply asserting that they could have met in a private space is beside the point. Maybe it's true. Maybe it's not. But the situation being posited is that it's irrelevant. 

[Ormond]

(whats the diff between communications and journalism anyway?).

 

I know this is tangential to the discussion, but since you asked:

https://www.natcom.org/discipline/

Speech classes are now normally part of Communications departments at most colleges and universities in the USA.