UK Politics - a new thread for the new board

[Maltaran]

The Defence Secretary claims Corbyn is a bigger threat to the Falklands than Argentina.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35593095

[Hereward]

Well, that would appear to be true if we are talking about the islands remaining a sovereign British territory . Argentina is not equipped to seize the Falklands, but Corbyn has discussed holding talks with Argentina, and what else is there to talk about but sovereignty, and has said the islanders should not be allowed to stand in the way of that.

[mormont]

A number of assumptions there, which even if true don't really lead to the conclusion.

Even assuming that Corbyn does in fact mean that he wants to hold talks about a transfer of sovereignty (what else is there to talk about? Lots, I'd think) and even assuming that Corbyn is ever actually in a position to do so, and assuming that he then does in fact hold such talks and that they are successful, he then has to face down opposition within his party, parliament and the country at large to actually deliver.

Hunt's statement is daft. It's hyperbole and spin, and he knows it.

[SeanF]

On ‎17‎/‎02‎/‎2016 at 2:10 PM, Hereward said:

Well, that would appear to be true if we are talking about the islands remaining a sovereign British territory . Argentina is not equipped to seize the Falklands, but Corbyn has discussed holding talks with Argentina, and what else is there to talk about but sovereignty, and has said the islanders should not be allowed to stand in the way of that.

 

Fortunately, he's not going to be in a position to do anything about it.

The Tories could choose Rolf Harris   the corpse of Jimmy Saville as their leader, and Corbyn would lose.

[Pebble thats Stubby]

Perhaps the thing Corbyn is suggesting talking about is   off shore oil rights.

 

Ya know the very thing that is talked about regularly when it comes to Argentina and the Falklands.  And one of the main reasons why Argentina makes claims on the Falklands.

[mormont]

And one of the main reasons why we dismiss such claims out of hand.

[Hereward]

Absent an economic collapse, the break-up of the UK or the being caught with his dick in a farm animal (wait, scrub that one), I'll agree that Corbyn is never going to be PM, but there is at least a chance of those things happening and Corbyn will then talk to the Argentinians, and the thing they want to talk about is sovereignty. We know Corbyn is a committed anti-imperialist, except where the imperialists in question are the Russians (or the Argentinians), so there is a small chance of the Falklanders' Britishness being threatened by him. There is zero chance of Argentina being able to seize the islands, so he is a greater threat. Whether the claim is hyperbole and spin, which it is, is neither here nor there in assessing it as a factual statement. 

[mormont]

Well, if you want to look at it that way... it still doesn't work. Because after all, even assuming it wasn't politically impossible for Corbyn ever to be in a position to negotiate the islands away, Argentina would also have to want those negotiations, so they'd be equally a part of this (entirely hypothetical) threat. Unless, for some reason, Corbyn wanted to give the islands away more than the Argentinians wanted to get them, in Hunt's scenario Corbyn is at worst an equal threat.

[Hereward]

I neither understand what Hunt has got to do with this nor why Argentina wouldn't want to have negotiations, so I will surrender to mutual incomprehension and move on. 

[mormont]

Oops. Hunt on the brain just now. Though, Hunt as Defence Secretary, there's a thought that could keep one awake at nights...

[HexMachina]

On a much lighter note, Lummel's slash-fic needs to start targeting Corbyn. Seems there may be a market for that sort of thing;

"Though you look like a tramp/You're a hit with the ladies/And I'd love to have/Your little Corbabies."

So says the Evening Standard at least.  

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

I've seen a lot of people on facebook kicking up a fuss and sharing a petition to stop the government from making refusing to repay student loans a criminal offence.

I'm a bit confused. Those sharing the petition are implying that anyone who doesn't pay back their loan within a certain time frame will be prosecuted, but as far as I can tell that's not the case and if it were I think it would be in the news. Does anyone else know what's going on?

[HexMachina]

Not heard anything about that SENP. But there are live updates on the EU deal talks on the BBC website right now if anyone is interested, looking like the UK got a lot of the concessions they wanted

[Lummel]

11 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Not heard anything about that SENP. But there are live updates on the EU deal talks on the BBC website right now if anyone is interested, looking like the UK got a lot of the concessions they wanted

As far as I am aware the UK is not sentient, and so is unlikely to want anything, except perhaps a bit of a sit down, a quick fag, and maybe a glance at the freebie newspaper someone's left lying around.

 

Was it awkward at all though when George Galloway was giving Nigel Farage's testicle a tender squeeze and Michael Gove walked in asking if there was room for a third in the bed?

[Werthead]

There we go. Referendum on the UK's membership of the European Union to be held on Thursday 23 June. I will be voting to stay in.

Thankfully Michael Gove has come out against, which will make thousands of people vote to stay in just because they don't want to be on the same side as the moronic cockwomble. If IDS says he'll be voting against it as well, the Better In campaign might as well pack up now. Job done.

If we do vote to go, I will have to consider leaving the country for somewhere else. But if we do go, at least Cameron would have to resign in utter, abject, humiliated defeat, which would be briefly entertaining (before our agricultural sector collapsed and Scotland departed the UK, at least).

Apparently the key deciding factor for many Tory voters will be the position of Boris Johnson. He may carry a large number of fence-sitters with him. He'll apparently vote for Cameron's position if London's interests are protected and against it if they're not, but we already know that one key demand of Johnson's has not been met.

[Maltaran]

Currently we have five Cabinet ministers on the Leave side, Gove being the main one

 

Quote

Chris Grayling, Culture Secretary John Whittingdale, Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith, Northern Ireland Secretary Theresa Villiers

 

[Spockydog]

Undemocratic bullshit like TTIP means I'll definitely be voting out.

Quote

The aim of the deal is to lower trade tariffs and harmonise regulations covering thousands of goods and services, including financial services. Brussels, which claims it has consulted widely during the talks, estimates that tens of billions of euros of extra trade could flow across the Atlantic after a deal. But TTIP has come under fire for threatening public services and giving powers to corporations outside individual nations’ domestic court systems.

A plan to include a separate tribunal system that would allow private companies to settle disputes has caused alarm after a series of incidents in other trade agreements that resulted in multinational companies suing governments. In the most high-profile case, tobacco company Philip Morris took the Australian government to an investor-state dispute settlement (ISDS) tribunal when the Canberra parliament agreed to enforce plain cigarette packaging.

Earlier this week, anti-TTIP campaigners said that ISDS would also allow corporations to challenge tax changes that hit their profits. A report published by Global Justice Now and the Transnational Institute warns that a deal “would massively increase the ability of corporations to sue member states of the EU over measures such as windfall taxes on exceptional profits, or use of taxation as a policy instrument”.

Nick Dearden, the director of Global Justice Now, said: “Despite the enormous public outcry over companies like Google and Amazon paying ridiculously small amounts of tax in the UK, the government is trying to sign us up to a trade deal that could effectively prevent us from bringing about laws that could address tax injustice.

“The ability to enact effective and fair tax systems to finance vital public services is one of the defining features of sovereignty. The fact that multinational companies would be able to challenge and undermine that under TTIP is testament to the terrifying extent of the corporate grab embedded in this toxic trade deal.”

Due to all the secrecy, the British public is largely unaware that their government plans to hand the keys to the kingdom to a bunch of American corporations. The Brexit campaign has to change this.

[mormont]

Spocky: the Brexit campaign will not affect TTIP in the slightest. I guarantee you, 100%, that a UK out of the EU would be signing up to TTIP. Most, if not all, of the major figures in the exit campaign are enthusiastic cheerleaders for TTIP.

[Spockydog]

Perhaps, but being out of the EU might allow us to properly debate the bleeding thing.

 

[mormont]

Being out of the EU might get us all free hot chocolate and cookies, too. But absent any reason to think that it will, that would be a terrible reason to give your vote to one side or the other.

As I say, those leading the exit campaign are largely boosters of TTIP and as such, they're not in any way more likely to give UK voters a proper debate on it than people in Brussels are. They have no interest in that.