Castel Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Hey, all I'm saying is I could see the ending coming a mile away the second Clara said "give me the mark". The fact that her friend was never in any real danger to begin with made her death all the more meaningless. Well, shit happens sometimes. We've had people go out absorbing the Time Vortex, saving the universe, multiverse and omniverse. Sometimes people lose in the small stakes games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All-for-Joffrey Posted November 23, 2015 Author Share Posted November 23, 2015 The writers made Clara look like a complete fool too, by having her screw with something she knew next to nothing about.I thought that was the point? She was getting too reckless by trying to be like the Doctor. The fact that her friend was never in any real danger to begin with made her death all the more meaningless.And again, there's no way anyone could have known that Rigsy wasn't actually in danger at the time so it wasn't meaningless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Well, shit happens sometimes. We've had people go out absorbing the Time Vortex, saving the universe, multiverse and omniverse. Sometimes people lose in the small stakes games. It wouldn't have to be that over the top for me to be satisfied, I would have been content with something piratical and with real stakes. Instead she dies as a result of a completely new death mechanic, with rules that seem to change on the spot, as the plot needs them to. Call me crazy, but I usually don't care about how a character dies, so long as the story around their death is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 So people think Clara's really dead then and Moffatt's not going to handwave-undo it between next week's episode and Christmas?If he doesn't do that and it sticks, I'll be seriously impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 There wouldn't be much point in undoing it only to have to shunt her off again in one of the three eps remaining. So yeah, I think she's dead.It would be nice to see her again as a different Clara sometime in future, though. The first three times we saw her were by far her best performances (largely because of the writing, which fell apart the moment she actually joined the Tardis) so I'd be interested to see if she could repeat the trick with another future/past incarnation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felice Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 So people think Clara's really dead then and Moffatt's not going to handwave-undo it between next week's episode and Christmas?I'm leaning towards no. The episode made a big deal about facing the raven, as opposed to running away from it which everyone else does, particularly the way Kabel says "don't run, stay with her". It's not at all clear whether she's actually dead or just unconscious at the end; we don't see the Doctor actually examine the body or anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alguien Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 So people think Clara's really dead then and Moffatt's not going to handwave-undo it between next week's episode and Christmas?If he doesn't do that and it sticks, I'll be seriously impressed.My guess is that she won't return until the season finale and her fate will have something to do with the hybrid storyline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis Eats No Peaches Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Just watched episode 9 and 10 back to back. 9 made absolutely no sense, which is a shame because it started off interesting. 10 I liked more, but I thought Clara was killed off pretty cheaply and I saw it coming a mile off (OK. I got spoiled by Facebook, but they'd been beating us over the head with it all series). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protar Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 So people think Clara's really dead then and Moffatt's not going to handwave-undo it between next week's episode and Christmas?If he doesn't do that and it sticks, I'll be seriously impressed.I think she'll appear in some sense in the finale, probably with the Doctor trying to save her by going back in his/her timeline. But there's little point in bringing her back just to make her send-off a little happier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dog-days Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 I loved that episode! Moffat, I forgive you all your quirks and tropes and peculiarities. You can still write the stand-out episode of the season! And Peter Capaldi...Getting my tuppence in before the logicians start dismembering everything. ETA: Also, it was nice seeing so much of Cardiff castle, especially the glimpses of the opulent banqueting chamber. The choice also makes sense in the context of the episode since the Doctor has no doubt spend a great deal of time during his last few incarnations being chased down the long corridors within the castle walls by various monsters. Not surprised it's a place of horror for him!ETETA: According to the radio times, the episode was partly filmed at Cardiff castle and partly at Caerphilly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 I haven't seen he episode yet but I have seen the trailer. So Luwin is SomethingLikeRassilon 2.0 and when the Doctor said "I've barely started." I had the feeling that he meant that PCapaldi had barely started his Doctor awesomeness. Series 8 had some holes, series 9 didn't had many holes and series 10+ will be the quintessence of his Doctor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 WHAT.WHAT.WHAT.That was unexpectedly great. Do the most experimental thing they've done in ten years, but then avert any possible pretension/wankery problems by folding the story into the one thing fans have been waiting for for ten years. And yes, I think it is time to do it. Whether it's a permanent return or just a one-off adventure and they get sealed away again, but it's important that the Doctor gets to go home after what happened to Clara (and I think it's more likely now she is dead permanently, but they may still timey wimey it).Is the Doctor now canonically 2,000,002,000 years old? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 The episode was... great. A tour de force by Capaldi, great direction, great writing, great production. I can't complain about a single thing in the actual episodeBUTAre they going to resurrect the 'The Doctor is half-human' bit from the movie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seli Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 ....Is the Doctor now canonically 2,000,002,000 years old?No, only the age he was before and the time spent in one single loop added to that.even considering that was in his confession dial, which damn it they were broadcasting all the time and I missed completely until just now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 That was brilliant. The best episode since they brought it back from the dead.Love Capaldi's channeling of Tom Baker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castel Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 This was an almost shockingly bad season of Who. Yet it produced this. Amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Trailer for next week's episode.Heck.A Dalek, a weeping angel and a return to the Doctor's barn. And could that be the woman from Ten's final story? And an original "naked" TARDIS, and the original TARDIS interior! And yes, another appearance by Clara, but it looks it might be another dream one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Great episode, like I've been waiting for for years ...BUT did they just make the doctor some sort of chosen one/child of prophecy. Tsk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 BUT did they just make the doctor some sort of chosen one/child of prophecy. Tsk. No. And that was one of two frustrating things about the episode:Other than that, it was brilliant.That Ishildr called herself 'Me' just so that when the Doctor named her as the hybrid some people would go WAIT IT'S THE DOCTOR?!?The other thing was that if I heard it correctly the Doctor claimed the long-range teleport could only have taken him a maximum of one light year from where he was... which is no distance at all in space terms. Although I guess if he went inside the confession dial rather than that being some sort of metaphor-teleporter combo that would be okay, though then why would there be stars at all, let alone ones he can triangulate position from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis Eats No Peaches Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 Now that was a great episode. About damn time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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