Something about Sansa and Arianne

[purple-eyes]

When arianne arrived at ghost hill, they were doing a horse racing to see who will reach the castle first. 

Valena, a red-haired beautiful lady was leading with her red horse, then arianne almost caught up with her, 

but finally Elia sand rode a black horse and passed both of them and won. 

I mean ghost hill has a sigil of green dragon on golden background. 

This sounds like aegon VI. sansa is also a red-haired beautiful lady. 

We know aegon and arianne are meeting soon. 

Is this a foreshadow that both sansa and arianne would be involved with Aegon, then somehow Aegon was caught by Elia sand, a black horse? (And the reckless behavior of Elia sand caused his downfall) 

GRRM painted Elia sand just like lyanna reborn. She is great at riding, half-horse,14 years old, lady lance, willful, reckless, good with guys.

will likely to held as a hostage at some point. 

i am pretty sure she will do something unusual and make aegon into trouble. 

 

 

 

[Isobel Harper]

When arianne arrived at ghost hill, they were doing a horse racing to see who will reach the castle first. 

Valena, a red-haired beautiful lady was leading with her red horse, then arianne almost caught up with her, 

but finally Elia sand rode a black horse and passed both of them and won. 

I mean ghost hill has a sigil of green dragon on golden background. 

This sounds like aegon VI. sansa is also a red-haired beautiful lady. 

We know aegon and arianne are meeting soon. 

Is this a foreshadow that both sansa and arianne would be involved with Aegon, then somehow Aegon was caught by Elia sand, a black horse? (And the reckless behavior of Elia sand caused his downfall) 

GRRM painted Elia sand just like lyanna reborn. She is great at riding, half-horse,14 years old, lady lance, willful, reckless, good with guys.

will likely to held as a hostage at some point. 

i am pretty sure she will do something unusual and make aegon into trouble. 

 

 

 

I never noticed this before.  Interesting.  You wouldn't be the first to theorize that Elia Sand and Arianne Martell would be in competition with each other for Aegon's affection.  Not sure if Valena is supposed to symbolize Sansa, but they do also arrive at Ghost Hill on the Peregrine.  A peregrine is a type of falcon, and a falcon is featured on Arryn's banner.  I dunno.  I guess there could be a connection there too.   

Although an "Elia" doing a spurning this time is a bit of a twist, Elia Sand being a little "Lyanna 2.0" seems to much of a regurgitation.  But we really don't know Aegon's type (yet), so who can say?

If Aegon does become a love interest for Sansa, I would hope that he isn't unfaithful to her... he could play the role of further disillusioning Sansa, but hasn't she encountered enough men to disillusion her?

 

[purple-eyes]

I never noticed this before.  Interesting.  You wouldn't be the first to theorize that Elia Sand and Arianne Martell would be in competition with each other for Aegon's affection.  Not sure if Valena is supposed to symbolize Sansa, but they do also arrive at Ghost Hill on the Peregrine.  A peregrine is a type of falcon, and a falcon is featured on Arryn's banner.  I dunno.  I guess there could be a connection there too.   

Although an "Elia" doing a spurning this time is a bit of a twist, Elia Sand being a little "Lyanna 2.0" seems to much of a regurgitation.  But we really don't know Aegon's type (yet), so who can say?

If Aegon does become a love interest for Sansa, I would hope that he isn't unfaithful to her... he could play the role of further disillusioning Sansa, but hasn't she encountered enough men to disillusion her?

 

peregrine is the ship they took from ghost hill to storm lands. 

I am not sure aegon's type, but it is possibly that he is into a wild type like his supposed father rhaegar. Elia's name also would caught his eye since it is his supposed mother's name. They are cousins too. 

I do not think he will be faithful to his wife, no matter arianne or sansa. 

His choice on marriage/love and his lover's reckless behavior would likely be his downfall in the end. 

 

[Isobel Harper]

peregrine is the ship they took from ghost hill to storm lands. 

I am not sure aegon's type, but it is possibly that he is into a wild type like his supposed father rhaegar. Elia's name also would caught his eye since it is his supposed mother's name. They are cousins too. 

I do not think he will be faithful to his wife, no matter arianne or sansa. 

His choice on marriage/love and his lover's reckless behavior would likely be his downfall in the end. 

 

I can totally see Elia's name catching his eye.  I'm not sure how her being his paramour would result in his downfall though.  One thing I've noticed about GRRM's love interests is that they tend to be complements.  Ygritte's fire to Jon's somberness.  Rhaegar's melancholic introversion and Lyanna's willfulness.  Elia seems too wild for hot-headed Aegon...  however, I noticed a theme in Arianne II...

Snipets from Arianne II:  "I want you meek, mild, and obedient. You need to hold your tongue. I’ll hear no more talk of Lady Lance or jousting."  ...  "Meek and mild and obedient, you said. Must I add ‘chaste’ to that as well? You swore upon your father’s bones.” “I remember,” said Elia, sounding chastened. “Meek and mild and obedient. I won’t kiss him again.”

The complement to Aegon's hot temper and willfulness is something like meek, mild, and obedient, a role that Elia will undertaking, or at least trying to.  I can see it now.  Arianne's inner-monologue, thinking that she finally put some sense in the girl's head, when in truth Elia's change in behavior is only due to her trying to impress a boy.
 

As for faithfulness, we have no idea about Aegon's virtue in that regard.  I wouldn't put choosing someone as a paramour past him (or anyone else if they're not married), but being unfaithful to a wife is another thing.

[Isobel Harper]

Thread recommendation:
http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/104129-twow-spoilers-elia-sand-will-be-the-one-to-commit-dorne-to-aegon’s-cause-long-read/

[purple-eyes]

I can totally see Elia's name catching his eye.  I'm not sure how her being his paramour would result in his downfall though.  One thing I've noticed about GRRM's love interests is that they tend to be complements.  Ygritte's fire to Jon's somberness.  Rhaegar's melancholic introversion and Lyanna's willfulness.  Elia seems too wild for hot-headed Aegon...  however, I noticed a theme in Arianne II...

Hidden Content

As for faithfulness, we have no idea about Aegon's virtue in that regard.  I wouldn't put choosing someone as a paramour past him (or anyone else if they're not married), but being unfaithful to a wife is another thing.

the problem is that he may want to marry elia sand (he can legitimize her if necessary, then she can be elia martell) thus ruin his alliance with some body else. Like sansa. 

Like a robb 2.0. 

[Isobel Harper]

 

the problem is that he may want to marry elia sand (he can legitimize her if necessary, then she can be elia martell) thus ruin his alliance with some body else. Like sansa. 

Like a robb 2.0. 

Maybe, but that seems too reckless even for Aegon. 

[AerionBrightflameII]

Little (F)Aegon will never sit the Iron Throne, i think all the power and ruling will go to his head (not intentionally) and he will stop listening to JonCon and start listening to all the flatterers. I think Dorne will see an opportunity and side with him by marrying Arianne off and become involved with the Golden Company against the divided Lannister/Tyrell alliance whilst they are distracted.

 

It has considered my mind about Sansa >Faegon<Arianne  but i never noticed this with Elia...Good Job 

[aryagonnakill#2]

I've considered Elia fathering a bastard off Aegon thus continuing the Blackfyre line, but I never considered him actually marrying her.  I have to admit the scene does seem to read the way you suggest, but doesn't need to apply to marriage, only desire.  Or maybe we're all just reading way to much into it.

[Whitering]

It would be an interesting parallel to Harry the Heir if he didn't give a shit about Elia's bastard status, but I can't really see the upside.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

With House Toland's sigil (not Ghost Hill's sigil) being a green dragon on a golden field, wouldn't Valena be representing the dragon in question?

[Isobel Harper]

RE: Valena and red theme alternatives.

Valena is on a red horse, Elia Sand on a black.  This is reminiscent of "red or black..."

In another theory (I believe I posted a link to it somewhere on here), I proposed that Elia Sand would sneak a letter to Doran forging Arianne's signature, asking to go to WAR for Aegon.  However, WAR means WAIT, so Aegon basically loses his chance for Dornish support because of Elia, and is likely seen even more so as a fraud because of it.  The black dragon horse wins, so to speak.

Or the red and black could be to emphasize that Elia is a bastard perhaps?

[A Ghost of Someone]

I think Aegon will be seduced by Arianne and he may even impregnate her but he will not marry her. He will find potentially a more beneficial marriage in Sansa Stark. Aegon should have Dorne in his corner without wasting himself into marrying Arianne. That would isolate him politically. He needs to wed into an alliance to gain more troops and resources. Littlefinger is looking to marry Sansa off for political marriage and he has food, lots of money and the Vale troops. Sansa could rally the Riverlands and if anything happens to Rickon, the North as well. Everyone hates the Lannisters so it would work. If you are Littlefinger, marry Sansa to Harry the Heir to the Vale or King Aegon VI? Easy choice.

[Scorpion92]

Why can't Aegon have two wives, Arianne and Sansa? To mirror Rhaegar,Elia and Lyanna?

I definitely think Aegon will marry his "cousin" Arianne to solidify his hold on Dorne, Doran and Arianne are both sceptical he is who he claims to be. If he proves himself by rallying Stormlands to his side and sway Lord Mathis Rowan and Lord Randyll Tarly to his side, two important Tyrell bannermen.

Mathis is probably already on Aegon's side since he was besieging Storm's End and the castle now belongs to Aegon, while Randyll and a big host of Tyrell army will be sent to deal with Golden Company. Mace Tyrell cannot leave King's Landing because of Margaery's situation, so he will send his best military commander to deal with it.

I see Tarly losing in some sneaky way, while stormlanders and Golden Company meet them upfront and Dornish troops trapping them from behind. Eventually, Randyll will be swayed to join Aegon's side because he will be impressed by a boy who leads his own battles.

So anyways, I think Sansa and Aegon are bound to meet. And where was the last time a female Stark and male Targaryen met? That's right, Harrenhal, a castle which belongs to Sansa's "father" Petyr Baelish.

I foresee Aegon to have a successful company initially. The Reach, Stormlands and Dorne will back his claim on Iron Throne, and the smallfolk of the Riverlands and the Faith will also support him,especially after he saves Oldtown from ironborn and with incompetent Cersei in the capital. Not to mention that with Jaime's disappearence Tyrek Lannister might be installed as a new Lord of Casterly Rock and Paramount of Westerlands to serve as a puppet lord for Varys, and therefore for Aegon.

Meanwhile, Lord Petyr Baelish is titular Lord Paramount of Riverlands and the wealthiest guy in the realm by that time. He is also Lord Protector of the Vale under Sweetrobin's name (Harry the Heir is gonna die, he is biggest red herring), which means he commands the intouched armies of the Vale.

He also possesses Mya Stone in his corner, which will throw King Tommen's legitimacy on the Throne out of the window as King Robert's son and give Aegon the unquestioned clear path to the throne. And of course, Sansa, the sole surviving child of Lord Eddard Stark of Winterfell (at least what everyone will believe at that time), the  bride that will give her husband a legitimate claim on Winterfell and the North.

So it just makes a lot of sense for Aegon and Littlefinger's camps to intersect and at least start some kind of dialogue and promises. Since Jon Connington is dying of greyscale, I could see Littlfinger asking Aegon to become the Hand of the King.

All of this will transpire in Harrenhal, where Littlefinger will host a grand tournament for whole South to attend. Since he is one of the wealthiest guys in the realm, he can afford it. Littlefinger will appear to be the only guy who can offer peace to the bleeding realm and bring all the high lords of the South to a table, including Aegon and his camp. But his real intentions of course will stay hidden,that's how he rolls.

The whole Vale tournament is just a grand rehearsal for this Harrenhal tournament for Alayne. Having mastered her skills, she will be more dangerous the second time, THIS is where Baelish's plan of uncovering her heritage will come to play. Not before Vale knights, but before more grand audience in Harrenhal. The whole realm including knights,lords and smallfolk will witness it.

And of course Arianne is not going to be happy with Aegon's second betrothal, I don't envision her as a type who shares, especially a thing like queenship, with another. I expect a battle of wits between Arianne and now experienced Sansa.

And unfortunately, all of these plans of uniting Reach/Stormlands/Dorne/Westerlands with Riverlands/Vale/North will come crumbling, as Dany and Tyrion will start the Second Dance of the Dragons, and Sansa being kidnapped and brought before Cersei in King's Landing.

[AerionBrightflameII]

Why can't Aegon have two wives, Arianne and Sansa? To mirror Rhaegar,Elia and Lyanna?

I definitely think Aegon will marry his "cousin" Arianne to solidify his hold on Dorne, Doran and Arianne are both sceptical he is who he claims to be. If he proves himself by rallying Stormlands to his side and sway Lord Mathis Rowan and Lord Randyll Tarly to his side, two important Tyrell bannermen.

Mathis is probably already on Aegon's side since he was besieging Storm's End and the castle now belongs to Aegon, while Randyll and a big host of Tyrell army will be sent to deal with Golden Company. Mace Tyrell cannot leave King's Landing because of Margaery's situation, so he will send his best military commander to deal with it.

I see Tarly losing in some sneaky way, while stormlanders and Golden Company meet them upfront and Dornish troops trapping them from behind. Eventually, Randyll will be swayed to join Aegon's side because he will be impressed by a boy who leads his own battles.

So anyways, I think Sansa and Aegon are bound to meet. And where was the last time a female Stark and male Targaryen met? That's right, Harrenhal, a castle which belongs to Sansa's "father" Petyr Baelish.

I foresee Aegon to have a successful company initially. The Reach, Stormlands and Dorne will back his claim on Iron Throne, and the smallfolk of the Riverlands and the Faith will also support him,especially after he saves Oldtown from ironborn and with incompetent Cersei in the capital. Not to mention that with Jaime's disappearence Tyrek Lannister might be installed as a new Lord of Casterly Rock and Paramount of Westerlands to serve as a puppet lord for Varys, and therefore for Aegon.

Meanwhile, Lord Petyr Baelish is titular Lord Paramount of Riverlands and the wealthiest guy in the realm by that time. He is also Lord Protector of the Vale under Sweetrobin's name (Harry the Heir is gonna die, he is biggest red herring), which means he commands the intouched armies of the Vale.

He also possesses Mya Stone in his corner, which will throw King Tommen's legitimacy on the Throne out of the window as King Robert's son and give Aegon the unquestioned clear path to the throne. And of course, Sansa, the sole surviving child of Lord Eddard Stark of Winterfell (at least what everyone will believe at that time), the  bride that will give her husband a legitimate claim on Winterfell and the North.

So it just makes a lot of sense for Aegon and Littlefinger's camps to intersect and at least start some kind of dialogue and promises. Since Jon Connington is dying of greyscale, I could see Littlfinger asking Aegon to become the Hand of the King.

All of this will transpire in Harrenhal, where Littlefinger will host a grand tournament for whole South to attend. Since he is one of the wealthiest guys in the realm, he can afford it. Littlefinger will appear to be the only guy who can offer peace to the bleeding realm and bring all the high lords of the South to a table, including Aegon and his camp. But his real intentions of course will stay hidden,that's how he rolls.

The whole Vale tournament is just a grand rehearsal for this Harrenhal tournament for Alayne. Having mastered her skills, she will be more dangerous the second time, THIS is where Baelish's plan of uncovering her heritage will come to play. Not before Vale knights, but before more grand audience in Harrenhal. The whole realm including knights,lords and smallfolk will witness it.

And of course Arianne is not going to be happy with Aegon's second betrothal, I don't envision her as a type who shares, especially a thing like queenship, with another. I expect a battle of wits between Arianne and now experienced Sansa.

And unfortunately, all of these plans of uniting Reach/Stormlands/Dorne/Westerlands with Riverlands/Vale/North will come crumbling, as Dany and Tyrion will start the Second Dance of the Dragons, and Sansa being kidnapped and brought before Cersei in King's Landing.

Snow in Kings Landing at the end of ADWD means a load of snow in the Riverlands which are in chaos, with famine and bandits everywhere. In The North Stannis is marshaling men and marching on Winterfell and the Wall has Wildlings and Crows at each others throat, The Stormlands are being invaded by the scattered Golden Company led by JonCon and a Blackfyre. I don't think there will be a great tourney.

Im not sure if LF even knows of (F)Aegon existence, Tyrion managed to trick him he is impressive but not infamable.

To Littlefinger Bran and Rickon are dead and Sansa has the best claim to the North, he thinks to bind the North and the Vale together through Harry the Heir and Sansa and im sure he can think of swaying the Riverlands to join him in his little alliance. Highgarden will be busy fighting the Ironborn to do much about him, the Westerlands are weakened and Dorne is too busy focused on (F)Aegon in Stormlands and the Lannisters and Tyrells in Kings Landing.

 

 

[Endymion I Targaryen]

I don't believe Elia will play any huge role.Daenerys disappearance and Quentyn's death will force Aegon and Dorne to ally and a betrothal/wedding between Aegon and Arianne will seal this alliance.Sansa will be taken back to King's Landing for a trial,only to find that Aegon has taken it.I believe he will fall in love with Sansa and break his wedding with Arianne.

 

[aryagonnakill#2]

Snow in Kings Landing at the end of ADWD means a load of snow in the Riverlands which are in chaos, with famine and bandits everywhere. In The North Stannis is marshaling men and marching on Winterfell and the Wall has Wildlings and Crows at each others throat, The Stormlands are being invaded by the scattered Golden Company led by JonCon and a Blackfyre. I don't think there will be a great tourney.

Im not sure if LF even knows of (F)Aegon existence, Tyrion managed to trick him he is impressive but not infamable.

To Littlefinger Bran and Rickon are dead and Sansa has the best claim to the North, he thinks to bind the North and the Vale together through Harry the Heir and Sansa and im sure he can think of swaying the Riverlands to join him in his little alliance. Highgarden will be busy fighting the Ironborn to do much about him, the Westerlands are weakened and Dorne is too busy focused on (F)Aegon in Stormlands and the Lannisters and Tyrells in Kings Landing.

 

 

Sansa said that SR Kettleblack had returned from Gulltown and that his horse's mouth was frothing.  That means he rode him as hard as he could.  Sansa wonders what news he has brought.  Because of the timeline difficulties we can't know whether its news of his own sons or news of Aegon.  He already knew about Danaerys so its probably not about her.  There is a pretty good chance he just heard about Aegon tho.

[Lord Wraith]

Thread recommendation:
http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/104129-twow-spoilers-elia-sand-will-be-the-one-to-commit-dorne-to-aegon’s-cause-long-read/

Makes more sense than Arianne to me.

[Isobel Harper]

Sansa said that SR Kettleblack had returned from Gulltown and that his horse's mouth was frothing.  That means he rode him as hard as he could.  Sansa wonders what news he has brought.  Because of the timeline difficulties we can't know whether its news of his own sons or news of Aegon.  He already knew about Danaerys so its probably not about her.  There is a pretty good chance he just heard about Aegon tho.

News of Aegon is too early.  KL doesn't find out about Aegon until the very end of ADwD, which exceeds AFfC in plot, and the scene you're referring to occurs in AFfC.  Most likely it was about Cersei being arrested, along with Kettleblack's sons. 

Speaking of which, I wonder if the Kettleblack boys' imprisonment will affect Daddy Kettleblack's loyalty to LF in any way?

[aryagonnakill#2]

News of Aegon is too early.  KL doesn't find out about Aegon until the very end of ADwD, which exceeds AFfC in plot, and the scene you're referring to occurs in AFfC.  Most likely it was about Cersei being arrested, along with Kettleblack's sons. 

Speaking of which, I wonder if the Kettleblack boys' imprisonment will affect Daddy Kettleblack's loyalty to LF in any way?

I was referring to the sample chapter.  The timeline fits there.  Since LF mentions that Cersei has screwed things up too quickly back in affc, I think its likely they learned about the Kettleblacks at that time, and that in the Sansa sample chapter LF hears of Aegons invasion.

But yes that's an interesting point that I've raised before.  His 1 son has been tortured and imprisoned and the other 2 are being held presumably in cells.  I don't think there is any chance of the 1 the High Septon tortured getting out of it alive, he is 1 of Cersei's accusers so I think he will have to fight UnGregor.