Something about Sansa and Arianne

[ErasmusF]

I think the horse race symbolizes dragons - red versus black, rather than anything about Sansa. 

I also don't see what benefits Aegon from marrying Sansa. Seems like a very poor choice, given the disorder in the North. And I don't see why Sansa would marry Aegon. Relative to marrying in the North, Vale, or Riverlands, he is not going to be able to consolidate her power. Seems like it would be a "sidequest" to rally the North for Aegon, which will be an uphill battle all on it's own, and a distraction for Sansa from actually consolidating her friends in the neighboring territories (being the closest living, free relation to the lords of the North, Vale, and Riverlands).  

Interesting comments above about a tourney at Harrenhall. I, too, believe that weather will preclude this kind of thing, but I wonder how much foreshadowing GRRM has done in AKOTSK. Could Littlefinger be setting himself up for a Butterwell type fall? Will he be the rich Lord without a sword who tries to play both sides of the dragon coin?

Littlefinger has more mettle than Butterwell, but the lesson of the story is that if you play too many games in the GOT, you lose them all. 

 

 

[ThePrinceThatKnewNothing]

On 11/15/2015 at 9:58 PM, Scorpion92 said:

Why can't Aegon have two wives, Arianne and Sansa? To mirror Rhaegar,Elia and Lyanna?

I definitely think Aegon will marry his "cousin" Arianne to solidify his hold on Dorne, Doran and Arianne are both sceptical he is who he claims to be. If he proves himself by rallying Stormlands to his side and sway Lord Mathis Rowan and Lord Randyll Tarly to his side, two important Tyrell bannermen.

Mathis is probably already on Aegon's side since he was besieging Storm's End and the castle now belongs to Aegon, while Randyll and a big host of Tyrell army will be sent to deal with Golden Company. Mace Tyrell cannot leave King's Landing because of Margaery's situation, so he will send his best military commander to deal with it.

I see Tarly losing in some sneaky way, while stormlanders and Golden Company meet them upfront and Dornish troops trapping them from behind. Eventually, Randyll will be swayed to join Aegon's side because he will be impressed by a boy who leads his own battles.

So anyways, I think Sansa and Aegon are bound to meet. And where was the last time a female Stark and male Targaryen met? That's right, Harrenhal, a castle which belongs to Sansa's "father" Petyr Baelish.

I foresee Aegon to have a successful company initially. The Reach, Stormlands and Dorne will back his claim on Iron Throne, and the smallfolk of the Riverlands and the Faith will also support him,especially after he saves Oldtown from ironborn and with incompetent Cersei in the capital. Not to mention that with Jaime's disappearence Tyrek Lannister might be installed as a new Lord of Casterly Rock and Paramount of Westerlands to serve as a puppet lord for Varys, and therefore for Aegon.

Meanwhile, Lord Petyr Baelish is titular Lord Paramount of Riverlands and the wealthiest guy in the realm by that time. He is also Lord Protector of the Vale under Sweetrobin's name (Harry the Heir is gonna die, he is biggest red herring), which means he commands the intouched armies of the Vale.

He also possesses Mya Stone in his corner, which will throw King Tommen's legitimacy on the Throne out of the window as King Robert's son and give Aegon the unquestioned clear path to the throne. And of course, Sansa, the sole surviving child of Lord Eddard Stark of Winterfell (at least what everyone will believe at that time), the  bride that will give her husband a legitimate claim on Winterfell and the North.

So it just makes a lot of sense for Aegon and Littlefinger's camps to intersect and at least start some kind of dialogue and promises. Since Jon Connington is dying of greyscale, I could see Littlfinger asking Aegon to become the Hand of the King.

All of this will transpire in Harrenhal, where Littlefinger will host a grand tournament for whole South to attend. Since he is one of the wealthiest guys in the realm, he can afford it. Littlefinger will appear to be the only guy who can offer peace to the bleeding realm and bring all the high lords of the South to a table, including Aegon and his camp. But his real intentions of course will stay hidden,that's how he rolls.

The whole Vale tournament is just a grand rehearsal for this Harrenhal tournament for Alayne. Having mastered her skills, she will be more dangerous the second time, THIS is where Baelish's plan of uncovering her heritage will come to play. Not before Vale knights, but before more grand audience in Harrenhal. The whole realm including knights,lords and smallfolk will witness it.

And of course Arianne is not going to be happy with Aegon's second betrothal, I don't envision her as a type who shares, especially a thing like queenship, with another. I expect a battle of wits between Arianne and now experienced Sansa.

And unfortunately, all of these plans of uniting Reach/Stormlands/Dorne/Westerlands with Riverlands/Vale/North will come crumbling, as Dany and Tyrion will start the Second Dance of the Dragons, and Sansa being kidnapped and brought before Cersei in King's Landing.

I actually like the bit about LF hosting a grand tourney and would be pretty awesome if it happens, if it does I can see Daenerys showing up with her dragons. It makes sense because doesn't she have a vision about fighting the Others on the trident?

[the conquering bastard 25]

On 11/13/2015 at 6:50 PM, A Ghost of Someone said:

I think Aegon will be seduced by Arianne and he may even impregnate her but he will not marry her. He will find potentially a more beneficial marriage in Sansa Stark. Aegon should have Dorne in his corner without wasting himself into marrying Arianne. That would isolate him politically. He needs to wed into an alliance to gain more troops and resources. Littlefinger is looking to marry Sansa off for political marriage and he has food, lots of money and the Vale troops. Sansa could rally the Riverlands and if anything happens to Rickon, the North as well. Everyone hates the Lannisters so it would work. If you are Littlefinger, marry Sansa to Harry the Heir to the Vale or King Aegon VI? Easy choice.

The Vale lords arent Sansa's to rally. Not to mention the Lord Declarant know who she is. Nor are the Riverlords going to rally for her either.

Jason Mallister, Blackfish, Edmure Tully and the Blackwood and Brackens know she was disinherited.

 

The Blackfish said he would continue his nephews war. That war was one of independece not reuniting with the rest of the 7 kingdoms.

 

Even if that werent the case Sansa is married to Tyrion Lannister.

[A Ghost of Someone]

2 hours ago, the conquering bastard 25 said:

The Vale lords arent Sansa's to rally. Not to mention the Lord Declarant know who she is. Nor are the Riverlords going to rally for her either.

Jason Mallister, Blackfish, Edmure Tully and the Blackwood and Brackens know she was disinherited.

 

The Blackfish said he would continue his nephews war. That war was one of independece not reuniting with the rest of the 7 kingdoms.

 

Even if that werent the case Sansa is married to Tyrion Lannister.

Littlefinger is  in control of the Vale, for now, tenuously but the best way to get them off his back is to let them do what they wanted too since the beginning, fight Lannisters.

Sansa was disinherited because she married the Imp, forced to is more like it but the marriage was not consummated. LF knows this and so does Sansa. A regime change in King's Landing can allow her to present her case (and coincidentally, her intact maidenhead) to the faith for annulment) Non - Consummation of marriage and her testimony that she was basically dragged there in tears is going to get it overturned.

[Farwynds Oceanseer]

On November 10, 2015 at 7:24 PM, purple-eyes said:

When arianne arrived at ghost hill, they were doing a horse racing to see who will reach the castle first. 

Valena, a red-haired beautiful lady was leading with her red horse, then arianne almost caught up with her, 

but finally Elia sand rode a black horse and passed both of them and won. 

I mean ghost hill has a sigil of green dragon on golden background. 

This sounds like aegon VI. sansa is also a red-haired beautiful lady. 

We know aegon and arianne are meeting soon. 

Is this a foreshadow that both sansa and arianne would be involved with Aegon, then somehow Aegon was caught by Elia sand, a black horse? (And the reckless behavior of Elia sand caused his downfall) 

GRRM painted Elia sand just like lyanna reborn. She is great at riding, half-horse,14 years old, lady lance, willful, reckless, good with guys.

will likely to held as a hostage at some point. 

i am pretty sure she will do something unusual and make aegon into trouble. 

 

 

 

The notion of Elia Sand "riding the black horse" ahead of Arianne and marrying Aegon sounds somewhat plausible to me. The civil war in ASOIF draws on the War of the Roses, and Edward IV almost ruined his victory over House Lancaster by marrying a commoner for love after his strongest supporter (the Earl of Warwick) had arranged a political marriage. The nobility never fully accepted the untitled (but landowning) family of his queen, Elizabeth Woodville. Warwick eventually rebelled because of the humiliation of having his marriage/alliance/treaty snubbed, and even ended up fighting for the exiled Lancaster Queen Margarett of Anjou, who got her mentally incompetent husband (Henry VI) back on the throne for a year before Edward re-deposed him.

I could see Aegon winning spectacular victories on the battle field and then alienating key supporters by marrying a Dornish bastard in spite of a carefully negotiated marriage/treaty. Substitute a brief second reign by Circe for that of Margarette of Anjou, and then substitute a Dany conquest for Faegon/Edward taking the throne back. (The War of the Roses parallels in ASOIF aren't one to one--Robb Stark mirrors Edward IV in waging a surprisingly good campaign after his father is put to death, only to destroy himself with an ill-advised marriage. Faegon himself is less Edward IV than a mashup of Lambert Simnel and Perkin Warbeck, two imposters who were put forward as Yorkist princes by different factions trying to depose Henry Tudor, or Henry VII).

[Luddagain]

Surely Bran and Rickon are the princes eg Perkin and Lambert

[Farwynds Oceanseer]

16 hours ago, Luddagain said:

Surely Bran and Rickon are the princes eg Perkin and Lambert

Bran and Rickon echo the the real Prince Edward and his little brother Richard, the York heirs who vanished from the Tower of London and were presumed murdered by their uncle Richard III, just as the the Stark boys were presumed murdered by their foster-brother Theon. Although a few have been willing to argue that either Simnel or Warbeck was one of the real princes in the tower, most historians agree they were imposters, making them closer analogues to (F)Aegon.

Since motifs from the Wars of the Roses keep popping up in different conflicts between different Westerosi houses, we can't press the parallels far enough to predict ASOIF's plot. Still, you can get a sense of which plot twists would fit better than others.

(F)Aegon seems youthful, impulsive, and overconfident. He grabs unreflectively onto Tyrion's notion of invading Westeros without Dany, and he might be brash enough to marry Elia for what he thinks is love. Since plans usually go awry in ASOIF, it would make sense for (F)Aegon to ruin Varys and Illyrios' designs for moldings a perfect king by developing a will of his own. A flame-out that echoes both Robb Stark's downfall in-universe and Edward IV's near downfall outside it is a plausible way for yet another plan by clever men to fall apart.