The implications of the Paris attacks

[Ice Queen]

You can't say you're sorry and then keep doing it. Hear yourself out. You probably need to go and take a walk and calm yourself if you can't see anyway to post on this threads other than thinking the solution is the indiscriminate genocide of the millions of people living in the ME because that's what the words you're saying mean.

Again, what would be your suggestion?

How would you deal with them?

[Horza]

 

Again, what would be your suggestion?

Are you actually saying that you've thought about the issues seriously and can't think of anything better than genocide?

[Born Yesterday]

 

 

Again, what would be your suggestion?

How would you deal with them?

And what's your argument, exactly? "You find me a way to flawlessly solve a ridiculously complicated problem and arguably the biggest clusterfuck north of the Sahara, or accept my "solution" of killing everyone who lives there?" What the fuck, man?

[OnionAhaiReborn]

Again, what would be your suggestion?

How would you deal with them?

You've proposed the destruction of the entire Middle East- make it uninhabitable, you said.

People really don't need to have an alternative in mind to know that your suggestion is absolutely reprehensible. What you're suggesting would be probably the worst atrocity in the history of mankind!

[salinea]

Again, what would be your suggestion?

How would you deal with them?

Oh, i haven't the least idea. I'm no political, military or diplomatic expert. But you know, not genocide. That's not an answer that is either sane nor practical; even if it wasn't abysmally unethical.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Any suggestion short of genocide is better than CCL's idea.

[polishgenius]

You've proposed the destruction of the entire Middle East- make it uninhabitable, you said.

People really don't need to have an alternative in mind to know that your suggestion is absolutely reprehensible. What you're suggesting would be probably the worst atrocity in the history of mankind!

Probably?


I've seen a few responses along those genocidal lines and it's like... you're doing exactly what the terrorists want! Fucking stop it!

[Free Northman Reborn]

Well, I reckon the West needs to take some lessons from the undisputed world experts in dealing with Islamic terrorism. The Israeli's. They live with this reality every day, and they cope. In fact, they have a thriving, sophisticated democracy in a region otherwise characterized by Medieval theocracies and dictatorships.

In short, while they have all the positive aspects of modern democracy, they balance it with an absolute iron fist of retribution when they are attacked by these madmen.

Europe needs to toughen up if they are to weather this storm. And it is a storm that is not going to blow over in the next few decades. So they better get used to it.

Of course, they could go the alternative route. Placate, tolerate, bend over backwards to accommodate. I'm sure eventually the enemy will decide to be merciful out of the goodness of their hearts.

[Spockydog]

Spocky,

That's why I say this is a catch-22.  A "vigerous" reaponse is expected politically, but it's what the Daesh want.

What they probably want is another Western coalition putting boots on the ground, and then go on and repeat the mistakes and war crimes that took place in Afghanistan and Iraq.

If America had made some different choices during the Iraq war, then a lot of what we are seeing now would not be happening. One of the biggest mistakes was Coalition Provisional Authority Order 2. This was such a terrible idea, one can only assume that Cheney and Rumsfeld actually wanted to create a large, well-armed force of angry insurgents.

 It is my belief that if the US hadn't disbanded the Iraqi army, ISIS would not exist today.

 

[Commodore]

we welcome our own destroyers with open arms

I agree with Mark Steyn that it is the ideology that needs to be targeted, rather than things and people (although sometimes that is the same thing). But what does that look like?

I've long believed that Islam needs to be marginalized, ridiculed, shunned. But that is a tall order given its prevalence and willingness to use extreme violence against those that would dare do so (I wonder if Bill Maher is fearful and brave, or just oblivious  to the danger of what he says). Other measures like banning certain speech and banishing practitioners of a particular religion are a means of targeting the ideology, but are anti-democratic, and have questionable effectiveness and ability to enforce. 

Making Raqqa a parking lot has its appeal as a means of destroying a command and control center, but I'm not sure it would stop incidents like Paris.

 

[A Prince of Dorne]

My hope is that these attacks will help to unite the world powers against these terrorist groups. A common enemy might be just what this world needs to heal itself. We could have countries like Russia, France, USA, and Germany all working together against a common opponent. Think about that

[Assar]

Its known islam is a destructive ideology. Still, its a absolute minority who kills in the name of muhammed. Russia for example is a way bigger threath(to europe, of course to iraqis and syrians the opposite are true). The way to deal with this is to keep cracking down on islamists and various criminals. Look at Nigeria, way more victims, yet no major effects of the islamist campaign. The bloody borders of islam has been known for quite some time,

[A Prince of Dorne]

Well, I reckon the West needs to take some lessons from the undisputed world experts in dealing with Islamic terrorism. The Israeli's. They live with this reality every day, and they cope. In fact, they have a thriving, sophisticated democracy in a region otherwise characterized by Medieval theocracies and dictatorships.

In short, while they have all the positive aspects of modern democracy, they balance it with an absolute iron fist of retribution when they are attacked by these madmen.

Europe needs to toughen up if they are to weather this storm. And it is a storm that is not going to blow over in the next few decades. So they better get used to it.

Of course, they could go the alternative route. Placate, tolerate, bend over backwards to accommodate. I'm sure eventually the enemy will decide to be merciful out of the goodness of their hearts.

Word.

[lacuna]

Is military action the best response here? Terrorists aren't soldiers in a real army of a real country, they are criminals. "Dying gloriously in battle" is the ultimate dream for these people, and probably their number one method of recruitment  - "Die for us and paradise is guaranteed".

The focus, IMHO, should be to make more of an effort to capture the facilitators, the planners and the financial backers, and as far as possible catching the footsoldiers alive so they can go to prison rather than their fucked up version of paradise.

[thewalliswheretheheartis]

Genocide's a bit extreme, but at least maybe take ISIS seriously. I don't think that's too much to ask.

[Horza]

Genocide's a bit extreme, but at least maybe take ISIS seriously. I don't think that's too much to ask.

What does that involve?

[ThePrunesThatWasPromised]

Is military action the best response here? Terrorists aren't soldiers in a real army of a real country, they are criminals. "Dying gloriously in battle" is the ultimate dream for these people, and probably their number one method of recruitment  - "Die for us and paradise is guaranteed".

The focus, IMHO, should be to make more of an effort to capture the facilitators, the planners and the financial backers, and as far as possible catching the footsoldiers alive so they can go to prison rather than their fucked up version of paradise.

Obama shut down Guantanamo.

The answer is eradicating ISIS. Root and stem.

[Malik Ambar]

I know what it feels like. I know I shouldn't bring Mumbai back in this discussion again and again, but the similarities between these two are too overwhelming for me, and frankly, I think the people are feeling somewhat same things, if the reactions themselves aren't outright similar. The thing is, you have to know that turning on the muslims in your country is not the answer. I too thought so back then ; how couldn't I ? Due to circumstances I had to catch a train from Churchgate station that day and not VT. Otherwise, there was a good chance i might've been dead.My daughter had often visited Leopold cafe. We had been to the Taj multiple times. So all outrage is justified. We want our country to go for blood, show no mercy. Only revenge matters now. Anything and everything else is expendable as long as we get these bastards. it's Muslims to you now, it was pakistanis too us back then.

But this thinking is wrong. Did the layman in Lahore have any hand in this ? No. This is the handywork of  a select few. they must of course be punished no matter what. In fact our then Government's reaction was pitifully muted. But this does not mean we should fan our own hatred. Islam, as difficult as it is to believe, is not the enemy. it is an excuse to commit violence. Wipe out all Muslims today, and tomorrow there might be a Hindu ISIS or a Christian Al Qaida. What this showa is our current approach of declaring 'war' on terror is not working at all. Bombing will not solve the problem. Global will must be built over these matters ; geopolitics always hinders any serious effort to globally combat terrors because the big nations and their cohorts are looking out for their ally terror sponsor. So that is what must be expected of your leaders. Don't let this cause any more damage to you than it already has. going against refugees, migrants, or Muslims will not help you.

[Toth]

My hope is that these attacks will help to unite the world powers against these terrorist groups. A common enemy might be just what this world needs to heal itself. We could have countries like Russia, France, USA, and Germany all working together against a common opponent. Think about that

Well, fighting a threat so reviled that you get Israel and Iran to agree on something makes this sound like a serious possibility to be honest.

And for all who are opposed to military intervention: This is not Al Qaida anymore. The IS has an army and they gain ground. It is difficult enough find those who finance them, but defeating them in the field to rid them of their dream of creating a totalitarian state is an actual possibility. I'm pretty much comparing it here with WW2. It was pretty much the only war I know of where a total military defeat didn't result in revanchism and I see the reason in there that Germany was rebuild during occupation. I see it as a valid possibility for the Middle-East: Occupying and rebuilding. You can defeat extremism by giving people better options, but we can't give them better options if we leave these countries in ashes.

[OnionAhaiReborn]

Obama shut down Guantanamo.

No, he did not. He wanted to, but was met with overwhelming Congressional opposition.