AGOT foreshadowing Jon as the last hero?

[Lady Fishbiscuit]

I'm doing another re-read and towards the end of AGOT, I spotted this from one of Sansa's chapters...

"Frog-faced Lord Slynt sat at the end of the council table wearing a black velvet doublet and a shiny cloth-of-gold cape, nodding with approval every time the king pronounced a sentence. Sansa stared hard at his ugly face, remembering how he had thrown down her father for Ser Ilyn to behead, wishing she could hurt him, wishing that some hero would throw him down and cut off his head."

Turns out in ADWD, 'some hero' (Jon Snow) does indeed throw him down and cut off his head!  This is after Littlefinger has told her there are no heroes.

Maybe Jon is the last?

Possibly just a coincidence in the wording but caught my eye nonetheless.

[Knight Of Winter]

Hi, and welcome to the forums

I would bet that the line is here deliberately, that it was not just put there randomly by GRRM. After all, in his first version of Jon' chapter, GRRM had Jon simply hand Janos instead of beheading him.

However, I think that the line refers to Jon's "heroic" nature and personality, rather than him being the Last hero (which he may or may not be, but the line above is irrelevant in that).

[Robb_Warged]

Really cool catch

[Lady Fishbiscuit]

Hi, and welcome to the forums

Thank you, Ser  

lurked for a long time and been posting for a while, but the site update seems to have reduced my post count!

[VenezuelanLord]

Good catch, i think that Jon its heavily hinted to be a Hero since his early development, the first heroic deed he does its saving the pups 

[Sunandspear]

Jon has a hero's arc, in fact I think out of all ASOIAF characters he resembles a classic hero most, but wheter he's the Last Hero is still to be determined. Actually, I think that because he resembles a classic hero, GRRM will twist his character arc in some unexpected way.

[Joan Jett]

I thought I read somewhere that George originally intended for Jon to hang Janos Slynt? I'll try and find a source.  But anyway I'm pretty sure the two quotes are just coincidence.

 

Bran is the last Hero probably. 

[The Answer]

Nice catch!  This makes me want to do a re-read but it’s just sooooo many pages.  For some reason whenever I try, I just get stuck within the first few hundred pages of book1. 

I’ve never been the biggest fan of Sansa but there is a simple way she could earn my admiration – by having her storyline intertwine with Jon’s.  Foreshadowing like this makes me hope that could happen, plus their relatively close proximity to each other in the North makes me hopeful as well.  

 

 

[Lady Fishbiscuit]

Jon has a hero's arc, in fact I think out of all ASOIAF characters he resembles a classic hero most, but wheter he's the Last Hero is still to be determined. Actually, I think that because he resembles a classic hero, GRRM will twist his character arc in some unexpected way.

I agree, I don't think the rest of his story going to be straightforward or expected.  I actually think he'll not make it to the end.  I believe magic will be needed to resurrect him and then, ironically, he will be involved in the eradication of magic as part of defeating the forthcoming long night, which will mean his own end.  Very heroic.

Do we know what happened to The Last Hero when he defeated the long night?

[Ser Greggor the Baked]

I agree, I don't think the rest of his story going to be straightforward or expected.  I actually think he'll not make it to the end.

Yeah, I agree. Jon is too obvious a hero for him to be the hero. I still think there is a good chance he stays in Ghost for the rest of the story and helps the war to come that way. 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I think that it shows that Jon will be the hero at the end. However:

Bran is the last Hero probably. 

[Sunandspear]

I agree, I don't think the rest of his story going to be straightforward or expected.  I actually think he'll not make it to the end.  I believe magic will be needed to resurrect him and then, ironically, he will be involved in the eradication of magic as part of defeating the forthcoming long night, which will mean his own end.  Very heroic.

Do we know what happened to The Last Hero when he defeated the long night?

Well that'll be sad, because I love Jon, but I'm always ready to see a favorite of mine die if it benefits the story. GRRM left us with two options for Jon's resurrection - Mel and Ghost or maybe both will be needed to do it. But anyway, your scenario can easily came true.

 

I'm not sure about the Last Hero. If I'm not mistaken when Old Nan was telling Bran his story, they got interrupted before she could finish. I'll try to find that part. I also love the idea about Bran being the Last Hero.

[TeamWhiteWalkerz]

All of you that are saying "Jon can't be the hero/he'll die/he'll stay in ghost because GRRM TWIST", really need to stop and realize that asoiaf is a classic fantasy story. Granted, it has a a darker coat of paint, but it's what's on the inside that counts and on inside, asoiaf is a fantasy, not a "how will the author troll us this time"-y. 

[Julia H.]

I'm doing another re-read and towards the end of AGOT, I spotted this from one of Sansa's chapters...

"Frog-faced Lord Slynt sat at the end of the council table wearing a black velvet doublet and a shiny cloth-of-gold cape, nodding with approval every time the king pronounced a sentence. Sansa stared hard at his ugly face, remembering how he had thrown down her father for Ser Ilyn to behead, wishing she could hurt him, wishing that some hero would throw him down and cut off his head."

Turns out in ADWD, 'some hero' (Jon Snow) does indeed throw him down and cut off his head!  This is after Littlefinger has told her there are no heroes.

Maybe Jon is the last?

Possibly just a coincidence in the wording but caught my eye nonetheless.

I think the allusion to Jon as a hero is very important here. Sansa used to live in a fantasy world full of great knights and legendary heroes. In this world, Jon had no real place, Sansa didn't know how to deal with the existence of a bastard brother. Then she learned the sad truth about knights, which left her bitterly disillusioned. Yet, the quote suggests that there still may be heroes, and closer to her than she would think. Later she will "become" a bastard and she will probably be disinherited by Robb's will, while Jon will grow into the role of a "real" Stark more and more. Sansa's thought suggests that she will perhaps re-evaluate her definition of a hero, and her new definition will be based on real people rather than the knights in the songs. 

On the other hand, this quotation calls attention to the fact that Jon has the true hero's arc in the story. I may be wrong, but at this point I don't really believe that Jon's arc will change into something very different. GRRM has done that with Ned and also with Robb, but it would be pointless to do it again and again, besides, there are significant differences in character development between Robb and Jon, for example. Robb, most of all, is the character that appeared to be the classic sort of hero of the story (destined to win a war to avenge his father, free his sisters and punish the bad guys) only to meet a tragic end rather quickly. I don't think the same will happen to Jon. Jon's hero arc is built up more slowly and perhaps in a less obvious way (Robb is all abut fighting, Jon is not), but he has the better training, the more gradual development, the more reflective nature ( or at least we know about his reflections). Robb is hailed as a triumphant battle commander and the heir of ancient kings (rather like in a song), while Jon's most important achievement has been so far the peace / alliance with the wildlings. Jon's fate is about sacrifice rather than glory. His hero arc does not need to be interrupted to be "original" - it is already an arc that can make the reader think about the meaning of true heroism, which can be manifested in other forms than just conventional fighting.

Does that make Jon the Last Hero? I think both Jon and Bran have "Last Hero potential", and we may not even end up with a single equivalent of the Last Hero, but I'm quite certain that Jon is a hero. Sansa may well realize it one day that heroes do exist after all, even if they are very different from those of the songs. 

 

 

[Darren Long]

Plenty more that that that foreshadows a hero's journey for Jon.  Soon he will go to the underworld and come back like some of the great mythic heroes.  It is he who fits the Joseph Campbell version of a hero best.

 

http://www.thewritersjourney.com/hero's_journey.htm

[Lord Lannister]

I think it's just a neat easter egg. Certainly Jon has a heroic nature, but I don't see beheading Janos Slynt as any sort of foreshadowing for the Last Hero. As mentioned already, more signs point to Bran.

Jon might have a better chance at laying claim to being Azor Azai come again.

[sweetsunray]

Yes, good catch.

GRRM repeats the foreshadowing of Slynt's beheading by an honorable NW-commander in another Sansa chapter in aCoK in Joffrey's name day tourney, when Morros Slynt jousts against Balon Swann.

With the Swann family one Swann family member aids one of the war parties: Balon becomes KG, Donnel (the heir and Balon's brother) fights for Renly then for Stannis. Ravella Swann is the much spirited Lady Smallwood of Acorn Hall who helps the BwB. Lord Gulian Swann says he will "not take part in the wars" to Davos according to a canon game guideline book. According to that source he is one of the few though who welcomed Davos during his journey to find support for Stannis and shared guest bread with him. Jon guests Stannis himself in a similar manner. The Swann's castle Stonehelm oversees the Red Watch of the Dornish Marches. Their sigil are a black and white swan at opposing sides on a white and black field respectively; as in they cover all sides, and thereby ensuring some type of neutrality. Jon writes a letter to Cersei saying the same.

Balon is the one who makes the joke about having to need 4 glasses if you lift your glass to the king's health. Varys reports this to Tyrion, who dismisses it as a harmless drunken joke (this is before he becomes KG). During Tyrion's trial he says that he saw Tyrion slap Joffrey, but also that Tyrion is a brave man and that he does not believe Tyrion killed Joffrey. He's one of the few witnesses therefore who doesn't seem to be bought but answers truthfully. Sansa thinks he might be the mysterious hero who wrote her a letter to save her. Anyhow, as KG Balon seems to do his duty without losing his personal beliefs of what is right.

Morros Slynt wears a black-and-gold checkered cloak over black armor with golden scrollwork. Janos was a gold cloak, but then later takes the black. In reality, he always remains the gold-cloak who favors the golden Lannisters. He also writes a letter to Cersei as an insider of the watch. Curious enough the letter implies that Janos is not LC at the time (Stannis making common cause with the wildlings), and therefore sent the letter while Jon was LC. Since Janos is not LC, sending such a letter to Cersei is remarkable - communication by raven (in or out) should have to go by LC. This is what the scrollwork inlay of the black armor alludes to.

Joffrey hoots that Morros is an upjumped oaf. Morros doesn't seem to know what to do with the lance and shield. He drops it, fights for balance, then loses his seat, has his foot stuck in a stirrup, and his "head bounces on the ground". Meanwhile Sansa wonders whether her vengeful prayers are heard. A paragraph earlier she wishes Morros falls and shames himself. Janos does a shameful thing when murdering Barra, needs to drop his sigil (a bloody spear) when taking the black, fights to become LC, loses the election, gets himself caught in his own "stirrups" when being too confident he can tell Jon Snow no, and his head definitely bounced on the ground.

[Lady Fishbiscuit]

I think the allusion to Jon as a hero is very important here. Sansa used to live in a fantasy world full of great knights and legendary heroes. In this world, Jon had no real place, Sansa didn't know how to deal with the existence of a bastard brother. Then she learned the sad truth about knights, which left her bitterly disillusioned. Yet, the quote suggests that there still may be heroes, and closer to her than she would think. Later she will "become" a bastard and she will probably be disinherited by Robb's will, while Jon will grow into the role of a "real" Stark more and more. Sansa's thought suggests that she will perhaps re-evaluate her definition of a hero, and her new definition will be based on real people rather than the knights in the songs. 

Definitely this.  GRRM loves an underdog (Jon, Tyrion, Arya, Bran, the Hound, etc. etc.) and a regular theme is these characters being overlooked, underrated, misunderstood and shunned while they are the ones actually doing good.  Sansa is the personification of this with her idolising and romanticising of kings and knights and lords and ladies and her distaste for 'bastards, cripples and broken things'.  Her story is about growing up, starting with her beginning to understand the Hound and then teaming up with Ser Dontos.  This will hopefully lead to her seeing past the imperfections to the 'true' heroes.  

[PhoenixfromAshes]

I agree, I don't think the rest of his story going to be straightforward or expected.  I actually think he'll not make it to the end.  I believe magic will be needed to resurrect him and then, ironically, he will be involved in the eradication of magic as part of defeating the forthcoming long night, which will mean his own end.  Very heroic.

Dying for a second time sounds really repetitive. I think Jon's biggest sacrifice has yet to come, but doesn't mean its his life again. 

[TRLR]

Jon is definitely fits the hero archetype. But I think his "death" will change him tremendously. We still don't know the extent of those changes but he will not be the same Jon we know from aGOT through aDWD.