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Where did Rhaegar get the garland from?


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Link?

Actually, she has a point. We should be providing a link that goes that other way to prove that they only come from Winterfell.

Using the search terms blue and rose on asearchoficeandfire.com the only thing I can find that is relevant is the Bale the Bard story which shows that they are grown at Winterfell. But there is no indication I can find that they are not grown anywhere else.

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Actually, she has a point. We should be providing a link that goes that other way to prove that they only come from Winterfell.

Using the search terms blue and rose on asearchoficeandfire.com the only thing I can find that is relevant is the Bale the Bard story which shows that they are grown at Winterfell. But there is no indication I can find that they are not grown anywhere else.

It's not textual, but it's kinda implied or hinted.

'All I ask is a flower,' Bael answered, 'the fairest flower that blooms in the gardens o' Winterfell.'"

"Now as it happened the winter roses had only then come into bloom, and no flower is so rare nor precious. So the Stark sent to his glass gardens and commanded that the most beautiful o' the winter roses be plucked for the singer's payment. And so it was done. But when morning come, the singer had vanished . . . and so had Lord Brandon's maiden daughter. Her bed they found empty, but for the pale blue rose that Bael had left on the pillow where her head had lain."

 
In Winterfell grows something called "winter" roses. Among these, the pale blue rose blooms. So, the pale blue rose is of the "winter rose" variety. Winterfell seems to have other roses, though.
 
The text doesn't says that these winter roses can't grow somewhere else, but why would other places grow roses in glass gardens? They are needed in Winterfell and the North because they have winter pretty much every time (Sansa remembers snow and she's a child of summer).
 
I kinda feel that Martin simply wants us to assume the blue rose is linked to Winterfell. If we start to ask more questions, we're going to end up with another Lemongate and... I personally don't want that. Please.
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It's not textual, but it's kinda implied or hinted.

No it isn't.

 
In Winterfell grows something called "winter" roses. Among these, the pale blue rose blooms. So, the pale blue rose is of the "winter rose" variety. Winterfell seems to have other roses, though. 
 
Agreed.
The text doesn't says that these winter roses can't grow somewhere else, but why would other places grow roses in glass gardens? They are needed in Winterfell and the North because they have winter pretty much every time (Sansa remembers snow and she's a child of summer).
 
You are making the error of assuming because Winterfell must grow them in glass gardens so must other places. But thats not implied in any way.
 
Its straightforward. We have three data points.
1. There are Winter roses that are blue, and especially beautiful.
2. In Winterfell they are grown in the glass gardens.
3. The crown for the QoLaB at Harrenhal tourney was made of them.
There is another set of unrelated data points about how Lyanna liked them, and how they keep turning up as motives in connected situations. But none of those data points speak in any way as to where the blue roses come from.
There is no indication or suggestion that they only come from WInterfell, or that they can only be grown in glass houses.
 
I kinda feel that Martin simply wants us to assume the blue rose is linked to Winterfell. If we start to ask more questions, we're going to end up with another Lemongate and... I personally don't want that. Please.

It doesn't matter what you feel Martin wants us to think, it matters what the text actually tells us. There is only one question here, and that is "why do we think Blue Roses only grow in Winterfell?"
And the answer to that appears to be "no reason at all".

Is the opposite to lemongate.

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I honestly think this should be common sense. 

blue rose are still roses. 

Just like people with different colors, they follow same physiology. 

Some special biotechnology may make a rose bloom in winter and snow without glass green house. 

But I do not think it can happen in westeros. 

 

So you just made it up then?

Westeros is a varied landscape of different climates.

Do the same flowers that grow in Arizona grow in Maine?

Yes, they can be MADE to grow there but you can not just assume that in a a world stuck in the middle ages technology that flowers that are found in the North would be widley available everywhere in Westeros.

Or that the seasons could not widley affect when some flowers are available. Only during a summer spell vs after a winter, etc...

Actually, she has a point. We should be providing a link that goes that other way to prove that they only come from Winterfell.

Using the search terms blue and rose on asearchoficeandfire.com the only thing I can find that is relevant is the Bale the Bard story which shows that they are grown at Winterfell. But there is no indication I can find that they are not grown anywhere else.

I dont have to provide a Link that Winter roses are not available everywhere, I did not make the claim that they grow everywhere.

 

It's not textual, but it's kinda implied or hinted.

 
In Winterfell grows something called "winter" roses. Among these, the pale blue rose blooms. So, the pale blue rose is of the "winter rose" variety. Winterfell seems to have other roses, though.
 
The text doesn't says that these winter roses can't grow somewhere else, but why would other places grow roses in glass gardens? They are needed in Winterfell and the North because they have winter pretty much every time (Sansa remembers snow and she's a child of summer).
 
I kinda feel that Martin simply wants us to assume the blue rose is linked to Winterfell. If we start to ask more questions, we're going to end up with another Lemongate and... I personally don't want that. Please.

I am simply saying that it is very possible that there are flowers, especially ones that Called a winter rose (winter associated with the North) might only be found in the the North or Northern adjacent lands.

If this rose grew everywhere, including desert climates like Dorne, why is it called a Winter Rose?

No it isn't.

 
Agreed.
 
You are making the error of assuming because Winterfell must grow them in glass gardens so must other places. But thats not implied in any way.
 
Its straightforward. We have three data points.
1. There are Winter roses that are blue, and especially beautiful.
2. In Winterfell they are grown in the glass gardens.
3. The crown for the QoLaB at Harrenhal tourney was made of them.
There is another set of unrelated data points about how Lyanna liked them, and how they keep turning up as motives in connected situations. But none of those data points speak in any way as to where the blue roses come from.
There is no indication or suggestion that they only come from WInterfell, or that they can only be grown in glass houses.
 

It doesn't matter what you feel Martin wants us to think, it matters what the text actually tells us. There is only one question here, and that is "why do we think Blue Roses only grow in Winterfell?"
And the answer to that appears to be "no reason at all".

Is the opposite to lemongate.

I do not mean to suggest that they only come from Winterfell or need glass houses to grow.

I am saying that something called a Winter Rose, most likely grows in the North and would be scare the further south you go.

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So you just made it up then?

Westeros is a varied landscape of different climates.

Do the same flowers that grow in Arizona grow in Maine?

Yes, they can be MADE to grow there but you can not just assume that in a a world stuck in the middle ages technology that flowers that are found in the North would be widley available everywhere in Westeros.

Or that the seasons could not widley affect when some flowers are available. Only during a summer spell vs after a winter, etc...

I dont have to provide a Link that Winter roses are not available everywhere, I did not make the claim that they grow everywhere.

I am simply saying that it is very possible that there are flowers, especially ones that Called a winter rose (winter associated with the North) might only be found in the the North or Northern adjacent lands.

If this rose grew everywhere, including desert climates like Dorne, why is it called a Winter Rose?

I do not mean to suggest that they only come from Winterfell or need glass houses to grow.

I am saying that something called a Winter Rose, most likely grows in the North and would be scare the further south you go.

like I said, blue rose is still a rose. It surely grow better and more in warm highgarden than in cold winterfell. 

It is called as winter rose likely because the Color is icy blue like frost, a cold tone color. This certainly has no hint that it can only grow in north or winter. It grows wherever rose can grow.

even nowadays we can not make a rose grow and bloom in snow, it needs green house. how come westeros can? 

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like I said, blue rose is still a rose. It surely grow better and more in warm highgarden than in cold winterfell. 

It is called as winter rose likely because the Color is icy blue like frost, a cold tone color. This certainly has no hint that it can only grow in north or winter. It grows wherever rose can grow.

even nowadays we can not make a rose grow and bloom in snow, it needs green house. how come westeros can? 

Because it is a fantasy world?

 

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I do not think its fantasy lies in the agriculture of roses. 

It is everywhere, in the genitics of the people (how Baratheons always have black hair) it is in the animals (Dragons, Krackens, Ice Spiders), seasons, life and death its self.

A Rose that blooms in Winter is what throws you off?

 

And I am not saying that it only blooms in Winter, I am saying that you are just assuming that this rose grows everywhere and stated info saying as much. You have no idea if this is the rarest flower in all of Westeros or as common as a thistle weed.

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It is everywhere, in the genitics of the people (how Baratheons always have black hair) it is in the animals (Dragons, Krackens, Ice Spiders), seasons, life and death its self.

A Rose that blooms in Winter is what throws you off?

 

And I am not saying that it only blooms in Winter, I am saying that you are just assuming that this rose grows everywhere and stated info saying as much. You have no idea if this is the rarest flower in all of Westeros or as common as a thistle weed.

I can provide you three possible hints:

1. The room of TOJ has a smell of roses. Ned's dream has a storm of rose petals. A small garland which was used two years ago can not make this happen. This means Rhaegar got new roses locally for Lyanna in TOJ during their stay. likely shipped from Reach. 

2. Garland in HH. it is at least several months distance from winterfell to HH. there is no fedex one day shipping. So the blue roses for the crown come from local shops. 

3. even in Winterfell, the roses and other flowers were planted in glass garden, which means it is similar to green house, much warmer than outside. 

So yes, GRRM is likely following common sense on rose agriculture. Otherwise he does not even need to say "glass garden" of winterfell. 

We all know what "glass" means here. 

 

 

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I can provide you three possible hints:

1. The room of TOJ has a smell of roses. Ned's dream has a storm of rose petals. A small garland which was used two years ago can not make this happen. This means Rhaegar got new roses locally for Lyanna in TOJ during their stay. likely shipped from Reach. 

2. Garland in HH. it is at least several months distance from winterfell to HH. there is no fedex one day shipping. So the blue roses for the crown come from local shops. 

3. even in Winterfell, the roses and other flowers were planted in glass garden, which means it is similar to green house, much warmer than outside. 

So yes, GRRM is likely following common sense on rose agriculture. Otherwise he does not even need to say "glass garden" of winterfell. 

We all know what "glass" means here. 

 

 

1:Yeah roses, not Winter Roses

2:Harrenhal is still North compared to Dorne or the Reach

3:Never said they were only grown in Winterfell

4: Huh?

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1:Yeah roses, not Winter Roses

2:Harrenhal is still North compared to Dorne or the Reach

3:Never said they were only grown in Winterfell

4: Huh?

1:Yeah roses, not Winter Roses

2:Harrenhal is still North compared to Dorne or the Reach

3:Never said they were only grown in Winterfell

4: Huh?

they are blue as death. 

Then winterfell is south compared to wall. What is your point? So you agree they can grow in HH? Ok, This all I need. 

 

 

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So you just made it up then?

    ...

I dont have to provide a Link that Winter roses are not available everywhere, I did not make the claim that they grow everywhere.

I am simply saying that it is very possible that there are flowers, especially ones that Called a winter rose (winter associated with the North) might only be found in the the North or Northern adjacent lands.

If this rose grew everywhere, including desert climates like Dorne, why is it called a Winter Rose?

I do not mean to suggest that they only come from Winterfell or need glass houses to grow.

It certainly sounds that way.

I am saying that something called a Winter Rose, most likely grows in the North and would be scare the further south you go.

So you just made it up then? :P
Hoestly, I can;t see the difference between your statements and hers, textually, except hers make more common sense.

Winter happens everywhere, even the far south like Dorne, though its effects are different. And the fact that the Winter roses must be grown inside the glass houses at Winterfell indicates that they probably are not native to that region.
Thats the only indication we have as to where they grow - in the glass gardens at Winterfell, indicating they are not native there. But we have no clue as to where else they might be grown, native or otherwise.

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No hard proofs for anything, there is just not enough info for in in the text, but I believe:

1, Rhaegar got the blue Winter roses from the Isle of Faces or knew where to find them near Harrenhall due some magical interference be it a dream or some prophecy he knew about. Other people would not be able to find them outside North or Winterfell.

2, There was probably a more usual crown provided by Lord Whent, but the blue roses crown was made/ordered to be made by Rhaegar specially for Lyanna as he was planning to crown her beforehand he entered the list. It could be that using his own crown is the right of every winner, I could be it was an exception and everyone had to deal with it simply because he was a crown prince.

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Sorry if this is stupid question. Where did Rhaegar get the garland of winter roses from? Did they have some pretty flower garland prepaired in advance? Do the blue winter roses grow near Harrenhal? Did he already have it before he started jousting? Meera, telling her story about the little crannogman says that princess Elia brought dozen lady companions with her and that knights begged them for their favors to wear during the tourney. IIRC, Jorah Mormont mentioned how he asked his future wife for her favor at another tourney and that he fought like never before and won that tourney and crowned her The Queen of Love and Beauty and even married her. So.. is it possible that Rhaegar maybe met Lyanna and talked to her at some point, maybe after the Knight of the Laughing Tree incident? Maybe he even asked for her favor and later, when he won the tourney, he actually crowned her QoLaB. Thanks for your patience with me:-)

They were silk flowers.  No expiration date and cheap.

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They are called "Winter Roses" because they bloom during winter.  Harrenhall took place during winter ... or during a "false spring" during Winter.  So Winter Roses were blooming somewhere in Westeros, probably in the South.

They are not native to the North.  Winterfell needs a heated greenhouse to maintain them.

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They are called "Winter Roses" because they bloom during winter.  Harrenhall took place during winter ... or during a "false spring" during Winter.  So Winter Roses were blooming somewhere in Westeros, probably in the South.

They are not native to the North.  Winterfell needs a heated greenhouse to maintain them.

it is not blooming in winter (cold climate) if this is you meant . It is blooming in warm climate. Otherwise Why winterfell needed a heated green house to provide a warm environment to raise it, together with other flowers and vegetables? 

The name winter was likely due to its icy blue color like frost. Cold tone color. 

Do you know there is a green rose which was called emerald sea? 

It is just a metaphor. 

 

 

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it is not blooming in winter (cold climate) if this is you meant . It is blooming in warm climate. Otherwise Why winterfell needed a heated green house to provide a warm environment to raise it, together with other flowers and vegetables? 

It is blooming in Winter (the season).  That is what I meant.  That is what "Winter" normally means.  Winter normally refers to a season, not a place or a climate; and in any event I specified that meaning.  I agree that it blooms in warm climate for exactly the reason you state.  Did I not say so?  I agree they are not native to the North.  Did I not say so?  Warm climates also have a "winter".

Obviously they must have been blooming in what was, at least technically, Winter, in order to have been available during the "False Spring".   So yes, they do bloom in Winter.

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It is blooming in Winter (the season).  That is what I meant.  That is what "Winter" normally means.  Winter normally refers to a season, not a place or a climate; and in any event I specified that meaning.  I agree that it blooms in warm climate for exactly the reason you state.  Did I not say so?  I agree they are not native to the North.  Did I not say so?  Warm climates also have a "winter".

Obviously they must have been blooming in what was, at least technically, Winter, in order to have been available during the "False Spring".   So yes, they do bloom in Winter.

I agree, it can surely bloom in winter season (either in a green house, or in a place where winter is not that cold, such as in old town or sunspear). 

Winter can be different across the westeros. within the same winter, the temperature in Winterfell and in old town must be very different. like the winter of Minnesota and winter of Florida. 

I only wanted to state that, winter roses, or any type of roses, can not bloom in winterfell in a winter season if there is no heated green house. It has to grow in a relatively warm environment. It is impossible to bloom outside in the icy and snowy weather. 

 

 

 

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