The Pact of Ice and Fire and what it might actually mean

[AlaskanSandman]

I actually have a hard time understanding where you are coming from, because it really is a lot and I don't know where to start. Your theory is about so much of the history of Westeros (and Planetos) being completely different so I don't know what parts you actually consider true. I would really like to understand where you are coming from, but it's like I can't find the entrance to the huge buildng that's your theory.

(most events i believe happen, i just dont think they happened when and in the order presented to us.)

It started with questions. 

• Why are there knights in the Age of Heroes
• Why are there Dragons in the Age of Heroes.
• Why is there Dragon Steel in the Long Night
• Why are there Andals in the Age of Heroes.

Among other questions. Then there are differing accounts. Namely the one that caught my eye was the large spread of time for the possible Andal Invasion. 6000, 4000, or 2000 years. Thats quite a difference. The 2000 year mark struck me most.

Ser Artys Arryn and the Winged Knight tale, and Alyssa Arryn allegedly being only 2000 years ago further caught my eye.

If you cant tell, there is a theme building. Time manipulation, or time misunderstanding. 

There is also the account of when the Blackwoods usurped the Brackens.

As far as the Andal invasion, it's discussed further in that thread. This is the first marker of time to use roughly. 

The next, is the Golden Empire of Yi-ti which we discuss in the other thread. This helps further back up the Andal Invasion as it show the Golden Empire of Yi-ti is no more than a couple thousand years old. Not near old enough to reach the fabled Long Night that was supposedly 10000 years ago.

It is alot of information, but within these 2 threads helps solidify some things roughly.

Fml has a idea about time that i also agree with. Use the Long Night as a marker. All the cultures almost have tales of a Long Night. By this logic, they all happened at or around the same time. The Long Night that effected every one. 

Short example. 

If there are Andals in the Age of Heroes (Even early Andals), and Knights in the Age of Heroes, then the start of the Andal migration had to have started in the latter half at least of the Age of Heroes. With the final migration taking place about 2000 years ago abouts.

There is obviously much much more to this, but im trying to show where i entered in at and why.

Yes you can trust the history all you want. That is of course your choice is that is indeed the case. I my self though am of the opinion the Maesters and Septons rid the world of Dragons the last time and are manipulating events for this reason. Long and short of it.

Further notes past these subjects works into better understanding the proper order of time to understand what the Maesters and Septons game is.

I also explain what i believe is Bloodravens plan, to bring back the Dragons. I explain using genetics that i think the 3 heads of the Dragon are Tyrion, Jon, and Dany. Jon is indeed the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, and Dany is the daughter of Ashara Dayne and Rhaegar. Dany's genetic blood coming to X chromosome Dayne and X chromosome Blackwood. In what i believe is the original union of fire and ice.

Also i go on to link the Andals, Ironborn, and Valyrians. 

Thats pretty much the Long and Short of it.

[FreyPiesForSkagos]

(most events i believe happen, i just dont think they happened when and in the order presented to us.)

It started with questions. 

• Why are there knights in the Age of Heroes
• Why are there Dragons in the Age of Heroes.
• Why is there Dragon Steel in the Long Night
• Why are there Andals in the Age of Heroes.

Among other questions. Then there are differing accounts. Namely the one that caught my eye was the large spread of time for the possible Andal Invasion. 6000, 4000, or 2000 years. Thats quite a difference. The 2000 year mark struck me most.

Ser Artys Arryn and the Winged Knight tale, and Alyssa Arryn allegedly being only 2000 years ago further caught my eye.

If you cant tell, there is a theme building. Time manipulation, or time misunderstanding. 

There is also the account of when the Blackwoods usurped the Brackens.

As far as the Andal invasion, it's discussed further in that thread. This is the first marker of time to use roughly. 

The next, is the Golden Empire of Yi-ti which we discuss in the other thread. This helps further back up the Andal Invasion as it show the Golden Empire of Yi-ti is no more than a couple thousand years old. Not near old enough to reach the fabled Long Night that was supposedly 10000 years ago.

It is alot of information, but within these 2 threads helps solidify some things roughly.

Fml has a idea about time that i also agree with. Use the Long Night as a marker. All the cultures almost have tales of a Long Night. By this logic, they all happened at or around the same time. The Long Night that effected every one. 

Short example. 

If there are Andals in the Age of Heroes (Even early Andals), and Knights in the Age of Heroes, then the start of the Andal migration had to have started in the latter half at least of the Age of Heroes. With the final migration taking place about 2000 years ago abouts.

There is obviously much much more to this, but im trying to show where i entered in at and why.

Yes you can trust the history all you want. That is of course your choice is that is indeed the case. I my self though am of the opinion the Maesters and Septons rid the world of Dragons the last time and are manipulating events for this reason. Long and short of it.

Further notes past these subjects works into better understanding the proper order of time to understand what the Maesters and Septons game is.

I also explain what i believe is Bloodravens plan, to bring back the Dragons. I explain using genetics that i think the 3 heads of the Dragon are Tyrion, Jon, and Dany. Jon is indeed the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, and Dany is the daughter of Ashara Dayne and Rhaegar. Dany's genetic blood coming to X chromosome Dayne and X chromosome Blackwood. In what i believe is the original union of fire and ice.

Also i go on to link the Andals, Ironborn, and Valyrians. 

Thats pretty much the Long and Short of it.

Okay, that helps a bit at least. I do agree with Bloodraven wanting to bring back dragons and the masters and the Faith trying to rid the world of magic and dragons, anyway. We are at least on the same page there. I also agree that it makes sense that there was actually Valyrian steel and dragons and so on during the Long Night. That makes perfect sense. I also buy a lot of the x-chromosome stuff. Preston Jacobs finished his series on that topic just yesterday and I liked a lot about it. (I even mention him more than once in my article above.) I wish I had the time to work my way through those threads right now. I fear I don't have it on my hands at the moment. Probably at the end of the week.

What is the reason that makes you think that the whole timeline is flawed? I mean, What would the maesters gain by, basically, stretching history?

[AlaskanSandman]

Okay, that helps a bit at least. I do agree with Bloodraven wanting to bring back dragons and the masters and the Faith trying to rid the world of magic and dragons, anyway. We are at least on the same page there. I also agree that it makes sense that there was actually Valyrian steel and dragons and so on during the Long Night. That makes perfect sense. I also buy a lot of the x-chromosome stuff. Preston Jacobs finished his series on that topic just yesterday and I liked a lot about it. (I even mention him more than once in my article above.) I wish I had the time to work my way through those threads right now. I fear I don't have it on my hands at the moment. Probably at the end of the week.
What is the reason that makes you think that the whole timeline is flawed? I mean, What would the maesters gain by, basically, stretching history?

Did he?? I didn't see his last one yet and was really curious if he was going the same direction. We differed a little on approach though. I do really enjoy his theories even when i dont agree, he at least puts alottt of time into his thoughts. His video on the minds of wolves and ravens or what ever was very interesting.

Lol yea time is always an issue for me too, i do alot on my phone haha

Just my own reading was enough to make me question the exaggeration of time, but an interview with Martin is what led me more to think things are jumbled. Martin said as much, the Maesters may have events a bit jumbled.

Now that's the big questions even i put forth and cant fully answer. Your the Andals and the Faith, you came to Westeros to rid the world of Dragons, and you succeeded at least in Westeros... so why distance your self from it???

I havn't honestly answered that fully and a reason i love seeing others theories, other than just challenging my own.

In my thread showing links between the Ironborn, the Andals, and the Valyrians i think is pointing me in the right direction, but there are some things i havnt puzzled out yet. One big thing is that the Andal Jon Arryn had blue eyes, blonde hair, and an aquiline nose. Now this does sound Valyrian, and the Hightowers also fit this. The Hightowers being a sea people too who pop up out of no where. Yet they say House Hoare had black eyes, black hair, and black heart from the taint of the Andals... which has me a little stumped. In my thread i highlight where Yandel mentions in the earliest accounts Hoare was called GreyIron sometimes. So i link House Hoare to House GreyIron from the same Island. Again though, black hair and black eyes dont sound Andal, it sounds more Baratheon. Though Baratheon is a bastard branch of the Targaryens so that may explain how they are still indeed the same. 

Sorry, rambling now. Wont understand some of that till you check out the links between the Andals and the Ironborn. 

Check them out though when you get some time. Maybe you can spot something i missed and add more to it to answer more

[FreyPiesForSkagos]

Did he?? I didn't see his last one yet and was really curious if he was going the same direction. We differed a little on approach though. I do really enjoy his theories even when i dont agree, he at least puts alottt of time into his thoughts. His video on the minds of wolves and ravens or what ever was very interesting.

Lol yea time is always an issue for me too, i do alot on my phone haha

Just my own reading was enough to make me question the exaggeration of time, but an interview with Martin is what led me more to think things are jumbled. Martin said as much, the Maesters may have events a bit jumbled.

Now that's the big questions even i put forth and cant fully answer. Your the Andals and the Faith, you came to Westeros to rid the world of Dragons, and you succeeded at least in Westeros... so why distance your self from it???

I havn't honestly answered that fully and a reason i love seeing others theories, other than just challenging my own.

In my thread showing links between the Ironborn, the Andals, and the Valyrians i think is pointing me in the right direction, but there are some things i havnt puzzled out yet. One big thing is that the Andal Jon Arryn had blue eyes, blonde hair, and an aquiline nose. Now this does sound Valyrian, and the Hightowers also fit this. The Hightowers being a sea people too who pop up out of no where. Yet they say House Hoare had black eyes, black hair, and black heart from the taint of the Andals... which has me a little stumped. In my thread i highlight where Yandel mentions in the earliest accounts Hoare was called GreyIron sometimes. So i link House Hoare to House GreyIron from the same Island. Again though, black hair and black eyes dont sound Andal, it sounds more Baratheon. Though Baratheon is a bastard branch of the Targaryens so that may explain how they are still indeed the same. 

Sorry, rambling now. Wont understand some of that till you check out the links between the Andals and the Ironborn. 

Check them out though when you get some time. Maybe you can spot something i missed and add more to it to answer more

So, let's play the devil's advocate for a moment here: The seed is strong. So House Baratheon's genes - at least those responsible for the balck hair etc. - are very dominant. So, when Orys Baratheon married Argella Durrandon and these genes were originally Durrandon genes. (Usually Orys AND Argella are both depicted with black hair, so we can't really tell.) House Durradon might have had some Andal princesses bring the black hair into their genepool. If that's all true than there would be nothing suspicious about House Baratheon and House Hoare having black hair, right?

To get that straight: You argue that Andals, Valyrians and Ironborn are basically the same thing, but different from the First Men?

[AlaskanSandman]

So, let's play the devil's advocate for a moment here: The seed is strong. So House Baratheon's genes - at least those responsible for the balck hair etc. - are very dominant. So, when Orys Baratheon married Argella Durrandon and these genes were originally Durrandon genes. (Usually Orys AND Argella are both depicted with black hair, so we can't really tell.) House Durradon might have had some Andal princesses bring the black hair into their genepool. If that's all true than there would be nothing suspicious about House Baratheon and House Hoare having black hair, right?
To get that straight: You argue that Andals, Valyrians and Ironborn are basically the same thing, but different from the First Men?

To your last question, kinda. They both link back to Valyria, or Valyria to them. 

First men seem to have had dragons. While the Andals seem to have had Dragonsteel and came and killed the dragons. 

Alot of the Ironborn links actually seem to hint at others. Take Balon Blackskin for instance or the accounts of the Ironborn being black of heart and having weapons that drank the souls of their enemies. Balon had black skin that axes shattered against and swords couldn't harm.

First men seem to be of Fire while the Andals and Iron born with ties to the Sea are on the side of Ice. Two sides of the same coin? Seperated but needed to be united? idk. 

Agreed with the Baratheons. Further look at the legend of Duran. 7 stroms, 7 castles, 7 andal invasions repelled "allegedly" plus round towers. Add on top of that Tarth and the Legend of Galladon of Morne and you have even more ties.

A thing to note is that House Corbray of the Vale has 3 ravens holding 3 hearts. This makes me think of Bloodraven of course. House Hoare who i mention is tied to House GreyIron has a raven on it's sigil which is said due to them conquering the Citidel. Which would put them in direct controll of the Ravens. Linking them to Bloodraven and the God's Eye conspiracy.

Further, if you look at my banner you can see a link between Garth the Green, the First King, The Merling King, and the Grey King (through House GreyIron's sigil.).

[AlaskanSandman]

One thing ringing in my head is that dragons are "Fire made flesh"...... so are the Others "Water made flesh"? 

The struggle of fire and ice i have long saw as a struggle of Land vs Water. Fire/Volcanoes make land, robbing the Fisher Queens of their realm. So the Empire of the Dawn was Fire with dragons, while the Realm of the Fisher Queens was the side of Ice  and water. Azor Ahai/Huzor Amai being the first union of fire and ice maybe. His descendants split into many factions (much as realm humans did) to become distinct cultures such as the Andals, and the Rhoynar who trace back to the Cymmeri. Not only did many cultures split, but so did their beliefs. 

Trying to puzzle out the Dawn Age events and what is really going on is fun but challenging.

[AlaskanSandman]

Maybe that's part of it. 3 siblings. 2 brothers, one sister. One brother is the Rock king/Land/Fire, while the other is the Salt King/Water/Ice, both mating with their sister producing different men and both fighting over her love, Sea god vs Storm god. ??? Maybe these 3 are the children of Garth? Idk, some quick random thoughts.

[FreyPiesForSkagos]

One thing ringing in my head is that dragons are "Fire made flesh"...... so are the Others "Water made flesh"? 

The struggle of fire and ice i have long saw as a struggle of Land vs Water. Fire/Volcanoes make land, robbing the Fisher Queens of their realm. So the Empire of the Dawn was Fire with dragons, while the Realm of the Fisher Queens was the side of Ice  and water. Azor Ahai/Huzor Amai being the first union of fire and ice maybe. His descendants split into many factions (much as realm humans did) to become distinct cultures such as the Andals, and the Rhoynar who trace back to the Cymmeri. Not only did many cultures split, but so did their beliefs. 

Trying to puzzle out the Dawn Age events and what is really going on is fun but challenging.

That's actually something I have been pondeing for a long time. I there some power of water? Or are water and ice one? I am still not sure.

[AlaskanSandman]

That's actually something I have been pondeing for a long time. I there some power of water? Or are water and ice one? I am still not sure.

Im more and more leaning towards that they are one. Ice and water magic are the same, i think.

[cutuphalfdead]

My idea here is that Cregan wanted to marry a Targ princess after the Dance of the Dragons, when all was over and the dragons were safe, but the new head of House Targaryen was the Dragonbane, a boy who hated dragons. The Pact was now devoid of its purpose and therefore the marriage plans were off, too.

Sure, but this story is all about fulfilling old promises. Lyanna's promise to Ned, Manderly honoring his pledge of loyalty to the Starks, the Prince that was Promised, etc, etc, etc. And the Dance with Dragons is important to understanding current Westerosi events, so it wouldn't surprise me at all if the unfulfilled promise from this pact gets fulfilled in the current story.

[FreyPiesForSkagos]

 

Sure, but this story is all about fulfilling old promises. Lyanna's promise to Ned, Manderly honoring his pledge of loyalty to the Starks, the Prince that was Promised, etc, etc, etc. And the Dance with Dragons is important to understanding current Westerosi events, so it wouldn't surprise me at all if the unfulfilled promise from this pact gets fulfilled in the current story.

Yeah, I didn't mean to say that there will not be fulfillment after all.

[FreyPiesForSkagos]

Im more and more leaning towards that they are one. Ice and water magic are the same, i think.

What do you make of the sea dragons? Are they ice or fire than?

[cutuphalfdead]

Yeah, I didn't mean to say that there will not be fulfillment after all.

We're discussing, not arguing. Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference on the Internet.

[AlaskanSandman]

What do you make of the sea dragons? Are they ice or fire than?

Skeptical but hopeful. Idk. Theres the account that the ribs are too small to feed on leviathan and kraken supposedly. Plus theres the accounts of Weirwood seeming like bone. If im not mistaken there are 44 of Nagga's ribs along with 44 Islands in the Iron Isles. Hugor was promised lands and supposedly had 44 sons. So ive wondered about this being an ancient weirwood grove that numbered 44 while highhearts numbers 31. The main grouping of Islands numbers 31 also. So though i really would love to see a Sea Dragon in the story, some of the evidence makes me question it. That and it's the only sea dragon known. 

 The Grey Kings legend speaks of him slaying Ygg, a great weirwood that fed on human flesh and making of it the first long ship. Since the Andal links to the Ironborn that ive found, this leads me to think that Ygg was in Essos, and that they just continued their tree hacking tradition as they went along. 

Id really like to be wrong on this one as again id love to see it in the story. That and an ice dragon. Right now im just hoping for the ice dragon at least. I am one of those people that think the Ice Dragon story does connect and i can roughly date it by the Green and Black dragons the Armies flew. Note that the ones that flew the green dragons wore green. While the ones that rode black dragons, wore black and orange. This make me think one army is on the side of Garth the Green, while the other army is either Valyria/Asshai/ or the Empire of the Dawn. Either way this was before the long night.

[FreyPiesForSkagos]

Skeptical but hopeful. Idk. Theres the account that the ribs are too small to feed on leviathan and kraken supposedly. Plus theres the accounts of Weirwood seeming like bone. If im not mistaken there are 44 of Nagga's ribs along with 44 Islands in the Iron Isles. Hugor was promised lands and supposedly had 44 sons. So ive wondered about this being an ancient weirwood grove that numbered 44 while highhearts numbers 31. The main grouping of Islands numbers 31 also. So though i really would love to see a Sea Dragon in the story, some of the evidence makes me question it. That and it's the only sea dragon known. 

 The Grey Kings legend speaks of him slaying Ygg, a great weirwood that fed on human flesh and making of it the first long ship. Since the Andal links to the Ironborn that ive found, this leads me to think that Ygg was in Essos, and that they just continued their tree hacking tradition as they went along. 

Id really like to be wrong on this one as again id love to see it in the story. That and an ice dragon. Right now im just hoping for the ice dragon at least. I am one of those people that think the Ice Dragon story does connect and i can roughly date it by the Green and Black dragons the Armies flew. Note that the ones that flew the green dragons wore green. While the ones that rode black dragons, wore black and orange. This make me think one army is on the side of Garth the Green, while the other army is either Valyria/Asshai/ or the Empire of the Dawn. Either way this was before the long night.

Hm, I actually buy the existence of sea dragons.

[FreyPiesForSkagos]

Okay, so I guess, I will make an attempt to get this thread back on topic. While everything written here was really very interesting, I think, we - and that definitely includes myself - have strayed pretty far from the topic. I will narrow it down to a couple of questions.

1) Is Mushroom telling the truth about there being dragon eggs in Winterfell during the Dance of the Dragons? (And why do or don't you believe him?)

 

2) What was the main purpose of the Pact of Ice and Fire? (Winning the war? Saving dragons for another day, probably the war for the dawn?)

 

3) Why did Cregan Stark never marry a Targaryen?

 

4) Why did Addam Velaryon consult the Green Men?

Here are my own thoughts on the topic once more: http://freypiesforskagos.blogspot.de/2015/11/red-black-green-and-green-or-from-ice.html

[Lord Varys]

1. We don't know. I think it may be possible, especially if it should turn out that George thinks Jon Snow - or any other Targaryen-blooded person in the North (Stannis, Shireen) - needs a dragon much sooner than Dany and her gang can realistically reach Westeros and the Wall. If Vermax laid any eggs then Jace may have decided to interpret this whole thing as a divine sign that Cregan would indeed marry a Targaryen girl, leaving the eggs there so that one day their children might become dragonriders, too.

2. The Pact of Ice and Fire is nothing but a fancy name for the pact between House Stark and the Blacks brokered by Jacaerys Velaryon and Cregan Stark. Its purpose was that the Starks fight for Rhaenyra during the Dance of the Dragons (which they eventually did).

3. Because he either chose to spurn his Targaryen bride in favor of Alysanne Blackwood with whom he fell in love with after they met or because events played out in a way that his Targaryen bride (possibly Rhaena Targaryen) was already married or betrothed to Corwyn Corbray). The Starks were not exactly racing to the aid of Rhaenyra, and she may have decided to make other plans for her stepdaughters in the wake of Jace's death. I'd favor the former idea considering that Cregan could have claimed his Targaryen bride during his short term as Hand. He seems to have ruled supreme in KL during that short time. And at least Baela Targaryen most likely wasn't yet married at this time.

4. If he truly did such a thing, I've no idea why. If it had anything to do with the grand scale of things it obviously led to nothing important since Addam died shortly thereafter during the Second Battle of Tumbleton - a battle he most likely wouldn't have fought in if he had more pressing matters to think about (like saving the world).

[FreyPiesForSkagos]

 

4. If he truly did such a thing, I've no idea why. If it had anything to do with the grand scale of things it obviously led to nothing important since Addam died shortly thereafter during the Second Battle of Tumbleton - a battle he most likely wouldn't have fought in if he had more pressing matters to think about (like saving the world).

I will the cite The Princess and the Queen here:

"The dragon was Seasmoke, his rider Ser Addam Velaryon, determined to prove that not all bastards need be turncloaks. How better to do that than by retaking Tumbleton from the Two Betrayers, whose treason had stained him? Singers say Ser Addam had flown from King’s Landing to the Gods Eye, where he landed on the sacred Isle of Faces and took counsel with the Green Men. The scholar must confine himself to known fact, and what we know is that Ser Addam flew far and fast, descending on castles great and small whose lords were loyal to the queen, to piece together an army."

Doesn't this sound like an Old-Gods-related and magic-related connection the maester would rather deny for quite dubious reasons? Do you think that is simply made up? I don't think that George would put that in there for no reason. I mean, what do you think is going on with the Green Men? Nothing?

[AlaskanSandman]

Okay, so I guess, I will make an attempt to get this thread back on topic. While everything written here was really very interesting, I think, we - and that definitely includes myself - have strayed pretty far from the topic. I will narrow it down to a couple of questions.

1) Is Mushroom telling the truth about there being dragon eggs in Winterfell during the Dance of the Dragons? (And why do or don't you believe him?)

 

2) What was the main purpose of the Pact of Ice and Fire? (Winning the war? Saving dragons for another day, probably the war for the dawn?)

 

3) Why did Cregan Stark never marry a Targaryen?

 

4) Why did Addam Velaryon consult the Green Men?

Here are my own thoughts on the topic once more: http://freypiesforskagos.blogspot.de/2015/11/red-black-green-and-green-or-from-ice.html

1. I say yes. Martin has stated that as the other pov's during the dance are biased, Mushroom is his way of getting out other information the others may be hiding.

2. Probably simply a pact between Targaryen's (Fire) and the Starks (Ice) to win the dance. Though the promised reward of this pact could possibly lead to the fullfillment of the Union of Ice and Fire needed for the Battle of the Dawn. Which people keep trying to achieve, or just achieve a prophesied hero. Though every one attempting to do this seems to not know for sure when the hero's time is actually needed, or from what exact union fullfills this. 

3. Hmmm, hard to fully explain. I expect that the Velaryon's really didn't mean to honor this. This delves into my deeper theory, sorry  House Velaryon made a secret pact with the Merling King in exchange for a driftwood crown. The Merling King as ive said before i believe to be Garth the Green. Again, look at my banner. It literally gives you a visual. (This also answers question 4). 

Now, the union with Cregan and Blackwood led to four daughters, none of which seem to tie into the main Stark line. I suspect that these are the characters of Martins future book the she wolves of winterfell. Or something like that, cant remember the title.

4. To consult the might great Garth the Green's order, the Merling King etc to seek council in how to proceed. In what ever that may exactly be. 

[AlaskanSandman]

I will the cite The Princess and the Queen here:

"The dragon was Seasmoke, his rider Ser Addam Velaryon, determined to prove that not all bastards need be turncloaks. How better to do that than by retaking Tumbleton from the Two Betrayers, whose treason had stained him? Singers say Ser Addam had flown from King’s Landing to the Gods Eye, where he landed on the sacred Isle of Faces and took counsel with the Green Men. The scholar must confine himself to known fact, and what we know is that Ser Addam flew far and fast, descending on castles great and small whose lords were loyal to the queen, to piece together an army."

Doesn't this sound like an Old-Gods-related and magic-related connection the maester would rather deny for quite dubious reasons? Do you think that is simply made up? I don't think that George would put that in there for no reason. I mean, what do you think is going on with the Green Men? Nothing?

Again, there is a tie between the Ironborn's House Hoare who had control over the Citidel and their ravens. Ironborn connect to the Andals, such as House Corbray who's sigil is 3 crows holding 3 hearts. The Citidel has proven that they are against dragons and killed them off, and likely did during the Age of Heroes along with the Faith. Who doesn't like dragons and fire? Ice and the Others. The Citidel, the Ironborn, the Andals/Faith of  the Seven are all on the side of Ice against the Targaryens i believe. 

Seems off topic kinda but really it relates.