Have the Dothraki visited Asabhad?

[Drople]

The far eastern areas of the known world fascinate me. TWoIaF has this to say about the Dothraki's attempts to expand in that direction:

The Dothraki have oft attempted to extend their power eastward as well, but there they have found the Bone Mountains to be an almost insurmountable obstacle...Only three passes exist large enough to bring an army through, and athwart those stand the mighty fortress cities Bayasabhad, Samyriana, and Kayakayanaya...Many a khal has died beneath their walls, and still those walls stand inviolate.

But the maps show another road, connecting Qarth to a city called Asabhad via a route along the coast, south of the mountains. TWoIaF (the book) says nothing about Asabhad, but the mobile app does say a little, describing the city as "A large trade city at the western boundary of Yi Ti, the starting point for many caravans seeking to cross the Mountains of Morn." If the road to Qarth is large enough for a caravan, shouldn't it be large enough for a khalasar?

Maybe the Dothraki have been there, and (speculating wildly) that's when they got close enough to the Shadowlands to pick up some religious statues from the area:

Beyond the horse gate, plundered gods and stolen heroes loomed to either side of them...Some of the statues were so lovely they took [Dany's] breath away, others so misshapen and terrible that Dany could scarcely bear to look at them. Those, Ser Jorah said, had likely come from the Shadow Lands beyond Asshai.

 

[TheSovereignGrave]

From what maps I can find it looks like the Dothraki would have to traverse the Red Waste to get there. I can't see them actually managing to get a sizable Khalasar to Asabhad without starving.

[Drople]

Good point. Xaro Xhoan Daxos agrees. At one point he tells Dany, "To reach Qarth, the horselords must needs drive their captives across the red waste. Hundreds would die, if not thousands … and many horses too, which is why no khal will risk it."

[Blackfyre Bastard]

It is stated in TWoIaF that the ancestors of the Dothraki originally dwelt east of the Bones, so maybe they brought those statues when they crossed the mountains towards the west?

[TheSovereignGrave]

Though now one has to wonder how their ancestors crossed the Bone Mountains before.

[Falcon2908]

In the past perhaps the Red Waste was not what it is now. I think it is mentioned somewhere in the books.

It could have been some forest/grassland teeming with life. So it must have been easy for the Dothraki to pass through it and raid the East.

 

[Whitering]

In the past perhaps the Red Waste was not what it is now. I think it is mentioned somewhere in the books.

It could have been some forest/grassland teeming with life. So it must have been easy for the Dothraki to pass through it and raid the East.

 

It doesn't even take that long, you only have to go back to 100 AD or so to see North Africa as the verdant bread basket of the Med, much of what later became Tunisia and Tripoli was green. Fast forward 1000 years or so and at lot of that area of the world was losing its fertility and it wasn't so much over farming, but global warming, I wonder what the republicans back then had to say about it.

[aryagonnakill#2]

It doesn't even take that long, you only have to go back to 100 AD or so to see North Africa as the verdant bread basket of the Med, much of what later became Tunisia and Tripoli was green. Fast forward 1000 years or so and at lot of that area of the world was losing its fertility and it wasn't so much over farming, but global warming, I wonder what the republicans back then had to say about it.

Lol.  The doom would have changed the climate of regions far and wide by effecting global weather patterns.  It could only be 300 years old.

[Whitering]

Lol.  The doom would have changed the climate of regions far and wide by effecting global weather patterns.  It could only be 300 years old.

Except, we have nothing to indicate that anything major happened from the World Book or any other source, which is a bit odd, I grant you. I was not accounting for the Doom, because of that. So, yes, maybe it had an effect not accounted by Maesters but we haven't seen anyone say, or there's been a growing amount of rain in x region since the Doom.

[Maester of Valyria]

In the past perhaps the Red Waste was not what it is now. I think it is mentioned somewhere in the books.

It could have been some forest/grassland teeming with life. So it must have been easy for the Dothraki to pass through it and raid the East.

 

That's right: the region we now call the Red Waste used to be not much different from any other area of Central Essos. However, when the Qaathi arrived:

What can be said is that the Qaathi arose in the grasslands and established towns there, coming into contact and occasional conflict with the Sarnori. They would oft have the worse of these wars, and so began to drift farther south, creating new city-states. One such, Qarth, was founded on the coast of the Summer Sea. Yet the lands in the south of Essos proved more inhospitable than those the Qaathi had vacated, turning to desert even as they established their foothold there. The Qaathi people were already well on their way to collapse when the Doom struck...

This would appear to indicate that the region became desert through the actions of the Qaathi people, perhaps by tampering with magic (as it seems implausible, though not impossible, for a people with medieval technology to desertificate an area so quickly). However, the above quote shows that the Doom was not responsible for the desertification, as the process had been ongoing since before the cataclysm occured. It is possible that the region was drying out naturally (as seems to be the case with much of the Far East, leading to some fascinating theories), and that humans only accelerated this process.

However, khalasars have braved the Red Waste before:

In the south, other khals led their hordes into the Red Waste, destroying the Qaathi towns and cities that once dotted that desert, until only the great city of Qarth remained, protected by its towering triple wall.

I believe this may be the reason why there are so many ruins in the REd Waste, including some warded by skulls.

[Falcon2908]

 

I believe this may be the reason why there are so many ruins in the REd Waste, including some warded by skulls.

Yeah whats the deal with these skulls? Dany spots them in Vaes Tolorro. The skull seems to be in good condition and not turned into dust. So I guess a battle had taken place here not too recently, say ~100 years ago

[Maester of Valyria]

Yeah whats the deal with these skulls? Dany spots them in Vaes Tolorro. The skull seems to be in good condition and not turned into dust. So I guess a battle had taken place here not too recently, say ~100 years ago

I imagine the skulls were put there by the Dothraki or other invaders, who wanted to disgrace their fallen enemies (or something). The constant dryness in the Red Waste will account for the skulls' good conditions, and remember that the Dothraki only migrated to this area of Essos shortly after the Doom, so the skulls can't be much older than 400 years anyway.

[Falcon2908]

and remember that the Dothraki only migrated to this area of Essos shortly after the Doom, so the skulls can't be much older than 400 years anyway.

Why would the Dothraki migrate to the least desirable piece of real estate? It's a desert, no rivers/greenery. Them and their horses would die there without any provisions.

I imagine that the Dothraki did indeed battle in this region but they did not migrate here after the doom. They lived there hundreds of years earlier when the Red Waste was a grassland.

When the Red Waste began to be formed, the Dothraki migrated out of the area.

Years later, the Qa'athi, after losing battle after battle, were pushed to the Red Waste where they lived in their desert cities such as Vaes Tolorro.

The Dothraki must have heard about these cities, so some ambitious Khals must have sacked the desert settlements such as Vaes Tolorro (whatever it's name was before it was given the Dothraki name), etc,  and lingered there shortly before returning to the Dothraki sea. 

They didn't remain there long because it was an arid desert and they only had their own provisions and provisions sacked from the cities.

Gradually, all the Qa'athi cities were gone except for Qarth.

[Maester of Valyria]

Why would the Dothraki migrate to the least desirable piece of real estate? It's a desert, no rivers/greenery. Them and their horses would die there without any provisions.

I imagine that the Dothraki did indeed battle in this region but they did not migrate here after the doom. They lived there hundreds of years earlier when the Red Waste was a grassland.

When the Red Waste began to be formed, the Dothraki migrated out of the area.

Years later, the Qa'athi, after losing battle after battle, were pushed to the Red Waste where they lived in their desert cities such as Vaes Tolorro.

The Dothraki must have heard about these cities, so some ambitious Khals must have sacked the desert settlements such as Vaes Tolorro (whatever it's name was before it was given the Dothraki name), etc,  and lingered there shortly before returning to the Dothraki sea. 

They didn't remain there long because it was an arid desert and they only had their own provisions and provisions sacked from the cities.

Gradually, all the Qa'athi cities were gone except for Qarth.

Apologies, I should have been more specific. When I said 'this area of Essos' I meant the part of Essos west of the Bones, ie the grasslands region, NOT the Red Waste. They came into the Red Waste temporarily, with the intention of crushiing the Qaathi.

The Dothraki originate from east of the Bones, where they presumably were a people similar to the Jogos Nhai. They took advantage of the chaos left by Valyria's collapse to sweep west and colonise.

Perhaps the Dothraki did live in the Red Waste for a while in the early years after their initial migration, but it can't have been for very long.

The Qaathi were pushed into the region that would become the Red Waste by warring with Sarnor, not the Dothraki, and htis took place long before the Doom.

I believe we are in agreement about about the Dothraki sweeping into the Waste with the intention of sacking the desert cities.

Qarth was able to withstand the Dothraki assault thanks to its 'towering triple walls', and probably its access to the sea.

[TheSovereignGrave]

Apologies, I should have been more specific. When I said 'this area of Essos' I meant the part of Essos west of the Bones, ie the grasslands region, NOT the Red Waste. They came into the Red Waste temporarily, with the intention of crushiing the Qaathi.

The Dothraki originate from east of the Bones, where they presumably were a people similar to the Jogos Nhai. They took advantage of the chaos left by Valyria's collapse to sweep west and colonise.

Perhaps the Dothraki did live in the Red Waste for a while in the early years after their initial migration, but it can't have been for very long.

The Qaathi were pushed into the region that would become the Red Waste by warring with Sarnor, not the Dothraki, and htis took place long before the Doom.

I believe we are in agreement about about the Dothraki sweeping into the Waste with the intention of sacking the desert cities.

Qarth was able to withstand the Dothraki assault thanks to its 'towering triple walls', and probably its access to the sea.

The Dothraki lived west of the Bones before the Doom. They were just relegated to the Eastern portions of what is now the Dothraki Sea at that time. The Worldbook says that the Sarnori had "been no more than a nuisance for centuries" and there's no mention of them crossing the Bones at the time. And then you have to consider the difficulties in crossing the Bones and the fact that the only Sarnori cities are quite a ways west of the Bones.

[Falcon2908]

The Dothraki lived west of the Bones before the Doom. They were just relegated to the Eastern portions of what is now the Dothraki Sea at that time. The Worldbook says that the Sarnori had "been no more than a nuisance for centuries" and there's no mention of them crossing the Bones at the time. And then you have to consider the difficulties in crossing the Bones and the fact that the only Sarnori cities are quite a ways west of the Bones.

The Dothraki are in many ways similar to the Jogos Nhai. It is also mentioned in the world book that after the Long Night, every tribe of humans of the GEoTD were separated and went their own way. Went their own way meaning that some of the Jogos Nhai went west of the Bones. Intermixing and due to influence of different religions, peoples, cultures, etc changed the Jogos Nhai into the Dothraki.

 

Apologies, I should have been more specific. When I said 'this area of Essos' I meant the part of Essos west of the Bones, ie the grasslands region, NOT the Red Waste. They came into the Red Waste temporarily, with the intention of crushiing the Qaathi.

The Dothraki originate from east of the Bones, where they presumably were a people similar to the Jogos Nhai. They took advantage of the chaos left by Valyria's collapse to sweep west and colonise.

Perhaps the Dothraki did live in the Red Waste for a while in the early years after their initial migration, but it can't have been for very long.

The Qaathi were pushed into the region that would become the Red Waste by warring with Sarnor, not the Dothraki, and htis took place long before the Doom.

I believe we are in agreement about about the Dothraki sweeping into the Waste with the intention of sacking the desert cities.

Qarth was able to withstand the Dothraki assault thanks to its 'towering triple walls', and probably its access to the sea.

Yup I agree with all of that!

[TheSovereignGrave]

The Dothraki are in many ways similar to the Jogos Nhai. It is also mentioned in the world book that after the Long Night, every tribe of humans of the GEoTD were separated and went their own way. Went their own way meaning that some of the Jogos Nhai went west of the Bones. Intermixing and due to influence of different religions, peoples, cultures, etc changed the Jogos Nhai into the Dothraki.

I'm not saying that the Dothraki didn't cross the Bones. We're outright told they did. But the evidence points to that being a long time before the Doom.

[Maester of Valyria]

I'm not saying that the Dothraki didn't cross the Bones. We're outright told they did. But the evidence points to that being a long time before the Doom.

The Dothraki actually came west of the Bones shortly after the Doom:

...the Dothraki are a young race, and it was only since the Doom destroyed Valyria that their khalasars came to dominate these lands, sweeping out of the east with fire and steel to conquer and destroy the ancient cities that once thrived here and carrying off their peoples into bondage.

[TheSovereignGrave]

The Dothraki actually came west of the Bones shortly after the Doom:

...the Dothraki are a young race, and it was only since the Doom destroyed Valyria that their khalasars came to dominate these lands, sweeping out of the east with fire and steel to conquer and destroy the ancient cities that once thrived here and carrying off their peoples into bondage.

"The east" does not necessarily mean "east of the Bones". There's a lot of wide open plains and steppes in between Sarnor and the Bones. They were likely living there; else they couldn't have been a nuisance to the Sarnori for centuries before the Doom.

[Maester of Valyria]

"The east" does not necessarily mean "east of the Bones". There's a lot of wide open plains and steppes in between Sarnor and the Bones. They were likely living there; else they couldn't have been a nuisance to the Sarnori for centuries before the Doom.

The ancestors of the Dothraki and the other horse peoples of the grasslands knew better, for some remembered crossing those mountains from the lands that lay beyond.

Also, from the Wiki:

The ancestors of the Dothraki came from the lands beyond the Bone Mountains in the Further East, leaving behind the bones that give the Bone Mountains their name.