Jessica Jones [AKA This Thread Has Spoilers]

[Martini Sigil]

Just finished...  Loved every minute of it...  I googled IGH in the Marvel universe... apparently its a creation for the show.... although Simpson is most probably going to become Nuke

[sifth]

Am I the only one who feels the part where Jessica needed a defense attorney for the girl in episode 2, was the perfect place for a Matt Murdock cameo.

 

I'm only on episode 4, but I'm enjoying things.

[alguien]

Am I the only one who feels the part where Jessica needed a defense attorney for the girl in episode 2, was the perfect place for a Matt Murdock cameo.

 

I'm only on episode 4, but I'm enjoying things.

I kept waiting for a Murdock cameo in exactly that capacity! As I recall, it kinda happened in the comics. (where JJ had a giant crush on Matt Murdock)

[Kalbear]

I think that beat Sense8 as my favorite Netflix show, and definitely the best superhero tale in a really long time - in any medium. 

One thing I really liked is that it had so many gotcha moments. Jeri almost capitulating and talking with Kilgrave - and then not - was one of those. They had set her up to do it, then they didn't follow through, and that was worth it. Simpson blowing away Clemons was another one I just didn't see coming at all. Jessica's turning the tables on Kilgrave after they spent so much time working on him as the hero was awesome.

Very well done, using subversion of tropes. 

Also appreciated Kilgrave telling people not to blink for 12 hours. 

And yeah, the two TV shows so far have knocked it out of the park with compelling, understandable, and completely horrible villains. Kilgrave is the best villain Marvel has had yet. Smart, interesting, relatable, and absolutely horrifying. Jessica Jones works partially because it's about the many different kinds of abuse and surviving that abuse - but also because it is very much a horror story. It doesn't go for being a superhero story, and Jones' having zero powers (or really, everyone save Kilgrave) would have been just as compelling. 

Also, loved the Cage and Jones lovers angle. I love how they both looked when they realized that they don't have to hold back and can be themselves without really thinking about it. That was awesome. 

[Bastard of Boston]

Another win for Marvel. As with Daredevil, you can nitpick over some pacing issues. I could see both series being ten episodes, but it got the job done. Too much setup is better than no setup at all, and one thing the movies always struggle with is not having enough time to set up and pay off things. This directly translates to the villains, as they frequently get shortchanged. Not the case with either Fisk or Purple Man.

 

Purple Man was awesome and handled brilliantly. He needed to be portrayed as completely narcissistic, with no huge goal. Clearly, someone with his powers and in their right mind would plot world domination. You'd question why he thinks so small. But, ultimately, Purple Man was so wrapped up in his own life and trivial needs, that a goal bigger than getting the girl was beyond him. His mental disorder made his character and motivations completely understandable. Tennant was great and charismatic.

 

The stuff with Nuke was somewhat weird. Felt more like they were setting things up for latter than introducing anything truly important to the arc.

 

For me, the star of this show was the sisterhood between Jessica and Trish -- Trish totally took the Carol Danvers/Ms. Marvel role from the comics. I loved all of the Patsy/Hellcat Easter eggs. I can completely see Trish putting on a costume later on, especially because she was so determined to get Jessica to wear one.

 

I love Rosario Dawson as the link between all the shows. She has this amazing presence, like when you see her, you know everything will be okay. I thought all the supplemental characters -- the junkie, the incestuous banana bread twins, Trinity lawyer, etc. -- were awesome. I've seen the crazy neighbor get a lot of shit online, but I think her character could be necessary comic relief on this show going forward. You kind of need the batshit neighbor in the midst of all the moodiness.

 

And, Luke Cage. Nuff said. Cannot wait to see more in his series.

[Underfoot]

I thought this show was awesome, and a lot better than Daredevil, which I wasn't able to finish (I will try it again, but god it draaagged). I hated the twins at first, but they really grew on me later. I was almost bummed to see Ruben die, hah. The only part that I really didn't like was Simpson -- he just felt a little overdone. 

The Trish/Jessica relationship was great, and I was anticipating a reveal that there is more between them than just friendship/sisterhood. Still holding out hope  I loved Hogarth, and kept expecting her to turn bad and was always pleasantly surprised when she stayed good, even a little cold. The death by 1000 cuts scene was brutal. I also loved Jessica and never felt that her character flaws were over the top. 

Can't wait to see what they do with the next season! 

 

[RumHam]

 I really liked it but I feel like they forgot to provide closure for one of the most important storylines. Did that poor man get his jacket back? I guess we'll never know.

Am I the only one who feels the part where Jessica needed a defense attorney for the girl in episode 2, was the perfect place for a Matt Murdock cameo.

 

I'm only on episode 4, but I'm enjoying things.

I thought the same thing. They've said that because the filming of this and Daredevil season two overlapped scheduling cameos was too difficult. I was disappointed at first but now I think it's better this way. Having 3/4 of the Defenders working together already probably would have been premature, even if Murdoch wasn't in costume beating people.

Netflix decided to start playing Daredevil when this was over and I let it go for a bit. One of the cops was on both shows and I didn't notice until then.

Edit: BTW does anyone have a link to a list of all the little easter eggs? When they were interviewing people who claimed to have met Killgrave I thought maybe one or two of those crazy stories were in-jokes or hints of things to come. 

[alguien]

I was thinking it over today, and for me, my favorite moment in the series, when I actually stood up and cheered, is when David Tennant shouts "Let go of me, Jessica!" and... nothing happens. 

From the earlier flashbacks, where Jessica wandered from him after killing Luke's wife, I had suspected she might prove resistant to his powers, but that moment proved it, and the terror and frustration on Kilgrave's face sold it. It was a beautiful payoff. 

Still, I wasn't completely sure until they confirmed via replay in the next episode. And Krysten Ritter's small smile, despite all of the horrible shit that had just gone down, realizing she'd never be overpowered by that creep again, was just absolutely perfect. 

[denstorebog]

Mostly agree with everything that's been said. Cut the twins, get another actor to play Nuke, etc. Great series for the first two thirds. In general, episode 10 to 13 were pretty weak, which is a shame. I kept waiting for the twin sister to gain some sort of purpose, to somehow get ahold of Killgrave's powers or some shit like that (now that would have been frightening in its own way), but nothing came of her.

Jessica and Trish's plan at the church in the end was rubbish. They send in Trish with headphones just so JJ can sneak around Killgrave? Boy will they look stupid when Killgrave orders those 10 policemen to shoot Trish then and there. And in the end it accomplished nothing - Killgrave just ran off, and Trish and JJ met up outside.

[AndrewJ]

Really enjoyed it. But my main take-away, as others have touched on, is how badly Jessica fucked everything up.

She had so many opportunities to kill Kilgrave - and Simpson imploring her to do exactly that. Her response was always "we need him alive to prove Hope is innocent" with a side of "death is too easy for him, he has to suffer."

So... how did that work out for you, Jessie? You just ended up killing him anyway - only Hope died and many others suffered in the meantime.

[briantw]

Yeah.  I get why Jessica wanted to save Hope, but damn...how many people died because of that little soul-saving mission?

[mormont]

Can't agree on this idea that the twins were somehow not a valuable part of the show. As has already been noted, I think, there's a theme of controlling (not always abusive) relationships: as well as the obvious (Kilgrave and Jessica) there's Trish and her mother, Hogarth and Pam, Trish and Simpson, etc. Robyn and Reuben are one aspect of that - and also the only one where we get to see that principally from the POV of the one in control, not the one being controlled.

Robyn is a pretty annoying person and a bad caregiver to her brother. She's selfish about it, and she uses her control over Reuben as an emotional crutch for her own feelings of inadequacy. We only come to understand that last bit through her conversations with Malcolm after Reuben's death. it gives an insight into the dynamics of this type of relationship that you don't get from the others.

So for me, they're valuable characters. And I also enjoyed that the series had less of a tight focus on the central character - not everything revolved around Jessica in the way it did with Matt in DD. She was still the central focus, but I felt there were better arcs and more independent side characters in JJ, Robyn's being one of those. It gives a sense of a wider world that was not there in DD.

I'm slightly puzzled by the Netflix shows' reluctance to name names (re: references to 'the flag waver' and 'the green guy'). is this done for reasons of atmosphere, verisimilitude, or is it some complicated rights issue?

[Kyoshi]

Can't agree on this idea that the twins were somehow not a valuable part of the show. As has already been noted, I think, there's a theme of controlling (not always abusive) relationships: as well as the obvious (Kilgrave and Jessica) there's Trish and her mother, Hogarth and Pam, Trish and Simpson, etc. Robyn and Reuben are one aspect of that - and also the only one where we get to see that principally from the POV of the one in control, not the one being controlled.

Robyn is a pretty annoying person and a bad caregiver to her brother. She's selfish about it, and she uses her control over Reuben as an emotional crutch for her own feelings of inadequacy. We only come to understand that last bit through her conversations with Malcolm after Reuben's death. it gives an insight into the dynamics of this type of relationship that you don't get from the others.

So for me, they're valuable characters. And I also enjoyed that the series had less of a tight focus on the central character - not everything revolved around Jessica in the way it did with Matt in DD. She was still the central focus, but I felt there were better arcs and more independent side characters in JJ, Robyn's being one of those. It gives a sense of a wider world that was not there in DD.

I'm slightly puzzled by the Netflix shows' reluctance to name names (re: references to 'the flag waver' and 'the green guy'). is this done for reasons of atmosphere, verisimilitude, or is it some complicated rights issue?

Completely agree.

[Bastard of Boston]

I can't agree with everyone saying Jessica should've taken the many changes she had to kill Purple Man. We're talking about a tragic tale where a woman tries to be the hero and fails. I think that's the point of the show. Jessica wanted to save Hope, like Captain America or Thor would, and couldn't. There was no happy ending to this story, but Jessica wanted there to be. She tried to save as many lives as she could, but she ultimately cost many more their lives. I think it's a vital aspect of what the show is and why it ended with her deleting all the messages of people requesting help.

[briantw]

I can't agree with everyone saying Jessica should've taken the many changes she had to kill Purple Man. We're talking about a tragic tale where a woman tries to be the hero and fails. I think that's the point of the show. Jessica wanted to save Hope, like Captain America or Thor would, and couldn't. There was no happy ending to this story, but Jessica wanted there to be. She tried to save as many lives as she could, but she ultimately cost many more their lives. I think it's a vital aspect of what the show is and why it ended with her deleting all the messages of people requesting help.

I don't think anyone is saying they didn't enjoy the show because of that, as there wouldn't be much of a show if she had just snapped his neck the first chance she got.  

[Mladen]

Can't agree on this idea that the twins were somehow not a valuable part of the show. As has already been noted, I think, there's a theme of controlling (not always abusive) relationships: as well as the obvious (Kilgrave and Jessica) there's Trish and her mother, Hogarth and Pam, Trish and Simpson, etc. Robyn and Reuben are one aspect of that - and also the only one where we get to see that principally from the POV of the one in control, not the one being controlled.

Robyn is a pretty annoying person and a bad caregiver to her brother. She's selfish about it, and she uses her control over Reuben as an emotional crutch for her own feelings of inadequacy. We only come to understand that last bit through her conversations with Malcolm after Reuben's death. it gives an insight into the dynamics of this type of relationship that you don't get from the others.

So for me, they're valuable characters. And I also enjoyed that the series had less of a tight focus on the central character - not everything revolved around Jessica in the way it did with Matt in DD. She was still the central focus, but I felt there were better arcs and more independent side characters in JJ, Robyn's being one of those. It gives a sense of a wider world that was not there in DD.

I'm slightly puzzled by the Netflix shows' reluctance to name names (re: references to 'the flag waver' and 'the green guy'). is this done for reasons of atmosphere, verisimilitude, or is it some complicated rights issue?

Nice perspective. I wasn't that much thrilled with the whole twins thing or the Hogarth's romantic trio, but it does make sense to include them when the major theme is pathological need to control things. In many ways, it is also wonderful how Jessica is representing the loss of that pathological control. Not only through her "immunity" for Killgrave's powers, but also her help when it came to Hope's abusive mother, help she provided for Malcolm, Reuben falling for her. She is sort of "liberator".

I also agree that JJ has wider look on Hell's Kitchen and probably better side-arcs from DD. And overall, it looks more round-up story. This can easily be the mini-series, while DD Season 1 was more like an intro for further story. 

As for names, IDK... The ABC shows have no problems with that. I doubt it is the rights issues given it is the same team working. It would be more like an outside perspective to things. How perhaps regular people would see the superheroes...

[denstorebog]

So, the more I think about the climax scene, the less I actually get it.

There are two possibilities. Either JJ was mind controlled and snapped out of it, or she was faking it from the moment she stopped advancing on Kilgrave.

If it's the first, then there's a problem in the sense that we don't see what makes her break Kilgrave's control - whether it's just sheer force of will, or if it's because he (once again) asks her to do something she won't do. So I don't think that's the case.

But if the idea is that JJ fakes it from the start, then I have no clue why she'd do that. She's right in front of Kilgrave with no one between them to protect him. She can walk straight up to him and finish him off. The only reason she'd have for stopping would be if he could give some final command to someone else that would get them killed - like all the people behind her. But the thing is, JJ has already decided to ignore the people killing each other and go straight for Kilgrave. We saw her make the decision to walk right through them and go for Kilgrave (which is pretty much the decision she should have made from the first episode - get to the cause of the problems rather than go for the distractions). So why would she fake being mind controlled at the point when she is practically right in front of him?

The only other thing I could see her being afraid of is if Kilgrave managed to command Trish to do something before JJ reached him. But as far as JJ is aware, Trish still has the headphones on. Also, Kilgrave doesn't notice Trish until after JJ starts faking it.

So what am I missing? Why does JJ allow Kilgrave to 'stop' her and use Trish to torture her, when it's already been established that she's gonna take out Kilgrave regardless of the people around her?

 

[briantw]

So, the more I think about the climax scene, the less I actually get it.

There are two possibilities. Either JJ was mind controlled and snapped out of it, or she was faking it from the moment she stopped advancing on Kilgrave.

If it's the first, then there's a problem in the sense that we don't see what makes her break Kilgrave's control - whether it's just sheer force of will, or if it's because he (once again) asks her to do something she won't do. So I don't think that's the case.

But if the idea is that JJ fakes it from the start, then I have no clue why she'd do that. She's right in front of Kilgrave with no one between them to protect him. She can walk straight up to him and finish him off. The only reason she'd have for stopping would be if he could give some final command to someone else that would get them killed - like all the people behind her. But the thing is, JJ has already decided to ignore the people killing each other and go straight for Kilgrave. We saw her make the decision to walk right through them and go for Kilgrave (which is pretty much the decision she should have made from the first episode - get to the cause of the problems rather than go for the distractions). So why would she fake being mind controlled at the point when she is practically right in front of him?

The only other thing I could see her being afraid of is if Kilgrave managed to command Trish to do something before JJ reached him. But as far as JJ is aware, Trish still has the headphones on. Also, Kilgrave doesn't notice Trish until after JJ starts faking it.

So what am I missing? Why does JJ allow Kilgrave to 'stop' her and use Trish to torture her, when it's already been established that she's gonna take out Kilgrave regardless of the people around her?

 

 

They explain it during the scene.  She isn't sure if Kilgrave dying will stop the people he's told to kill each other, and he's still far enough away from her during the final scene that he could issue a command before she got to him.  What if, for example, he told Trish to rip her throat out right before Jessica got to him and his death didn't suddenly nullify that command?  Maybe Jess stops her in time.  Maybe she doesn't.  Either way, it's a risk.

The way she did it, she was able to get him to move close enough to her that she could grab him before he could issue any commands.

Obviously with the benefit of hindsight it appears that Kilgrave's death also killed his power over everyone, but the characters couldn't have been sure of that before he died.

[Jon AS]

So, the more I think about the climax scene, the less I actually get it.

There are two possibilities. Either JJ was mind controlled and snapped out of it, or she was faking it from the moment she stopped advancing on Kilgrave.

If it's the first, then there's a problem in the sense that we don't see what makes her break Kilgrave's control - whether it's just sheer force of will, or if it's because he (once again) asks her to do something she won't do. So I don't think that's the case.

But if the idea is that JJ fakes it from the start, then I have no clue why she'd do that. She's right in front of Kilgrave with no one between them to protect him. She can walk straight up to him and finish him off. The only reason she'd have for stopping would be if he could give some final command to someone else that would get them killed - like all the people behind her. But the thing is, JJ has already decided to ignore the people killing each other and go straight for Kilgrave. We saw her make the decision to walk right through them and go for Kilgrave (which is pretty much the decision she should have made from the first episode - get to the cause of the problems rather than go for the distractions). So why would she fake being mind controlled at the point when she is practically right in front of him?

The only other thing I could see her being afraid of is if Kilgrave managed to command Trish to do something before JJ reached him. But as far as JJ is aware, Trish still has the headphones on. Also, Kilgrave doesn't notice Trish until after JJ starts faking it.

So what am I missing? Why does JJ allow Kilgrave to 'stop' her and use Trish to torture her, when it's already been established that she's gonna take out Kilgrave regardless of the people around her?

 

She hasn't decided to ignore the other people. She's decided to pretend to ignore them in order to scare Kilgrave into issuing the stop command. It's kind of a reversal of the dynamic they had when she had him locked up, where she realised that, despite him not being able to compel anyone, he was still in control.

Once that's accomplished she needs to get close to him without him being able to harm another person. And he completely plays into her hands, because she totally has his number at this point.

[The BlackBear]

I liked it. My main issue was Kilgrave was stretched a little thin over 13 episodes, meaning he had to keep having near misses and escapes, it got a little repetitive. Daredevil managed to have subplots that worked along with the main plot, this not so much. The twins thing, really?

Simpson/Nuke interested me, which is a feat given how gimmicky he is in the comics. He's clearly being set up for a Daredevil fight.

Looked up a few easter eggs and one which was really interesting was the weed growing warehouse was one of the same ones firebombed in DD.

And I loved Luke Cage here.