Jessica Jones [AKA This Thread Has Spoilers]

[mormont]

'Rely on the rape card'?

The show doesn't even bring up the word 'rape' until over halfway through and never actually depicts it, either in flashback or in the present. It leaves it to the viewer to imply what happened and it never privileges the rape - it's presented as a part of the abuse, not some special category that is inherently more horrific.

Meanwhile, the notion that the comics version is somehow not 'relying on the rape card' because it's not the protagonist herself who gets raped is, well, let's be kind and say 'absurd'.

I'm sorry, but that's a cheap attempt at criticism that literally could not be more wrong.

[sifth]

^I don't understand the rape card* statement. Maybe I'm just being thick here. But could you please explain.

 

*I'm always among those who criticise writers for using rape to torment female characters because I feel it's just a way for women to be punished for being women. And it's lazy as hell. But like I said, I'm struggling to understand your statement about the rape card here. 

During the whole bit where Jessica is forced to live with Killgrave, she mentions how he raped her. Killgrave replies by saying he did no such thing and that she wanted it. To which Jessica replies that "he made her want it".

This is used as one of the key motivators fueling Jessica's rage against the man.

[Ran]

Kilgrave not raping Jessica in the comic comes from very comic-specific backstory: namely that after decades of getting his butt kicked by every superhero under the sun, his getting a hold of a "pet superhero" leads him to carry out a program of particular cruelty; making her watch, making her beg for it but then not doing it, making her hop up and down and basically everything else was to assuage his own feelings of victimization.

But on the show, and in the MCU, Kilgrave doesn't have the backstory of a D-list villain who serves as a punching bag for a couple dozen heroes. He has no motive to be especially cruel to Jessica when he initially captures her -- she's an extremely special plaything, that's it, no baggage about superheroes beating him up and defeating his plans. There's a revenge component to how he treated Jessica that simply isn't at issue on the show, so it is merely logical and true to the personality of the character that he'd rape her.

[sifth]

Kilgrave not raping Jessica in the comic comes from very comic-specific backstory: namely that after decades of getting his butt kicked by every superhero under the sun, his getting a hold of a "pet superhero" leads him to carry out a program of particular cruelty; making her watch, making her beg for it but then not doing it, making her hop up and down and basically everything else was to assuage his own feelings of victimization.

But on the show, and in the MCU, Kilgrave doesn't have the backstory of a D-list villain who serves as a punching bag for a couple dozen heroes. He has no motive to be especially cruel to Jessica when he initially captures her -- she's an extremely special plaything, that's it, no baggage about superheroes beating him up and defeating his plans. There's a revenge component to how he treated Jessica that simply isn't at issue on the show, so it is merely logical and true to the personality of the character that he'd rape her.

The show could have got around that simply by making him a sadist, who enjoyed torturing people for fun. I mean on the surface I don't have an issue with the rape thing on the show, but the fact that it leads Killgrave to have a crush on Jessica, is where my issue lies. This is very not Killgrave like.

[Red Tiger]

The show could have got around that simply by making him a sadist, who enjoyed torturing people for fun. I mean on the surface I don't have an issue with the rape thing on the show, but the fact that it leads Killgrave to have a crush on Jessica, is where my issue lies. This is very not Killgrave like.

.....Uhm no shit, this is not the comic version of Kilgrave....and it's not supposed to be.

[sifth]

.....Uhm no shit, this is not the comic version of Kilgrave....and it's not supposed to be.

That's sort of the point I was making. I wanted a Killgrave  more loyal to the comic version. I mean what we got wasn't bad, I'm still a huge David Tennant fan. I just feel he could have been so much better.

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

 

Ohh, with a title like "You'll Never See the Purple Man The Same Way Again", I already know I'm going to hate this review. Because as said before he's not a creepy stalker in the comics. The review goes on to compare Ritter to RDJ. I'll admit Ritter is good, but to say she's in that league is just silly. About the only thing I do agree with the Review on is the fact that Luke cage is awesome.

 

I love how the show has to rely on the rape card, because Killgrave making Jessica into his puppet for a year and making her watch him rape women in front of her isn't dark enough apparently, let alone making her beg for it. Granted when you reduce one of Marvels darker villains into a crazy stalker I suppose you have no choice, but to use to the rape card.

I never read the comic, but I feel like that part was a cop out. They could write the type of story where the protagonist was raped in the past, but then turn around say that she wasn't technically raped.

Even Ran's explanation doesn't really explain to me why comic Killgrave wouldn't go there.

[Red Tiger]

I never read the comic, but I feel like that part was a cop out. They could write the type of story where the protagonist was raped in the past, but then turn around say that she was technically raped.

Even Ran's explanation doesn't really explain to me why comic Killgrave wouldn't go there.

In the comics Jessica basically admits that while she wasn't ACTUALLY raped, what Kilgrave did to her was just as bad. So the comics basically agree with you.

As for crazy stalker, it's not like the comic version of Kilgrave was some great magnificent bastard a la Dr. Doom or Magneto, no he was an extrmely petty man who basically used his powers to live an adolescent fantasy. Eat wherever he wants, rape whoever he wanted and killing whoever he wanted.

Yeah the show version is even more childish and pathetic than his comic counterpart, but the comic version of Kilgrave was a petty piece of shit as well. Last year he basically tried to use his powers to force his kids to love him.

And as for him getting fixated on someone, this is actually pretty true to the character, as comic Kilgrave was fixated on the superheroes who beat him despite his powers (which he angrily explained to Jessica)....sorta like how this version was fixated on a superheroine who broke free from his control.

[Dr. Pepper]

Personally, I would have been outraged if the show went the route where Jessica or anyone other than Kilgrave insisted that she wasn't actually or technically raped.  It angers me greatly when shows brush over sexual assault or worse, act like something that is clearly rape was just some little bit of fun.  I respected that it was just easily acknowledged and accepted in the show that Kilgrave is a rapist.  

[Martini Sigil]

'Rely on the rape card'?

The show doesn't even bring up the word 'rape' until over halfway through and never actually depicts it, either in flashback or in the present. It leaves it to the viewer to imply what happened and it never privileges the rape - it's presented as a part of the abuse, not some special category that is inherently more horrific.

Meanwhile, the notion that the comics version is somehow not 'relying on the rape card' because it's not the protagonist herself who gets raped is, well, let's be kind and say 'absurd'.

I'm sorry, but that's a cheap attempt at criticism that literally could not be more wrong.

Bingo

.....Uhm no shit, this is not the comic version of Kilgrave....and it's not supposed to be.

Exactly.,, the two distinctly different mediums will invariably have differences in the story telling... We live in an era where we get to see some great comics adapted to live action movies & TV with amazing quality.... especially when compared to the attempts made in the 80's & 90's....  and people nitpick about the silliest things.

[mormont]

That's sort of the point I was making. I wanted a Killgrave  more loyal to the comic version.

You're not suggesting being loyal to the comics version of the character, though. In fact, you're suggesting aping a particular detail of the events of the comic (which is not at all the same thing) and making changes to the comics character's motives, just to crowbar in that particular detail, which is ultimately of very little importance. That's not being loyal to the comics version: it's just poor storytelling.

[Kalbear]

Also, I don't want to have seen a d list crapsack of a villain. We got a kilgrave that was as powerful as loki. Part of the reason the show worked so well is that it did have kilgrave as so amazing. Thank goodness he was.

[Martell Spy]

Also, I don't want to have seen a d list crapsack of a villain. We got a kilgrave that was as powerful as loki. Part of the reason the show worked so well is that it did have kilgrave as so amazing. Thank goodness he was.

 

Power wise yes. But just as important are the weaknesses they gave him. And his fixation was a very important one of those weaknesses, along with his ego, and his life experience of never really being challenged by anyone. Oh, also his general lack of ambition means he has no real followers, just slaves. Also, there's the general scarcity of people with "talents" or talents of his magnitude. There may be no one in the entire huge city that can beat him, if he's playing it smart, short of the entire government, Shield, or the Avengers getting a line on him. One of the scariest things about him is no one even believes he exists when victims speak of what happened to them.

He has some clever tricks and precautions, but he took way more chances than he needed to given his powers. For example, if he really was set on winning, he could go hide in Boston, and send endless numbers of tools on a plane ride over. He could also make more use of things like fires and bombs, although that may eventually lead to bad attention that would end him. He can do more in person, but it exposes him more than he really needs to against nearly all opponents he may go after. He's also pretty easy to appease, such as the Trish apology working.

But he too is damaged and thus has weaknesses, like pretty much all important or semi important characters on the show. It fits with the major theme, and it's one the best parts of the show to me. And of course it'd be pretty awful if he killed Jessica, Luke, and Daredevil, enslaved Trish, and then they ended the shows, or went on to a Kilgrave spinoff series.

[Kalbear]

Well, yeah to all of that. I'm just saying kilgrave in the comics wasn't very special or interesting. Kilgrave here totally was, in his powers, in his backstory, in his character, and in his motivations.

[The Anti-Targ]

Damnit! Why did they have to make it a virus? I mean that is epidemiologically stupid. Sure they can make it that they used a virus to change him. But that it's the virus that is controlling people? Why couldn't it be a pheromone? At least that IS something which is an airborne substance that has an acute effect on behaviour. The first really disappointing thing about this show, bad pseudoscience.

Does the comic lore explain how his powers work? Is it as lame, or is it less lame?

Episode 11 tonight.

[Myshkin]

While I too had problems with the writing, I think the argument that the show should have stuck closer to the comic is a non-starter. I have never read, nor plan the read the comic. I suspect that the majority of viewers are in the same boat as me in that regard. Considering that comic book logic doesn't translate well when brought to a different medium and a wider audience the showrunners had every reason to change some things around. And frankly the Purple Man of the comics doesn't sound anywhere near as compelling as the Kilgrave of the show. As regards Jessica's rape; if it had been revealed that Kilgrave hadn't raped her it would have been a complete cop out. It would have been like saying,"look she was basically raped, so we can play around with the idea of PTSD, but with none of the icky social stigma. Don't worry she's still pure". It would have been an offensive disaster. 

[The Wolves]

So I finished it and no surprise but I loved it!! 

Killgrave tho terrifying had his amusing moments like telling everyone to shut up in the restaurant, getting mad at the detective for interrupting his deceleration of love with his cell phone and asking Luke if he ruined any chance he had with Jessica lol, my fav Killgrave moments. 

Trish and Jessica's relationship was perfect and I loved Trishe trying to help at every chance her and Jessica's take down of Simpson was on point. Speaking of Simpson I'm trying to find it in me to be sympathetic because he was a good person trying to help and look what he is now but his and Trish's relationship went really dark and scary really fast and I fear for Trish. 

Luke Cage was great I'm really looking forward to his series. 

I loved the side characters so far Marvel's Netflix background characters are really well writen and interesting and Jessica Jones delivered. I loved loved LOVED Malcome, Jeri, etc..... just really great characters. 

I hope we get another season. 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Also, I don't want to have seen a d list crapsack of a villain. We got a kilgrave that was as powerful as loki. Part of the reason the show worked so well is that it did have kilgrave as so amazing. Thank goodness he was.

Honestly, I feel like that is basically at the heart of Purple Man's characterization. He's always been A-list in terms of how powerful he is, but he never has an A-listers plans or motivations. And he typically gets beat by B-list heroes. The only time he's ever involved in a Big Scheme is when he's used by A-List guys like Doom or Baron Zemo. He always struck me as the street level heroes (Daredevil/Iron Fist/Jessica Jones) version of Molecule Man. 

[Red Tiger]

Manhole nailed it. Kilgrave has always been a petty man with great powers, best thing he did was get captured and used by Doom. He's never lived up to his potential as a villain because.....he is a very, very weak (and stupid) man at his core.

[briantw]

The problem with sticking close to the comics is that the comics were written with fifty years of history behind them, whereas the show is essentially starting from scratch and with a limited backstory that it can engage with.  The Alias comics absolutely relied upon the years worth of backstory to tell the original tale of Jessica Jones.  The show doesn't have that luxury, so they altered a ton of things by necessity.

Honestly, that's one reason I'm kind of disappointed they killed Purple Man.  He was starting to become more like his comic book character near the end of the series and it would have been nice if they had had the option to bring him back, either in Jessica Jones or other Netflix shows.  Granted, maybe they'll just resurrect him, but it will feel cheaper than if they had just left him alive.