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Was Rhaegar at ToJ?


essosi watch

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I know I'm going to sound like a feeblewit. Bear with me please. In the light of the Mance is Rhaegar Theory, is it possible that Rhaegar was present at Tower of Joy? I mean, when Ned Stark arrived with his six companions, what if the Kingsguards were there not because of Jon or Lyanna? What if they were actually guarding Rhaegar? If you think about it a minute, if Rhaegar somehow survived The Battle of Trident, where would he go first? Maybe he was wounded and he thought he would't live much longer. He most likely knew that Lyanna is pregnant, so... what if he just wanted to be with her again, maybe one last time? Perhaps Ned Stark even knew (or at least suspected) that Rhaegar survived the battle and was looking for him and for Lyanna, of course (or trying to find out if he really died). He suspected they are in Dorne. To get there, he had to pass the Tower of Joy because it was the only way to get there. And then, surprise! The three members of the Kingsguard. As someone said, Ned wasn't that stupid and realized what their presence means. A member of royal family. Guess who. Aerys, Elia, Rhaenys, Aegon... killed, for sure. Rhaella and Viserys... fled, for sure. And then we have the crown prince. Yeah, we saw how Robert's warhammer hit the black armor and the chest beneath it. No more, no less. So, Ned asked a few carefully worded questions. The question about the King, they said they weren't there, otherwise Aerys would yet sit the throne. Clearly he does not anymore. But the Trident... Woe to the usurper, if they were there. Nothing about the prince, how he would yet command his men or something. Not that clear he doesn't anymore. What about Storm's End? All those guys bent the knee.. Our knees do not bend easily. Our new king is not that easy to kill. Though maybe wounded, at that point, Rhaegar still lived. We had to be with him. Then or now. We swore a vow. The question about the Queen and prince Viserys, similar answer. We are the Kingsguard. We guard the king in the first place. Not queen, not heir, not usurper. Guess who is the king now when Aerys is dead. Of course they had to fight Ned, even if they knew he just wanted to see his sister. They could not allow Usurper's close friend anywhere near their (probably weakened and wounded) king. One more thing. People speculate a lot if Jon could be legitimate son of RT and discuss if Rhaegar secretly married Lyanna and Targaryen polygamy and whatnot. Well, if he was still alive at the Tower of Joy when Ned got there, he could marry Lyanna openly because at that point, poor Elia was already dead. They could even marry right there, on the spot. And Rhaegar, freshly re-married, named the place The Tower of Joy. Few days later, his new wife gave birth to his trueborn son. What do you guys think? Is it at least remotedly possible? Thanks for your opinions, I always enjoy reading them.

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sorry, but rhaegar's chest was crushed by the war-hammer and then his body was eaten by crows (based on jaime) and burned by fire (based on GRRM). 

So, no, he would never have chance to go back to TOJ alive. 

But you can claim that Ned possibly brought his ashes to TOJ and gave it to Lyanna as a gift. 

(although very slim)

 

By the way, 

so you mean if he was alive, his first priority was to run back to TOJ to get freshly remarried and name the tower of TOJ and happily watch how lyanna birth his new true born son? 

Not to go back to KL to try to save lives of his son, his daughter, his wife, his mother, his father, his brother and his unborn sister? 

Be careful, this rhaegar in your description is not even a normal human being. 

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Rheagar is dead. I am convinced of that even though he had rubbies on his armor. Now, I think Rheagar set up the love nest at the Tower of Joy so he was certainly there for a time before, ironically, he left his beloved to take command of the Royal Army so that he could kill his beloved's older brother, her betrothed and other leaders fighting to overthrow his lunatic father who murdered the rest of his sweet love Lyanna's family, except her kid brother Benjen of course. What a guy.

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No. Aside from Mance=Rhaegar being completely unsupported fanfiction, Ned clearly remembers Rhaegar as dead - when Ned arrived at the spot where Rhaegar and Robert were duelling, Rhaegar was lying dead in the stream and men were looking for the rubies from his armour. 

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I don't claim that Rhaegar is necessarily alive.
I was just thinking, hypothetically, IF the M=R theory was true, would it be possible that Ned encountered RT at the Tower of Joy? 

I'm aware of that SSM where GRRM said Rhaegar was cremated.
Also Ned reminiscing how Rhaegar lay dead in the stream while soldiers of both armies scrambled for rubies in the water, that's one strong counterargument for me. IIRC Cersei, seeing Aurane Waters first time, thinks that Rhaegar stood up from ashes, another little side notion pointing at Rhaegar's cremacy. I'm fully aware of all those arguments against M=R theory.
So are the defenders of it but they still have their arguments to explain it. 
I'm not a defender of this theory, I was just curious, IF Rhaegar was somehow still alive, Mance or whoever, if it was technically possible for him to be present at the Tower of Joy when Ned was there. Hypothetically. Possible or not?

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I don't claim that Rhaegar is necessarily alive.
I was just thinking, hypothetically, IF the M=R theory was true, would it be possible that Ned encountered RT at the Tower of Joy? 

I'm aware of that SSM where GRRM said Rhaegar was cremated.
Also Ned reminiscing how Rhaegar lay dead in the stream while soldiers of both armies scrambled for rubies in the water, that's one strong counterargument for me. IIRC Cersei, seeing Aurane Waters first time, thinks that Rhaegar stood up from ashes, another little side notion pointing at Rhaegar's cremacy. I'm fully aware of all those arguments against M=R theory.
So are the defenders of it but they still have their arguments to explain it. 
I'm not a defender of this theory, I was just curious, IF Rhaegar was somehow still alive, Mance or whoever, if it was technically possible for him to be present at the Tower of Joy when Ned was there. Hypothetically. Possible or not?

It's not possible for the simple fact that he is, and was at that time, dead. But sure, if he somehow miraculously didn't die (which he did) then I suppose it's possible that he could have sneaked his very recognizable face through two armies, across ~1200 miles (as the crow flies) with no provisions, and all the way to the Tower of Joy while severely injured from a warhammer to the chest. Then, upon arrival, he inexplicably doesn't request medical attention or notify his Kingsguard who, consequently, acknowledge to Ned & Co that Rhaegar is in fact dead.

So while it might be "possible", it's not at all realistic.

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Essosi Watch, your OP is possible. At this point, I don't think it highly probable. But, this is a series that has already presented us some truly unbelievable aspects of itself, even from an in universe point of view. There's dragons, direwolves, Others, CotF, magic, sorcery, faceless men, glamours, skinchangers, greenseers, people alive thought to be dead, people pretending to be someone else, shady identities, etc. That said, it's not foolish of you to question any possibilities that you may come up with, and there are enough precedents of such that warrant speculation and consideration. I think that was absolutely purposefully done by the author, so don't feel silly about it. I think it is as rediculous as it is redundant, though, the manner in which people reply to such topics. They speak ever so matter of factly about subjects and possibilities, it was like they wrote the books themselves or got early copies of the next two unfinished books or somehow peered directly into the mind of Martin. One of the few things surrounding this story that I am absolutely positively sure about is that none of that is true. So, if I were you, I would take negative feedback and ignore it, until the conclusion of the books, and with that, hopefully the answers to your questions. And if somehow you turned out to be correct, don't hesitate to get on these forums and bombastically rub it in the faces of your detractors.

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Thank you for your replies, Beautiful Bloody Sword (cool username btw) and Red Man Racey,
I wanted to know if some canon facts excluding "Rhaegar is dead" would make it impossible and I'm glad you (more or less sarcastically) confirmed it would be technically possible. 
I'm still not decided what to believe regarding RT for obvious lack of information about him. Maybe that's why he's so interesting character, simply because we don't know much about him.  I like to speculate about him and his motivations. He is the hardest to understand for me. His acts are not quite consistent with what we know about him from other characters. Someone (Barristan Selmy?) said that nobody ever truly knew Rhaegar. I tend to think we'll learn he was right and the crown prince in question, exposed to eyes of all Westeros, was in fact not what he looked like and what people took him for. 

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