Bringing the Iron Islands into the fold.

[Ser Vampyr]

How would you as either Lord/Lady Paramount of the Iron Islands or King/Queen of the Seven Kindoms make the Iron Islands and Ironborn apart of the Kindom and to remove their "reaving and pillaging" society to make them a proper and fully functioning loyal vassal of the Iron throne. While  also getting the other kindoms, especially the North and Riverlands to have a somewhat diplomatic and non-hostile relationship with the Ironborn.

 

[Protagoras]

Why would I want to if I was lord Paramount of the Iron Islands?

I see few benefits with changing their traditional society to adapt to the mainland. The Ironborn have little wealth and little land - if I would do as you say the economy would be even worse. I suppose I could trade the traditions for more land, but would that be a deal Westeros would take? 

As king - sure, I guess I could beat them until they stop but they won´t be a productive region afterwards (even less than today). 

What the Ironborn needs to do is the following:

1. Learn how to sail west to plunder and raid some softer targets.

2. Be more politically deft and "sell" their fleet to the winner in a conflict for land from the loser. 

 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

For once I agree with what Tywin would had done. Kill the adults and give the children to be fostered elsewhere when Iisles will be left in ruins.

[Ser Vampyr]

Why would I want to if I was lord Paramount of the Iron Islands?

I see few benefits with changing their traditional society to adapt to the mainland. The Ironborn have little wealth and little land - if I would do as you say the economy would be even worse. I suppose I could trade the traditions for more land, but would that be a deal Westeros would take? 

As king - sure, I guess I could beat them until they stop but they won´t be a productive region afterwards (even less than today). 

What the Ironborn needs to do is the following:

1. Learn how to sail west to plunder and raid some softer targets.

2. Be more politically deft and "sell" their fleet to the winner in a conflict for land from the loser. 

 

1. Didn't Asha Greyjoy move away from reaving and settle and farm the lands im sure if the iron throne can give land to the nightswatch they can give a small potion of land for the iron born if they stoped raiding. ehich could aid the iron born with alliances and if they became traders and exploreors instead or raiders it could bring in some good revenue for the crown.

2. Is there not some diplomatic solution to the ironborn without causing a rebellion and cause further hostility

 

[Protagoras]

My interpretation of Asha was that she wanted to end a war with few material gains. 

In general, Asha due to being a woman has less leeway in making cultural reforms even if she becomes queen/lady of the Iron Islands. Push too many reforms at once and it will backfire (ask Jon Snow for details). The Shrike says hi.

Giving land to the Ironborn is the likeliest way to make them more like the rest of Westeros in the long run,  but who will. People are not exactly lining up today to give things to the Somali pirates or Somalia. 

I have a hard time seeing a diplomatic solution working.

[Good Guy Garlan]

^ Well, Ned wanted to populate the Gift, and the Ironborn wanted land. Seems to me an arrangement could have been made, somehow.

[Floki of the Ironborn]

^ Well, Ned wanted to populate the Gift, and the Ironborn wanted land. Seems to me an arrangement could have been made, somehow.

But that would mean the Ironborn bowing to either Ned Stark or the Night's Watch. Neither of which they'd do.

[Ser Vampyr]

But that would mean the Ironborn bowing to either Ned Stark or the Night's Watch. Neither of which they'd do.

what if an arragment was met inwhich the north gets the gift and ironborn recieve cape kracken or something to that effect. im pretty sure in the world book? they say the people of cape kracken share more blood with the ironborn and in this series blood means everything.

[TimJames]

My plan to bring The Iron Islands into The Fold

Step 1: Take a son from every major Ironborn House as a "ward" (read hostage). This should buy their behavior. 

Step 2: Offer tax breaks to the smaller, marginalized Ironborn houses such as House Codd, ensuring I have allies.

Step 3: Invite Westerosi Knights, Septons, Maesters, and other scholars to The Iron Isles. 

Step 4: Convert to The Faith of The Seven. If The Faith Militant exists, then I'll ask them to establish a chapter house in my land.

Step 5: Raise my "wards" in The Faith of The Seven, offer one year tax breaks to any Lord who converts to The Seven, and send out Septons to preach to The Smallfolk.

Step 6: I'll pass two laws. First, any Lord Reaver's son who convert's to The Seven becomes first in the line of inheritance. Second, any thrall or salt wife who converts to The Seven becomes free. 

Step 7: When some asshole Drowned Man like Shrike tries leading a rebellion against me, I'll send ravens to The Riverlands, The Westerlands, to The High Septon, and to The King on The Iron Throne (if there is an Iron Throne) requesting help. If none of them respond, I'll hire a few big sellsword companies (I can borrow what money I need from The Iron Bank).

Step 8: If I successfully crush the rebellion, I'll have Shrike beheaded and executed ON LAND (no drowned halls for you). I'll revoke the titles of any defeated rebel lords, and I'll hand them over to Seven-Worshiping Knights and to Former Thralls who worship The Seven.

Step 9: To get the economy going (and repay any debts I might have), I'll start encouraging mining and metallurgy. I'll want to make The Ironborn a race of Steel Smiths, Shipwrights, Miners, and non-reavers. 

Step 10: Once at least a third of The Iron Island's civilian population (or at least 60% of The Iron Island's nobility) is converted to The Faith of The Seven, I'll declare it the official religion of The Iron Islands. All Drowned Gods will be given an ultimatum: convert to The Seven and become Septons, or face a land-execution. 

Step 11: Once The Iron Islands are successfully converted, I'll construct a Great Sept in Lordsport. One to dwarf even Baelor Sept in Kings Landing. It will be called The Great Sept of Harmund (in honor of an Ironborn Reaver who tried to reform The Iron Islanders and was mutilated and murdered for it), and in front of it shall be a giant marble statue of Harmund III holding a copy of The Seven Pointed Star. 

Step 12: This is the most important step. I will raise my sons to be worshipers of The Sevenand I will arrange for them marriages to the daughters of noble houses from The Greenlands. The purpose of this is to ensure none of my sons reverse my reforms. 

[Wavey Sauce]

repeat what Robert did. Except this time remove every single Greyjoy

[Fat Mac]

We see from the Quellon Greyjoys of the world that not all Ironborn are loony "old way" nutbags. But, you need a lord like that to get anything done.

[Ser Frasier of House Crane]

After the Greyjoy Rebellion, take the heir from each of the great ironborn houses and foster them with great lords, as Ned did with Theon. Wed them to greenlander brides. When they return to take their fathers' seats, they have at least mainland influence at home. Some might be more converted than others (see Baelor Blacktyde), but you'll have a good start. The "problem" ironborn (i.e. Euron Greyjoy, Aeron Greyjoy) you keep a close eye on, and if one or more bridle, heads, spikes, walls.

[Good Guy Garlan]

We see from the Quellon Greyjoys of the world that not all Ironborn are loony "old way" nutbags. But, you need a lord like that to get anything done.

Yeah, Quellon was on the right track. Honestly, if Quellon had survived and Balon, Euron, Aeron, Rodrik and Maron had died instead, things on the Islands would've been better.

[FC_Lymond]

After the Greyjoy Rebellion, take the heir from each of the great ironborn houses and foster them with great lords, as Ned did with Theon. Wed them to greenlander brides. When they return to take their fathers' seats, they have at least mainland influence at home. Some might be more converted than others (see Baelor Blacktyde), but you'll have a good start. The "problem" ironborn (i.e. Euron Greyjoy, Aeron Greyjoy) you keep a close eye on, and if one or more bridle, heads, spikes, walls.

When they return, they won't get their father's seats.  That's pretty much the point.  Most of these plans won't get anywhere.

[Ser Frasier of House Crane]

When they return, they won't get their father's seats.  That's pretty much the point.  Most of these plans won't get anywhere.

Why wouldn't they? Baelor Blacktyde did. Theon would have.

[Protagoras]

Why wouldn't they? Baelor Blacktyde did. Theon would have.

The same reason Sansa was skipped in a will and the relatives from Vale never would have gotten Winterfell. In fact, a suspicion about foreign cultural influence is enough to make sure someone won´t win a election today or is at least seen as a strong argument in some circles. No one wants an "Aquaman" for themselves but everyone wants everyone else to have one. 

If you don´t represent the culture you are supposed to lead you will have a far harder time doing it. In fact, if you have been fostered by greenlanders, it´s important to make a point of how much of a traditionalist you are.

What you need is a reform-willing Ironborn from the start, not one who looks like someone elses pawn. 

[Ser Frasier of House Crane]

The same reason Sansa was skipped in a will and the relatives from Vale never would have gotten Winterfell. In fact, a suspicion about foreign cultural influence is enough to make sure someone won´t win a election today or is at least seen as a strong argument in some circles. No one wants an "Aquaman" for themselves but everyone wants everyone else to have one. 

If you don´t represent the culture you are supposed to lead you will have a far harder time doing it. In fact, if you have been fostered by greenlanders, it´s important to make a point of how much of a traditionalist you are.

What you need is a reform-willing Ironborn from the start, not one who looks like someone elses pawn. 

Wasn't Sansa skipped in the will because she was wed to the active enemy of the Starks? If they weren't at war with the Lannisters, theoretically, a match between those two houses wouldn't be scoffed at. The ironborn may bridle a bit, but if it comes down to losing your lordship because of your heir being unsuited because of his "greenlander wife," I don't see all of the ironborn lords capitulating like that. Especially considering they all just got their asses kicked. They either stick with the program or they die.

[Protagoras]

Wasn't Sansa skipped in the will because she was wed to the active enemy of the Starks? If they weren't at war with the Lannisters, theoretically, a match between those two houses wouldn't be scoffed at. The ironborn may bridle a bit, but if it comes down to losing your lordship because of your heir being unsuited because of his "greenlander wife," I don't see all of the ironborn lords capitulating like that. Especially considering they all just got their asses kicked. They either stick with the program or they die.

Then the program will only hold as long as the mainland are willing to put pressure on them. When the external threat end (In this case - 10 years) all willingness to reform will end and instead you will see powerful and popular counter-reforms. Soon, it will all be undone.

There is a reason we see on the Islands a more traditionbased thinking with a new rebellion as well as a kingsmout later. 

It simply doesn´t work. 

[aryagonnakill#2]

Favorable trade deals, and a canal either from Seaguard to the Twins or connecting the weeping water to the Bite so that the Iron Isles can be part of a circular trade route.  Arrange for the Ironborn to transport food from the Reach to the North in winter in exchange for furs, and wood from the North to the south in Summer in exchange for wine and other exotic goods.  They can also use the wood themselves to build ships, they could possibly even sell ships if they were good at producing them, they could produce them cheaper than Lannisport or Oldtown.

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

Let's assume we are talking after Balon's Rebellion and Robert as King.

I take Balon's head, and send Theon to the Wall. I fold the Iron Islands into the North, making Ned responsible for them.

Next I name Jorah Mormont as lord of Pyke (he impressed me during the war) and arrange a marriage between Jorah and Ashra.

I have Ned and Jorah meet with all of the Lords of the Iron Islands, those that swear fealty to King Robert, and to Ned Stark receive secondary lands and holds in the North to promote agriculture and timber (possibly in the gift?).

Any that are not co-operating I remove (either death or the Black) and give their holds to second sons of loyal Northern Bannermen.

I then make a deal with Jorah and Ned, that the the Iron Islands will build a Northern/ Western fleet that the Crown will pay half of (the North will pay the other half) as well as buy a limited number of ships for the Royal fleet in King's Landing. I encourage Ned to put half of the Fleet out of White Harbor to protect both sides and to keep the Iron Islands from having too much power.

This should help the Iron Islands start to transform from pirates to ship builders.