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Assuming R+L=J, has Tyrion worked out Jon's parentage?


Free folk Daemon

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Hey all, do you think that Tyrion has worked out Jon's parentage? When I read this:

"Don't look at me that way, bastard. I know your secret. You've dreamt the same kind of dreams."

"No," Jon Snow, said, horrified. "I wouldn't ..."

(chapter 13, Tyrion II, AGOT)

I thought that, obviously, he was referring directly to dragon dreams, but also to the secret of Jon's Targaryen father. Now, Tyrion could be only teasing Jon that he may also have dreamt of dragons, and that in itself is not an indication of Targaryen or Old Valyrian blood, but to me, there is something in the way GRRM includes "bastard", "secret" and an indirect reference to dragons in Tyrion's line and has Jon's reaction being one of horror and, in my view, denial, that adds more to this part of their conversation than Jon simply being horrified that Tyrion has had dreams of riding a dragon and burning his father and sister. What did you make of this conversation? Also, if anyone has any Tyrion quotes from elsewhere in the books which may point to the idea that he has guessed who Jon's parents are, please fire them over (the dragons would love that...).

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Tyrion is referring to dreams about hurting his family. George is referring Jon's dragon dreams.

Kinda like in Maester Aemon's 'love is the death of duty' speech when he says "And what is duty against the feel of a newborn son in your arms," it's actually George talking about Ned and Jon.

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I think you may be reading too much into this one. Tyrion is just talking about the hidden desire of Jon to be a lord, which would only come about to the detriment of his family members. How could Tyrion know. All of the people who were at the Tower of Joy are dead with exception of Ned & Howland Reed. Ned wouldn't tell Tyrion. So unless Tyrion came upon Reed on his way up To Winterfell when and the Reed actually told him. While this would be a GRRM thing to do, there's no evidence of it so far.

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Thanks, yeah, I see that I might have interpreted Tyrion's line before remembering the context. I agree that he wouldn't have thought the quote below if he had guessed that Jon is Rhaegar and Lyanna's son, and Tyrion seems pretty honest with himself in what he is thinking, hence telling Jon about his dreams about harming Tywin and Cersei.

I am going to say no. He states that who ever was his mother was she left none of her in him.  I don't think he even has a thought that Jon's mother is/could be Lyanna.

Nope.

"The boy absorbed all that in silence. He had the Stark face if not the name: long, solemn, guarded, a face that gave nothing away. Whoever his mother had been, she had left little of herself in her son." -Tyrion, AGOT

 

If he knew , he wouldn't have thought this.

I agree with the link to Aemon's speech.

Tyrion is referring to dreams about hurting his family. George is referring Jon's dragon dreams.

Kinda like in Maester Aemon's 'love is the death of duty' speech when he says "And what is duty against the feel of a newborn son in your arms," it's actually George talking about Ned and Jon.

Which book is it in?

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Tyrion is referring to dreams about hurting his family. George is referring Jon's dragon dreams.

Kinda like in Maester Aemon's 'love is the death of duty' speech when he says "And what is duty against the feel of a newborn son in your arms," it's actually George talking about Ned and Jon.

Found it (chapter 60, Jon VIII, AGOT). Thanks Victarion!

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I think most people suspect that Jon is Lyanna's daughter, there was a thread before the reset that pointed out all the commonly-known facts that any well-connected noble would be aware of that strongly hint as to his parentage.  Someone wrote a really funny scene where Howland Reed is announcing that Jon is really a Targaryan and everybody is like "Yeah, we kind of suspected this and knew it when he was sent to the Wall at 14".

 

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Thanks Arya, any thoughts? Like to hear your theory on this.

Hard to say, don't have much to go on.  Many of the clues that Aegon is fake are from Tyrions interactions with Ilyrio and the time spent at his mansion, so Tyrion may at least suspect it.  He did tell him he looked good for a dead boy, possibly suggesting he didn't buy it.

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